ECAC's moving to Atlantic City in 2011

[redice]

And, if we're going to go that far (from Ithaca to Providence), why not just go back to Boston where we can all have a great time!! ;-)

I know, I know.    It's not gonna happen in my life.....::cry::

[Josh '99]

[quote adamw][quote Josh '99][quote adamw]Well, we were talking about the relative drive-ability from the NYC area. So that blizzard would not have affected the drive to AC nearly as much, if at all.[/quote]OK, you're right.  But the fact that that particular storm made it difficult to drive from NJ to Albany, but wouldn't have if you were going to AC, doesn't preclude other storms from making it difficult for many people to drive to AC, but not if they were going to Albany.  

And, I mean, if we're talking about the NYC area, then let's talk about NYC and not central NJ.[/quote]

Well, I was talking about NYC in general - I was just saying how long it took me from Central NJ for the sake of journalistic accuracy, since I didn't drive through NYC on that trip ...

Also - since I've barely seen a snowflake here in 2 years - the odds of that storm affecting a drive to AC is a lot lot less than to Albany.[/quote]The odds of that storm affecting your drive from Central NJ to AC are a lot less than the odds of it affecting your drive from Central NJ to Albany.  For people coming from most of the geographic area covered by the ECAC, a winter storm of reasonable size might easily affect northeast PA, downstate NY and western CT, and thus affect travel from eleven of the twelve schools.  If the storm hit northern NJ, it'd also affect travel from NYC.  Yes, there are storms that might affect travel to Albany but not to AC, but most likely, if there's a storm in this general area:



Then that storm will affect travel to AC for a large number of people just as it would for travel to Albany (or Bridgeport, or Lake Placid, or any other number of potential sites).

[adamw]

[quote Josh '99]Then that storm will affect travel to AC for a large number of people just as it would for travel to Albany (or Bridgeport, or Lake Placid, or any other number of potential sites).[/quote]

Obviously.  But the point that started this thread of the conversation was whether there were other factors besides mileage that affected the relative travel issues between NYC-area->Albany vs. NYC-area->AC .... that was the only thing that part of the conversation was focusing on.

[Josh '99]

[quote adamw]Albany still wanted it - but the ECAC was not going to stay there given the attendance decline.  So my point was, given the other options, what's better to get to?[/quote]Is it really fair to blame the attendance decline on Albany (whether that means the location, the character of the city, or something the organizing committee did or didn't do), rather than on the fact that for the last couple of years, the schools that have been participating (other than Cornell and maybe St. Lawrence) just don't bring many fans?  No Clarkson, no RPI, no Quinnipiac (who've shown signs that they can draw well), no Union (thus casual local fans).  After maybe a one or two year novelty honeymoon where everyone says "ooh, let's try the tournament in Atlantic City", how do you think it'll draw down there if it's Harvard, Yale, Clarkson and Colgate, say?

[Josh '99]

[quote redice]And, if we're going to go that far (from Ithaca to Providence), why not just go back to Boston where we can all have a great time!! ;-)

I know, I know.    It's not gonna happen in my life.....::cry::[/quote]Because Boston sucks.  F Boston.

[Josh '99]

[quote adamw][quote Josh '99]Then that storm will affect travel to AC for a large number of people just as it would for travel to Albany (or Bridgeport, or Lake Placid, or any other number of potential sites).[/quote]

Obviously.  But the point that started this thread of the conversation was whether there were other factors besides mileage that affected the relative travel issues between NYC-area->Albany vs. NYC-area->AC .... that was the only thing that part of the conversation was focusing on.[/quote]Fine.  And I maintain that many storms that would affect travel from NYC to Albany would also affect travel from NYC to Atlantic City.

[Al DeFlorio]

[quote Josh '99]And I maintain that many storms that would affect travel from NYC to Albany would also affect travel from NYC to Atlantic City.[/quote]
And from Colgate, Cornell, Clarkson, St. Lawrence, Union, and RPI to Atlantic City, as well.  Quite possibly from Yale, Quinnipiac, Brown, Harvard, and Dartmouth, too.  The blizzard business was a spurious point in the first place.

