ECAC's moving to Atlantic City in 2011

[adamw]

[quote Jim Hyla][quote adamw][quote Josh '99][quote adamw]On the other hand, a couple years ago, it took 6 hrs to get to Albany from Central NJ because of a blizzard.[/quote]And the same blizzard would probably cause it to take a comparably long time to get to AC from Ithaca or Troy or Potsdam or Canton or Hamilton or Schenectady (hahahahah as if Union will ever get that far in the playoffs).  That isn't a travel risk that's specific to Albany, that's a travel risk that's all over the Northeast in the winter/very early spring.[/quote]

Well, we were talking about the relative drive-ability from the NYC area. So that blizzard would not have affected the drive to AC nearly as much, if at all.[/quote]Adam, you can put the what if's all you want; but the fact remains that for the huge majority of ECAC fans it is going to be a lot harder to get to AC.[/quote]

I don't see that.  Not among those most likely to actually attend.  Even for local Ithaca fans - what place other than Albany that was being considered would be that much easier to get to?  A few others are nominally closer - but not any easier.  Since it's 3 1/2 from Ithaca to my house - and 1 1/2 from my house to AC ... that's 5 hrs from Ithaca to AC, tops.  Where else is closer?

[Al DeFlorio]

Well, let's see.  Which schools will travel further to AC than to Albany:  Dartmouth, Harvard, Brown, Yale, Quinnipiac, Union, RPI, Clarkson, St. Lawrence, Cornell, and Colgate.  Which school will travel a shorter distance to AC than Albany:  Princeton.  Guess it's pretty much a toss-up.:-|

[Josh '99]

[quote adamw]Well, we were talking about the relative drive-ability from the NYC area. So that blizzard would not have affected the drive to AC nearly as much, if at all.[/quote]OK, you're right.  But the fact that that particular storm made it difficult to drive from NJ to Albany, but wouldn't have if you were going to AC, doesn't preclude other storms from making it difficult for many people to drive to AC, but not if they were going to Albany.  

And, I mean, if we're talking about the NYC area, then let's talk about NYC and not central NJ.

[adamw]

[quote Al DeFlorio]Well, let's see.  Which schools will travel further to AC than to Albany:  Dartmouth, Harvard, Brown, Yale, Quinnipiac, Union, RPI, Clarkson, St. Lawrence, Cornell, and Colgate.  Which school will travel a shorter distance to AC than Albany:  Princeton.  Guess it's pretty much a toss-up.:-|[/quote]

For one, the discussion assumed Albany was out of the picture. ... Two, I was only talking about Ithaca->AC vs. Ithaca->any other realistic location.

That said, I'll venture that there are at least as many alums that live closer to AC than their schools, willing to go to AC - than there are locals and students willing to go to other locations (Providence, Lake Placid, Bridgeport, etc...).  And that's really what we're talking about here -- because I don't see students of any of the schools you mention clamoring to go to the ECACs.

[adamw]

[quote Josh '99][quote adamw]Well, we were talking about the relative drive-ability from the NYC area. So that blizzard would not have affected the drive to AC nearly as much, if at all.[/quote]OK, you're right.  But the fact that that particular storm made it difficult to drive from NJ to Albany, but wouldn't have if you were going to AC, doesn't preclude other storms from making it difficult for many people to drive to AC, but not if they were going to Albany.  

And, I mean, if we're talking about the NYC area, then let's talk about NYC and not central NJ.[/quote]

Well, I was talking about NYC in general - I was just saying how long it took me from Central NJ for the sake of journalistic accuracy, since I didn't drive through NYC on that trip ...

Also - since I've barely seen a snowflake here in 2 years - the odds of that storm affecting a drive to AC is a lot lot less than to Albany.

[Al DeFlorio]

[quote adamw]
For one, the discussion assumed Albany was out of the picture.
[/quote]
Really?  You were comparing the drive from northern New Jersey to AC vs. Albany.  Here's a direct quote from you in a weak response to the first time you were called out for your distorted (blizzard?:-|) comparison:  "Well, we were talking about the relative drive-ability from the NYC area. So that blizzard would not have affected the drive to AC nearly as much [as it did the drive to Albany], if at all."

