Next Cornell basketball coach

[phillysportsfan]

Good comments from Wrobo and Peck in the Ithaca journal. Got to respect Peck for immediately saying none of team is leaving. Next year is going to be an exciting year, a lot of unknowns in a league with no clear favorite except maybe Princeton a slight favorite over Harvard.



The returning players, moreso than anyone else, feel that whoever Andy Noel tabs as Donahue's replacement is walking into an excellent situation. Freshman Errick Peck, one of the key building blocks for the future, said the underclassmen are committed to continuing what the departing senior class of eight has helped create. They believe the talent is already in place, regardless of what the next year's crop of freshmen (which has yet to be announced), will bring.

"I think coaching matters, don't get me wrong, but our bond and what we've done both on and off the court will trump whatever decision, you know, that (is made)," Peck said. "We're a good enough unit, and as a whole we'll be fine next year. I don't think anybody's leaving. Actually, I can guarantee no one's leaving."

Both Peck and Chris Wroblewski stressed that the team would like a coach who understood how this current group plays. Next year's team is going to be different than the 2009-10 brand: less big, more athletic. But there's talent to work with.

"We're going to be a really good team. A lot of people are sleeping on us, especially since our coach left," Peck said. "Honestly I think, in my eyes, we're the favorite to win it. We have a lot of players coming back, a lot of players that people haven't seen come off the bench because we weren't able to get a chance to play."

Wroblewski said Noel should look for someone like Donahue.

"To me, I have some friends on other teams," Wroblewski said. "I get a unique perspective what they tell me, how they interact with their coach, and to tell you the truth, what they go through seems ... not enjoyable. The coach is basically all business on the floor, off the floor. They don't have a connection with him and what's unique with coach Donahue is you're able to talk sports with him. He's a big Philly fan and you get to know him on a personal level, and he helps you out with jobs, anything he can.

[phillysportsfan]

http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/25/how-cornell-got-so-good/

Interesting two possible head coaching candidates, Fortier and Metz were the major keys to recruiting our current senior class.




One of the final contributions Paul Fortier made as a volunteer assistant coach at Cornell before leaving for Seattle was passing on a recruiting tip about the son of an N.B.A. coach who was looking at Ivy League colleges.

Fortier got the tip from Tom Newell, the son of the former Cal coach Pete Newell, and a friend of Randy Wittman.

 But when Fortier brought Cornell's coach, Steve Donahue, to see Ryan Wittman play, Donahue did not see a critical building block in his program. He saw rejection.

 "We're not going to be able to get him," Fortier recalled Donahue telling him.

 Fortier left for Washington, his alma mater, a few weeks later. But he told Izzi Metz, then a Cornell assistant, "Izzi, keep recruiting him."

 Metz is now the coach at Hobart College, just down the New York State Thruway from here. He had a hand in recruiting a good chunk of the six players who have been with this senior class all four years. (Two players, Jeff Foote and Andre Wilkins, were later added by transfer.)

 Metz helped recruit Jon Jaques and Geoff Reeves, and helped close the deal on Wittman. He said there were two common denominators in Cornell's senior class.

[billhoward]

Nice article on what mid-majors will, won't (or can't) pay coaches. Story starts about Butler but bulk of it relates to how making a coach highly paid affects the core of the university: e.g. what you pay someone who's put a module on Mars vs. someone who's won 29 games. http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2010/04/07/coaches

[Al DeFlorio]

Nice article on what mid-majors will, won't (or can't) pay coaches. Story starts about Butler but bulk of it relates to how making a coach highly paid affects the core of the university: e.g. what you pay someone who's put a module on Mars vs. someone who's won 29 games. http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2010/04/07/coaches

I have to say I'm a bit put off by this comment from Andy Noel:  

He [Noel] noted that Cornell never had the opportunity to make a counteroffer as Donahue never provided Cornell officials with details of Boston College's offer.