[adamw]

[quote Al DeFlorio][quote Josh '99]And I maintain that many storms that would affect travel from NYC to Albany would also affect travel from NYC to Atlantic City.[/quote]
And from Colgate, Cornell, Clarkson, St. Lawrence, Union, and RPI to Atlantic City, as well.  Quite possibly from Yale, Quinnipiac, Brown, Harvard, and Dartmouth, too.  The blizzard business was a spurious point in the first place.[/quote]

At least it's now spurious instead of weak

a) it was just one of many points - b) check the snowfalls of the last 10 years and find how many storms of note occurred in the Hudson Valley region vs. the Jersey shore region in March.  The ratio is probably 10 to 1.  c) yes, all those other places will have a tougher time to get to AC than Albany ... however, that ties into part II of this discussion, which is - repeat - no one was coming from those places anyway, and, theoretically, as many or more interested parties will go to AC from closer locales than were otherwise attending.

How many Yale students were in Albany last year?  Harvard ever?

BTW Josh - Clarkson, Quinnipiac were in Albany a couple years ago, and attendance was still lousy.

[Jim Hyla]

[quote adamw]BTW Josh - Clarkson, Quinnipiac were in Albany a couple years ago, and attendance was still lousy.[/quote]Yeah, the attendance was 10,000. AC holds 10,300, so how were they going to get a lot more there. The average attendance at Albany was 10,185 (according to Ken Schott). The lowest in last 5 years was last year at 8,000. THe rest were 10,000 or more. You can't convince me that attendance was the problem when they go to an arena seating 10,300.



Maybe the ECAC office got more money with the move, but not more fans. At the best it'll be a wash and remember that money is coming out of our pockets; AC can't grow it on trees. If they gave more then they expect us to spend more.

[ursusminor]

[quote Jim Hyla][quote adamw]BTW Josh - Clarkson, Quinnipiac were in Albany a couple years ago, and attendance was still lousy.[/quote]Yeah, the attendance was 10,000. AC holds 10,300, so how were they going to get a lot more there. The average attendance at Albany was 10,185 (according to Ken Schott). The lowest in last 5 years was last year at 8,000. THe rest were 10,000 or more. You can't convince me that attendance was the problem when they go to an arena seating 10,300.



Maybe the ECAC office got more money with the move, but not more fans. At the best it'll be a wash and remember that money is coming out of our pockets; AC can't grow it on trees. If they gave more then they expect us to spend more.[/quote] Weren't those figures of about 10,000 for both days of the tourney combined, and thus there were about 5,000 per day?

[Jim Hyla]

[quote ursusminor][quote Jim Hyla][quote adamw]BTW Josh - Clarkson, Quinnipiac were in Albany a couple years ago, and attendance was still lousy.[/quote]Yeah, the attendance was 10,000. AC holds 10,300, so how were they going to get a lot more there. The average attendance at Albany was 10,185 (according to Ken Schott). The lowest in last 5 years was last year at 8,000. THe rest were 10,000 or more. You can't convince me that attendance was the problem when they go to an arena seating 10,300.



Maybe the ECAC office got more money with the move, but not more fans. At the best it'll be a wash and remember that money is coming out of our pockets; AC can't grow it on trees. If they gave more then they expect us to spend more.[/quote] Weren't those figures of about 10,000 for both days of the tourney combined, and thus there were about 5,000 per day?[/quote]You may be right on that. In fact, as I think about the crowds, of course you're right.

[TimV]

[quote JasonN95] ...and the trend was awful.[/quote]

Skip it. Josh already said the same thing I was gonna say in his post just below.

[Jeff Hopkins '82]

We also had one year in there with Vermont coming to Albany.  And they travel very well.  If I had to guess that may be the peak year for attendance in Albany.

[billhoward]

Draw a ring arounde the outer circle of ECAC school plus spokes from each school into Albany and it's even easier to see how Albany, charmless as it is, made sense. Atlantic City is the little amoeba tail at the bottom center. This will make Princeton's 50 traveling fans happy plus the Cornell Club of the Pine Barrens. The more you look at a map, the more you wonder: Who ticked off whom in the Albany-ECAC negotiations? Or did Atlantic City just overpay? Or is there an innocent explanation?

[Josh '99]

[quote adamw]a) it was just one of many points - b) check the snowfalls of the last 10 years and find how many storms of note occurred in the Hudson Valley region vs. the Jersey shore region in March.  The ratio is probably 10 to 1.  [/quote]But that's not the point.  Even if there aren't many storms that actually hit south Jersey in mid-March, there are more storms that hit the NNJ/NYC/NE PA/SW CT/Hudson Valley regions, and those are going to impact travel to AC for a lot of people too.