[Jim Hyla]

[quote adamw][quote Jim Hyla]Adam, you can put the what if's all you want; but the fact remains that for the huge majority of ECAC fans it is going to be a lot harder to get to AC.[/quote]

I don't see that.  Not among those most likely to actually attend.  Even for local Ithaca fans - what place other than Albany that was being considered would be that much easier to get to?  A few others are nominally closer - but not any easier.  Since it's 3 1/2 from Ithaca to my house - and 1 1/2 from my house to AC ... that's 5 hrs from Ithaca to AC, tops.  Where else is closer?[/quote]I was under the impression that Albany still wanted us. Is that not true? As I posted before " A quick google map measure gives the average school to Albany distance as 137 mi., while the AC distance is 300 mi." If you want to look at schools that travel well, you have to consider us, Clarkson, maybe SLU, and the rest. Certainly this decision is worse for all of the above. I can't imagine the average NC fan driving there.

[adamw]

[quote Al DeFlorio][quote adamw]
For one, the discussion assumed Albany was out of the picture.
[/quote]
Really?  You were comparing the drive from northern New Jersey to AC vs. Albany.  Here's a direct quote from you in a weak response to the first time you were called out for your distorted (blizzard?:-|) comparison:  "Well, we were talking about the relative drive-ability from the NYC area. So that blizzard would not have affected the drive to AC nearly as much [as it did the drive to Albany], if at all."[/quote]

You're mixing conversations - but if you insist, that's ok. not going to argue with you - particularly if you're going to be hostile about it.

[adamw]

[quote Jim Hyla][quote adamw][quote Jim Hyla]Adam, you can put the what if's all you want; but the fact remains that for the huge majority of ECAC fans it is going to be a lot harder to get to AC.[/quote]

I don't see that.  Not among those most likely to actually attend.  Even for local Ithaca fans - what place other than Albany that was being considered would be that much easier to get to?  A few others are nominally closer - but not any easier.  Since it's 3 1/2 from Ithaca to my house - and 1 1/2 from my house to AC ... that's 5 hrs from Ithaca to AC, tops.  Where else is closer?[/quote]I was under the impression that Albany still wanted us. Is that not true? As I posted before " A quick google map measure gives the average school to Albany distance as 137 mi., while the AC distance is 300 mi." If you want to look at schools that travel well, you have to consider us, Clarkson, maybe SLU, and the rest. Certainly this decision is worse for all of the above. I can't imagine the average NC fan driving there.[/quote]

Albany still wanted it - but the ECAC was not going to stay there given the attendance decline.  So my point was, given the other options, what's better to get to?

It's true, the average NC fan - that lives in the NC - will not drive there.  No one is denying that.  Now I ask, how many of them drove to Albany the last couple years - with SLU and Clarkson at Albany? Not many. How many SLU/Clarkson fans that live near NYC/NJ will go to AC?  Who knows.  But I'm suggesting it will be at least as many. How many Cornell fans showed up at MSG?  13,000?  How many showed up in Albany?  4,000?  AC is not MSG, obviously - but just sayin'

[Al DeFlorio]

Providence, Bridgeport and Hartford are "better to get to" for Dartmouth, Harvard, Brown, Yale, and Quinnipiac; comparable for RPI, Union, Clarkson, and St. Lawrence; marginally more difficult for Cornell and Colgate; and clearly more difficult for Princeton.  

This, of course, is not to mention that Rhode Island and eastern Massachusetts are hotbeds of college hockey.  Who on the Jersey shore gives a hoot?

[JasonN95]

[quote adamw][quote Jim Hyla][quote adamw][quote Jim Hyla]Adam, you can put the what if's all you want; but the fact remains that for the huge majority of ECAC fans it is going to be a lot harder to get to AC.[/quote]

I don't see that.  Not among those most likely to actually attend.  Even for local Ithaca fans - what place other than Albany that was being considered would be that much easier to get to?  A few others are nominally closer - but not any easier.  Since it's 3 1/2 from Ithaca to my house - and 1 1/2 from my house to AC ... that's 5 hrs from Ithaca to AC, tops.  Where else is closer?[/quote]I was under the impression that Albany still wanted us. Is that not true? As I posted before " A quick google map measure gives the average school to Albany distance as 137 mi., while the AC distance is 300 mi." If you want to look at schools that travel well, you have to consider us, Clarkson, maybe SLU, and the rest. Certainly this decision is worse for all of the above. I can't imagine the average NC fan driving there.[/quote]

Albany still wanted it - but the ECAC was not going to stay there given the attendance decline.  So my point was, given the other options, what's better to get to?