[Jordan 04]

Nice article on what mid-majors will, won't (or can't) pay coaches. Story starts about Butler but bulk of it relates to how making a coach highly paid affects the core of the university: e.g. what you pay someone who's put a module on Mars vs. someone who's won 29 games. http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2010/04/07/coaches

I have to say I'm a bit put off by this comment from Andy Noel:  

He [Noel] noted that Cornell never had the opportunity to make a counteroffer as Donahue never provided Cornell officials with details of Boston College's offer.

Put off by the fact that he would mention it, or put off by the fact that Donahue would do that?  If the latter, I'm sure Donahue and Noel had discussions on the parameters of what Cornell would be able to offer. Perfectly understandable of him to jump at his "home run" offer;

[Chris '03]

Nice article on what mid-majors will, won't (or can't) pay coaches. Story starts about Butler but bulk of it relates to how making a coach highly paid affects the core of the university: e.g. what you pay someone who's put a module on Mars vs. someone who's won 29 games. http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2010/04/07/coaches

I have to say I'm a bit put off by this comment from Andy Noel:  

He [Noel] noted that Cornell never had the opportunity to make a counteroffer as Donahue never provided Cornell officials with details of Boston College's offer.

Unless the counter was, "Cornell is moving to the Big East and offering scholarships next year," I'm not sure it would have made a difference.

[Robb]

Nice article on what mid-majors will, won't (or can't) pay coaches. Story starts about Butler but bulk of it relates to how making a coach highly paid affects the core of the university: e.g. what you pay someone who's put a module on Mars vs. someone who's won 29 games. http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2010/04/07/coaches

I have to say I'm a bit put off by this comment from Andy Noel:  

He [Noel] noted that Cornell never had the opportunity to make a counteroffer as Donahue never provided Cornell officials with details of Boston College's offer.

Put off by the fact that he would mention it, or put off by the fact that Donahue would do that?  If the latter, I'm sure Donahue and Noel had discussions on the parameters of what Cornell would be able to offer. Perfectly understandable of him to jump at his "home run" offer;

I agree.  I've left 4 jobs in my career, all under my own terms, and I've never bothered to give my previous employer a chance to counteroffer.  By the time things have progressed that far:

1) My mind is basically already made up anyway,
2) I already have a good idea of what my current employer can offer, and
3) I feel like going through that would somewhat poison the relationship with my current employer even if I decided to stay - I think they would resent the fact that I was shopping around.

I think the only situation where I would ask for a counteroffer is if my primary objective was to be promoted within the company in the first place, in which case I could see using leverage of another offer to achieve that.  That doesn't really apply to Donohue's case, though.

[Al DeFlorio]

Nice article on what mid-majors will, won't (or can't) pay coaches. Story starts about Butler but bulk of it relates to how making a coach highly paid affects the core of the university: e.g. what you pay someone who's put a module on Mars vs. someone who's won 29 games. http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2010/04/07/coaches

I have to say I'm a bit put off by this comment from Andy Noel:  

He [Noel] noted that Cornell never had the opportunity to make a counteroffer as Donahue never provided Cornell officials with details of Boston College's offer.

Put off by the fact that he would mention it, or put off by the fact that Donahue would do that?  If the latter, I'm sure Donahue and Noel had discussions on the parameters of what Cornell would be able to offer. Perfectly understandable of him to jump at his "home run" offer;

I agree.  I've left 4 jobs in my career, all under my own terms, and I've never bothered to give my previous employer a chance to counteroffer.  By the time things have progressed that far:

1) My mind is basically already made up anyway,
2) I already have a good idea of what my current employer can offer, and
3) I feel like going through that would somewhat poison the relationship with my current employer even if I decided to stay - I think they would resent the fact that I was shopping around.

I think the only situation where I would ask for a counteroffer is if my primary objective was to be promoted within the company in the first place, in which case I could see using leverage of another offer to achieve that.  That doesn't really apply to Donohue's case, though.

