Cornell vs. Niagara Postgame

[ugarte]

Obviously, it takes genuine talent and years of hard training to get to this level.  But your insistence that the players are therefore all the same in this regard, that we should never differentiate among them re their intensity/effort/heart/desire/focus, is just plain silly.

The point is not that some people don't care more or less than others. The point is that you have no earthly idea who - with Manny Ramirez being (to some degree but to a far less degree than you think) the exception to the rule. You see Nash misplay a puck and think to yourself "man, that guy doesn't give a shit; I want him benched." The reason he logs so much ice time is because a guy I am inclined to trust sees that same play and thinks "we are going to have a talk about fundamentals in practice" because he knows how much better he is than the replacement option. See also, Manny Ramirez.

[RichH]

Since you're being thorough, it's also fair to point out that "grit" and "passion" are so archetypical of the timeless Moneyball (and before that, Ball Four) "old fart jock vs unathletic statsgeek" pissing contest that at least one sabremetric-inspired blog, Amazin' Avenue, coined the term "grission" to make the same point.

But.  Inexact does not equal non-existent.  If we strip away the emotion-laden terminology of "intensity" and "focus" we're still left with personal experiences -- call them "I am trying hard" (or not) and "I give a damn" (or not).  Like pornography, while undefinable we know them when we see them.  Now, it may be a fair criticism whether external observers can ever evaluate those internal states, since what we take as indicators are highly subjective and often ephemeral (classic example: an "effortless" skating style).

Well said, and I cede your 2nd point.  Hockey is an inherently different game than the baseball examples I've given.  It is more constant in action and more of a team-oriented game, so there are more things that players can do that don't show up in the stat sheets.  An example I'll throw out there is "chemistry" when framed with respect to skating lines.  If you put 3 guys out there whose styles work well together to achieve a certain result, and they know each others' habits so well that they can usually expect an action or positioning ahead of time, that can be a big advantage.

[Jim Hyla]

Nice game story in today's Daily Sun:  http://www.cornellsun.com/section/sports/content/2009/11/01/greening%E2%80%99s-two-goals-not-enough-so-devin-lends-hand-overtime

It's probably the most accurate and well-written game summary I've seen in the Sun for some time.  Kudos to Mitchell Drucker.

I liked this

We went to the ref and asked him for a video replay... but then I went back over and they said there was just a black screen. They said it was inconclusive, so they counted it as a goal."

and this

Greening's Two Goals Not Enough,(headline)

followed by

Senior captain Colin Greening netted a goal and an assist

At least the refs quote is funny.

[Al DeFlorio]

USCHO poll has Cornell #5.  Ditto INCH power rankings: http://insidecollegehockey.com/5Polls/0910/polls_0806.htm

Thank you, Joe D. OT goal.:-)

[Edit:  Make that #6 at USCHO.  Their twitter says #5 but maybe that's a hangover from last week's poll.]  Meaningless, in any case.]

[oceanst41]

Obviously, it takes genuine talent and years of hard training to get to this level.  But your insistence that the players are therefore all the same in this regard, that we should never differentiate among them re their intensity/effort/heart/desire/focus, is just plain silly.

The point is not that some people don't care more or less than others. The point is that you have no earthly idea who - with Manny Ramirez being (to some degree but to a far less degree than you think) the exception to the rule. You see Nash misplay a puck and think to yourself "man, that guy doesn't give a shit; I want him benched." The reason he logs so much ice time is because a guy I am inclined to trust sees that same play and thinks "we are going to have a talk about fundamentals in practice" because he knows how much better he is than the replacement option. See also, Manny Ramirez.

Totally agree on Manny. He's a good example, because based on the way he plays you would think he doesn't have focus, intensity, heart, etc. However, by all accounts he puts in more time in the cages and studying picthers than anyone. (Although do fertility drugs help your focus?)

It is the same way with Nash. We don't have any idea how much time he puts in outside of practice. He may be in the weight room, or working on condition, or studying film all the time. He could be intensly passionate about the game, with all the focus in the world, but show it like Ramirez (or Olerud, or Drew).

[Trotsky]

It is the same way with Nash. We don't have any idea how much time he puts in outside of practice.

It is likely this is reflected by ice time. I don't have the TOI, but he is out there in a lot of important situations.

[KeithK]

Totally agree on Manny. He's a good example, because based on the way he plays you would think he doesn't have focus, intensity, heart, etc. However, by all accounts he puts in more time in the cages and studying picthers than anyone. (Although do fertility drugs help your focus?)

I can certainly believe that Manny Ramirez puts in the work and cares about hitting.  There is no reason to believe that he gives a crap about any other part of the game. Watch him (mis)play the field sometime and tell me he's focused or cares about being a good outfielder.

Diving to cut off a throw in shallow center field?  Really?

[cbuckser]

It is the same way with Nash. We don't have any idea how much time he puts in outside of practice. He may be in the weight room, or working on condition, or studying film all the time. He could be intensly passionate about the game, with all the focus in the world, but show it like Ramirez (or Olerud, or Drew).

We do know that he returned to action six or seven months after suffering a devastating knee injury at the end of his freshman year.  Although he was not 100% recovered when he stepped onto the Madison Square Garden ice against BU, it was remarkable that he was able to play two dozen games during his sophomore season.  That speaks volumes about his work ethic.