WSJ Article 1/27/2010

jputterman24 · January 27, 2010, 08:13:04 AM

Article in the WSJ this morning about the importance of the cornell-harvard game this saturday. Nothing we didn't know, but nice to wake up to an article about cornell basketball...

http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB20001424052748703906204575027120134078234-lMyQjAyMTAwMDIwNzEyNDcyWj.html

Jordan 04 · January 27, 2010, 09:40:41 AM

Quote"I'd like to see a conference tournament," says Cornell coach Steve Donahue. "If you lose a couple of games, you don't have a chance to play for the championship. I don't think that's fair."

I found this to be an odd quote, which makes me wonder if Coach Donahue feels the pressure of expectations.

The regular season is the tournament. It seems much more fair to have the bid go to the winner of a 14-game season than it does to give it to the winner of a one-and-done crapshoot.

billhoward · January 27, 2010, 09:50:37 AM

A basketball tournament will bring publicity to the Ivy League and (?) add more games. But it benefits the second-best teams. Cornell is most likely to win the most league games this year and be the champ. A Harvard might finish 12-2 to Cornell's 13-1 but then get lucky in a playoff game. I see it happening eventually, as in lacrosse. Has that lacrosse playoff site been determined yet? I hope the league honchos have a short memory of how badly Cornell estimated refreshments consumed at that last NCAA regional in Schoellkopf. And this from Ivy school with a hotel school.

Al DeFlorio · January 27, 2010, 10:15:50 AM

Quote from: billhowardHas that lacrosse playoff site been determined yet?

Doesn't the top-seeded team host?

Chris '03 · January 27, 2010, 10:47:36 AM

Quote from: Al DeFlorio
Quote from: billhowardHas that lacrosse playoff site been determined yet?
Doesn't the top-seeded team host?

I believe that's the plan.

ugarte · January 27, 2010, 10:49:10 AM

Quote from: Jordan 04
Quote"I'd like to see a conference tournament," says Cornell coach Steve Donahue. "If you lose a couple of games, you don't have a chance to play for the championship. I don't think that's fair."

I found this to be an odd quote, which makes me wonder if Coach Donahue feels the pressure of expectations.

I think he is looking past this year. I assume he is confident that he can get the autobid for 2010 and wants a second bite at the apple in 2011 and beyond when the team won't be the favorite for the title every year. It is easy to advocate for a rule change that takes effect after your advantage under the current rules runs out.

I don't see the benefit of a tournament for getting an at-large bid. I think the more likely result of a tournament is that the regular season champion ends up playing a first round road game in the NIT.

billhoward · January 27, 2010, 11:36:13 AM

Quote from: Chris '03
Quote from: Al DeFlorio
Quote from: billhowardHas that lacrosse playoff site been determined yet?
Doesn't the top-seeded team host?
I believe that's the plan.

That's right. I think my confusion is who hosts when multiple teams finish with the same league record. Isn't a coin flip up near the top after head-to-head record? Cornell beats Princeton, loses to Harvard; Princeton beats Harvard. Or for the playoffs is it a seeding not a record?

phillysportsfan · January 27, 2010, 12:07:38 PM

I think your right on the coin flip because in 2007-08 Cornell,Harvard,Dartmouth womens teams all finished with the same record and all the split their season series so they had some kind of a drawing and Cornell got the first round bye to play the winner of Harvard,Dartmouth for the NCAA bid. They played all the games at Columbia.

I dont know what the exact rule is but that seems kind of dumb to flip a coin to get a first round bye.

Trotsky · January 27, 2010, 12:31:32 PM

Quote from: phillysportsfanI dont know what the exact rule is but that seems kind of dumb to flip a coin to get a first round bye.

It's dumb, but I believe it's also the way they resolve a three-way tie in MLB. The alternative -- round robin over 3 days and still not assured a clean winner -- is a morass.

KeithK · January 27, 2010, 12:59:33 PM

Quote from: Trotsky
Quote from: phillysportsfanI dont know what the exact rule is but that seems kind of dumb to flip a coin to get a first round bye.

It's dumb, but I believe it's also the way they resolve a three-way tie in MLB. The alternative -- round robin over 3 days and still not assured a clean winner -- is a morass.

According to wikipedia, MLB now uses a system of ranking based on head to head record for three way ties. If a clear ranking arises from this, the higher "seeded" team gets to choose which position (A, B, or C) they want followed by the next highest seed picking. Finally, the team designated A hosts B in game one and the winner hosts C. If there are ties then the seeding process is done randomly ("drawing lots").

Regardless, with a three way tie you'r pretty much stuck with giving one of the three a bye. A round robin doesn't guarantee breaking the tie. In the case of Ivy basketball where teams only play two games against every other opponent it's pretty likely that a three way tie will involve head to head splits all around.

phillysportsfan · January 27, 2010, 01:30:33 PM

They could give a first round bye based on average margin of victory within the league but I guess that would encourage running up the score or they could give it based on RPI or Pomeroy or something.

Jacob 03 · January 27, 2010, 03:21:09 PM

Quote from: phillysportsfanI think your right on the coin flip because in 2007-08 Cornell,Harvard,Dartmouth womens teams all finished with the same record and all the split their season series so they had some kind of a drawing and Cornell got the first round bye to play the winner of Harvard,Dartmouth for the NCAA bid. They played all the games at Columbia.

I dont know what the exact rule is but that seems kind of dumb to flip a coin to get a first round bye.

The rules called for a coin flip, but with a lack of three-sided coins on hand they used a drawing involving state quarters. A NY state quarter, NH state quarter, and MA state quarter were placed in a bag and one was drawn out. That lucky Cornell team got the "bye" in the mini-playoff for the NCAA bid.

Chris '03 · January 27, 2010, 03:28:23 PM

Quote from: phillysportsfan... they could give it based on RPI or Pomeroy or something.

So the team that gets the bye in the conference tie breaker is the one with the tougher non-conference schedule? That's the sort of thing we'd expect from NCAA lacrosse.

Trotsky · January 27, 2010, 04:03:36 PM

Quote from: phillysportsfanThey could give a first round bye based on average margin of victory within the league but I guess that would encourage running up the score or they could give it based on RPI or Pomeroy or something.

I like the (old?) Big Ten Rose Bowl rule: team that's been waiting the longest wins. I mean, I don't like it this year...

dbilmes · January 28, 2010, 02:43:24 PM

Meanwhile, this week's Sports Illustrated has a huge, glowing article on Harvard and its star point guard, Jeremy Lin. It makes it sound like we're the underdog on Saturday night. In any case, I hope we can taunt him without resulting to racial slurs. According to the article, he was met with racist taunts at every road game last season.