I don't know what kind of jobs any of you have, but if it involves recruiting 18-20 high school kids to spend four years with you playing a sport representing your institution, I would hope you would feel a little less cold-blooded about walking away from them without at least describing to the institution the offer that was taking you away.  Particularly given the "patience" that your institution showed when the fruits of your labor were, to put it politely, not readily apparent for five or six years.  But, then again, perhaps you wouldn't.

[Trotsky]

I think the only situation where I would ask for a counteroffer is if my primary objective was to be promoted within the company in the first place, in which case I could see using leverage of another offer to achieve that.  That doesn't really apply to Donohue's case, though.

Right -- moving out (or threatening to) in order to move up, and there was no "up" for Donohue at Cornell.  I don't think your point 3 was really applicable in this case either, though -- it was certainly no secret that he was shopping around, and there aren't the (deliberately fostered in order to depress wage movement ahem) negative connotations for his position that there are for worker bees.

[billhoward]

In the real business world, there's opinion that you never (well, almost) make a counteroffer on account of the guy's foot is out the door anyway.

I can't get too worked up over the "Did Steve keep Andy apprised?" discussion because they both knew that the kinds of offers Donahue would get would vault him past David Skorton (who had a pretty good year, too, give or take the P&L statement) and Cornell just couldn't, nor wouldn't, match them. The lowest offer was probably 2, 2-1/2 times what he was making now.

Hockey season's over earlier than we (or Barry Melrose) thought, the lacrosse team hasn't yet shown us what it's capable of, Donahue isn't coming back, and we've got a chance to cry in our beer publicly wiht this forum.

[ugarte]

Nice article on what mid-majors will, won't (or can't) pay coaches. Story starts about Butler but bulk of it relates to how making a coach highly paid affects the core of the university: e.g. what you pay someone who's put a module on Mars vs. someone who's won 29 games. http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2010/04/07/coaches

I have to say I'm a bit put off by this comment from Andy Noel:  

He [Noel] noted that Cornell never had the opportunity to make a counteroffer as Donahue never provided Cornell officials with details of Boston College's offer.

Put off by the fact that he would mention it, or put off by the fact that Donahue would do that?  If the latter, I'm sure Donahue and Noel had discussions on the parameters of what Cornell would be able to offer. Perfectly understandable of him to jump at his "home run" offer;

I agree.  I've left 4 jobs in my career, all under my own terms, and I've never bothered to give my previous employer a chance to counteroffer.  By the time things have progressed that far:

1) My mind is basically already made up anyway,
2) I already have a good idea of what my current employer can offer, and
3) I feel like going through that would somewhat poison the relationship with my current employer even if I decided to stay - I think they would resent the fact that I was shopping around.

I think the only situation where I would ask for a counteroffer is if my primary objective was to be promoted within the company in the first place, in which case I could see using leverage of another offer to achieve that.  That doesn't really apply to Donohue's case, though.

I don't know what kind of jobs any of you have, but if it involves recruiting 18-20 high school kids to spend four years with you playing a sport representing your institution, I would hope you would feel a little less cold-blooded about walking away from them without at least describing to the institution the offer that was taking you away.  Particularly given the "patience" that your institution showed when the fruits of your labor were, to put it politely, not readily apparent for five or six years.  But, then again, perhaps you wouldn't.

Andy Noel's "loyalty through hard times" has really been overstated - both here and by Coach Donahue himself. It makes for a good story but the truth is that Donahue earned that loyalty by improving the on-court performance of the team. The team sucked when he started, but it sucked with Scott Thompson's players.

The arc of Cornell's placement in the standings (since OOC record may vary because of SOS) in Donahue's 8 years was t7-t7-t5-t5-2-3-3-1-1-1. The league wins went 3-2-4-6-8-8-9-14-11-13. Keep in mind, most of those years, you could count on losing 4 games to Penn/Princeton. Those patterns reflect a guy that is turning around a team; someone who you should stick with because the evidence bears it out not because you have faith in someone you think is a good guy.