It's true, the average NC fan - that lives in the NC - will not drive there.  No one is denying that.  Now I ask, how many of them drove to Albany the last couple years - with SLU and Clarkson at Albany? Not many. How many SLU/Clarkson fans that live near NYC/NJ will go to AC?  Who knows.  But I'm suggesting it will be at least as many. How many Cornell fans showed up at MSG?  13,000?  How many showed up in Albany?  4,000?  AC is not MSG, obviously - but just sayin'[/quote]

Yeah, I agree with Adam here. Being geographically central to the League's schools wasn't getting fans to turn out in big numbers and the trend was awful. So trying a new location that offers something other than the hockey and may be more convenient to a different pool of fans to see if it can turn around attendance, while guaranteeing the league more money, doesn't sound unreasonable.

[JasonN95]

[quote Al DeFlorio]Providence, Bridgeport and Hartford are "better to get to" for Dartmouth, Harvard, Brown, Yale, and Quinnipiac; comparable for RPI, Union, Clarkson, and St. Lawrence; marginally more difficult for Cornell and Colgate; and clearly more difficult for Princeton.  

This, of course, is not to mention that Rhode Island and eastern Massachusetts are hotbeds of college hockey.  Who on the Jersey shore gives a hoot?[/quote]

And how many fans in those hotbeds who don't have an association with an ECAC school and just want to watch some college hockey, given a choice of the ECAC tournament with a couple nearby schools that haven't done anything nationally and the Hockey East tournament with numerous nearby schools that have made some national noise of late (including winning it all) are going to show up at the ECAC's?

Short of being in the back yard, I'm not convinced any location is going to draw meaningful numbers from Dartmouth, Harvard, Brown, or Yale. Q may be able to deliver fans to a reasonably accessible location, I'm not sure.

[adamw]

[quote Al DeFlorio]Providence, Bridgeport and Hartford are "better to get to" for Dartmouth, Harvard, Brown, Yale, and Quinnipiac; comparable for RPI, Union, Clarkson, and St. Lawrence; marginally more difficult for Cornell and Colgate; and clearly more difficult for Princeton.  

This, of course, is not to mention that Rhode Island and eastern Massachusetts are hotbeds of college hockey.  Who on the Jersey shore gives a hoot?[/quote]

Alums. Pro hockey fans? I don't know.

Plus:
http://www.collegehockeynews.com/almanac/funfacts-wherefrom.php

college hockey players from NJ: 24 ... from RI: 7 ... from PA: 41 ... from Mass. 99 (not all data is updated yet, as evidenced by the top number in the chart)

[adamw]

[quote JasonN95][quote Al DeFlorio]Providence, Bridgeport and Hartford are "better to get to" for Dartmouth, Harvard, Brown, Yale, and Quinnipiac; comparable for RPI, Union, Clarkson, and St. Lawrence; marginally more difficult for Cornell and Colgate; and clearly more difficult for Princeton.  

This, of course, is not to mention that Rhode Island and eastern Massachusetts are hotbeds of college hockey.  Who on the Jersey shore gives a hoot?[/quote]

And how many fans in those hotbeds who don't have an association with an ECAC school and just want to watch some college hockey, given a choice of the ECAC tournament with a couple nearby schools that haven't done anything nationally and the Hockey East tournament with numerous nearby schools that have made some national noise of late (including winning it all) are going to show up at the ECAC's?

Short of being in the back yard, I'm not convinced any location is going to draw meaningful numbers from Dartmouth, Harvard, Brown, or Yale. Q may be able to deliver fans to a reasonably accessible location, I'm not sure.[/quote]

Exactly - which has been my point when I said "among those who care"

[Josh '99]

[quote adamw]Plus:
http://www.collegehockeynews.com/almanac/funfacts-wherefrom.php

college hockey players from NJ: 24 ... from RI: 7 ... from PA: 41 ... from Mass. 99 (not all data is updated yet, as evidenced by the top number in the chart)[/quote]And 180 players from Ontario, which is nowhere near Atlantic City.