It is clear that, with the graduation of Dale/Wittman/Foote (not to slight the other seniors), Cornell had peaked. Even if they win the Ivy League next year, they are going to take a step back nationally. This was the ideal time for Donahue to move on to a high-profile job and everybody knew it. Donahue didn't need to talk to Noel about the offers he was receiving from BC because they are both smart enough to know that Cornell can't - and even if it could, won't - match the ACC coaching salaries. I would be stunned if, after Donahue told Noel that he was taking the BC job, Noel indicated that he was upset that he didn't get an opportunity to match. The Cornell and BC coaching jobs are simply not on the same plane.

What would have kept Donahue at Cornell was a decision that he wanted to stay in a comfortable situation, at a level he knew he could succeed, for a career like Pete Carill. He had more ambition that that and he moved on. I am not offended in the slightest that he is enough of a realist to know that giving Cornell the opportunity to match would have been not a formality but a joke.

I wish him luck in Boston. He took down Princeton and Penn. Now it is time to take down Duke.

[Jim Hyla]

Andy Noel's "loyalty through hard times" has really been overstated - both here and by Coach Donahue himself. It makes for a good story but...

I am not offended in the slightest that he is enough of a realist to know that giving Cornell the opportunity to match would have been not a formality but a joke.

I wish him luck in Boston. He took down Princeton and Penn. Now it is time to take down Duke.

I don't know how to say it's been overstated when the guy almost broke down crying when he was saying it. I also don't know how to put together all that was being said with the fact that he was so actively looking. If he really felt that strongly about what Cornell and Noel did for him, the nice thing to do would have been to talk to Noel before leaving. I can't easily put together all the events.

Having said that, I don't expect to understand it, since I doubt we will ever really know what was said or what was really meant as opposed to what was said. My opinion of Donahue has been knocked down a half notch, however. What has transpired after the Sweet Sixteen seems like what you'd expect in any big time program. Donahue seemed to imply that wasn't how he was. But as I said, I doubt we'll ever know. Most of the time in these situations, each side says what they need to say to preserve their own position. It may be contrary to what the other side is saying, but no one argues the point or expects anything differently. Sad, but true.

edit: Does anybody know if he was at the celebration?

[ugarte]

Andy Noel's "loyalty through hard times" has really been overstated - both here and by Coach Donahue himself. It makes for a good story but...

I am not offended in the slightest that he is enough of a realist to know that giving Cornell the opportunity to match would have been not a formality but a joke.

I wish him luck in Boston. He took down Princeton and Penn. Now it is time to take down Duke.

I don't know how to say it's been overstated when the guy almost broke down crying when he was saying it. I also don't know how to put together all that was being said with the fact that he was so actively looking. If he really felt that strongly about what Cornell and Noel did for him, the nice thing to do would have been to talk to Noel before leaving. I can't easily put together all the events.

Having said that, I don't expect to understand it, since I doubt we will ever really know what was said or what was really meant as opposed to what was said. My opinion of Donahue has been knocked down a half notch, however. What has transpired after the Sweet Sixteen seems like what you'd expect in any big time program. Donahue seemed to imply that wasn't how he was. But as I said, I doubt we'll ever know. Most of the time in these situations, each side says what they need to say to preserve their own position. It may be contrary to what the other side is saying, but no one argues the point or expects anything differently. Sad, but true.

edit: Does anybody know if he was at the celebration?

I didn't mean to imply that Donahue wasn't sincere in his thanks to Noel, only that based on the evidence being accumulated, Noel would have been a fool to dump him. I'm sure that while losing in 2000-2002 he felt like the sword might drop at any moment - it is the sort of thing a guy with self-respect might think and that kind of fear probably acts as self-motivation to boot. But here has to be some grace period to turn around a moribund program and the team started improving about as quickly as one could have hoped.

What transpired after the Sweet 16 is that, after three years of being courted by teams that could pay him more, the RIGHT teams finally started calling. I don't think he played it coy at all. He told anyone who asked that he would leave for the right offer and even Andy Noel, when interviewed, seemed to indicate that Donahue was up-front with him in exactly the same way. He didn't make bullshit pronouncements about how he was going to retire at Cornell or that this job was the best job he could ever have. He said he'd leave "for a home run."

The job he was offered was for a reported $900K per year for seven years to coach at a big-city school, well-respected for its academics that competes at the top level of college sports. Sounds like a home run to me.

[phillysportsfan]

Andy Noel's "loyalty through hard times" has really been overstated - both here and by Coach Donahue himself. It makes for a good story but...

I am not offended in the slightest that he is enough of a realist to know that giving Cornell the opportunity to match would have been not a formality but a joke.

I wish him luck in Boston. He took down Princeton and Penn. Now it is time to take down Duke.

I don't know how to say it's been overstated when the guy almost broke down crying when he was saying it. I also don't know how to put together all that was being said with the fact that he was so actively looking. If he really felt that strongly about what Cornell and Noel did for him, the nice thing to do would have been to talk to Noel before leaving. I can't easily put together all the events.

Having said that, I don't expect to understand it, since I doubt we will ever really know what was said or what was really meant as opposed to what was said. My opinion of Donahue has been knocked down a half notch, however. What has transpired after the Sweet Sixteen seems like what you'd expect in any big time program. Donahue seemed to imply that wasn't how he was. But as I said, I doubt we'll ever know. Most of the time in these situations, each side says what they need to say to preserve their own position. It may be contrary to what the other side is saying, but no one argues the point or expects anything differently. Sad, but true.

edit: Does anybody know if he was at the celebration?

Donahue was not at the celebration. Noel didnt mention that he left either. Donahue probably did not want to be there as it would have taken attention away from the other teams present

[Robb]

Nice article on what mid-majors will, won't (or can't) pay coaches. Story starts about Butler but bulk of it relates to how making a coach highly paid affects the core of the university: e.g. what you pay someone who's put a module on Mars vs. someone who's won 29 games. http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2010/04/07/coaches

I have to say I'm a bit put off by this comment from Andy Noel:  

He [Noel] noted that Cornell never had the opportunity to make a counteroffer as Donahue never provided Cornell officials with details of Boston College's offer.

Put off by the fact that he would mention it, or put off by the fact that Donahue would do that?  If the latter, I'm sure Donahue and Noel had discussions on the parameters of what Cornell would be able to offer. Perfectly understandable of him to jump at his "home run" offer;

I agree.  I've left 4 jobs in my career, all under my own terms, and I've never bothered to give my previous employer a chance to counteroffer.  By the time things have progressed that far:

1) My mind is basically already made up anyway,
2) I already have a good idea of what my current employer can offer, and
3) I feel like going through that would somewhat poison the relationship with my current employer even if I decided to stay - I think they would resent the fact that I was shopping around.

I think the only situation where I would ask for a counteroffer is if my primary objective was to be promoted within the company in the first place, in which case I could see using leverage of another offer to achieve that.  That doesn't really apply to Donohue's case, though.

I don't know what kind of jobs any of you have, but if it involves recruiting 18-20 high school kids to spend four years with you playing a sport representing your institution, I would hope you would feel a little less cold-blooded about walking away from them without at least describing to the institution the offer that was taking you away.  Particularly given the "patience" that your institution showed when the fruits of your labor were, to put it politely, not readily apparent for five or six years.  But, then again, perhaps you wouldn't.

I didn't say I didn't describe the offers, now, did I?  Of course I did - and I always told them exactly why I was leaving.  Sometimes it was for the money, sometimes for the opportunity, sometimes for the girl I was following.  It's not like they just showed up to work one day and my desk was already cleaned out.

But thanks for assuming I'm a cold, heartless human being because I wanted to save my employer the trouble of putting together a counter offer I knew I wasn't going to accept.  ::doh::