Cornell 2 at Yale 4

[Dpperk29]

[quote abmarks][quote Trotsky][quote ugarte]Since I started watching in 1990, that has included D'Alessio, Duffus, LeNeveu and now Garman[/quote]

And maybe Isles.  We probably won't get many blue chip scoring forwards unless other considerations are at play (Riley), but I would think Cornell would be in the running for any elite goalie, defenseman, or defensive forward.  The main obstacle for them isn't the system, but admissions requirements.[/quote]

So you are saying that forwards will have a tougher time meeting admissions standards?  cmon....[/quote]

You'd think someone dumb enough to stand between the pipes and let someone shoot 5 ounces of vulcanized rubber at speeds approaching 100 MPH would have more trouble getting into college than a forward.

[ugarte]

[quote abmarks][quote Trotsky][quote ugarte]Since I started watching in 1990, that has included D'Alessio, Duffus, LeNeveu and now Garman[/quote]

And maybe Isles.  We probably won't get many blue chip scoring forwards unless other considerations are at play (Riley), but I would think Cornell would be in the running for any elite goalie, defenseman, or defensive forward.  The main obstacle for them isn't the system, but admissions requirements.[/quote]

So you are saying that forwards will have a tougher time meeting admissions standards?  cmon....[/quote]
I think the "them" he was referring to were "ny elite goalie, defenseman, or defensive forward". We aren't getting the flashy scorers regardless of their grades; the challenge for getting the type of player we do have a chance of recruiting is the Ivy Index. It wasn't a slam on forwards.

Even if we do realize that goal scorers are traditionally idiots. Like, say, Joe Juneau.

[marty]

[quote Jim Hyla][quote abmarks][quote MSE09][quote abmarks]...We will NEVER compete for a national title with the system and players we are getting.  At this rate we won't even win the league with any regularity since speed is gonna win out every time vs. size...the rest of the league is going back towards small/quicktalented offensively...team speed or puckhandling/shooting/offensive skills to compete...if coach doesn't change up the system a bit and adapt.. and then in turn be able to get some different type players, we won't see that next national title.[/quote]

Hmmm, Coach Schafer experimenting with a new system by recruiting small, highly talented, fast offense-minded players?  Such a team would have unquestionable success! ::whistle::[/quote]

If by success we mean a national title or realistic shot at playing for one EVERY year,current things are hardly any measure of success.  

Besides, seems to bea fine system for the Michigans and BC's, BUs of the world.[/quote]If you honestly think we can compete for the same talent as those schools, well I've got this bridge...


ECAC schools have their obvious problems in recruiting against large scholarship schools.We'll never compete for the same players. Yes we might get one every year or so, but to compete with them for three or four each year, never. We need some highly talented players like Riley Nash, some a little under the radar like the Kennedys or Devins, and alot of role players like Mugford. If we get a good combo of those we can compete in the ECAC and on some years nationally.[/quote]

There are three ECAC schools that no longer have to deal with the lack of scholarships.  Harvard, Yale and Princeton.  And perhaps we are already seeing some of the fruits of the Yale and Princeton endowments.

[Jim Hyla]

[quote marty]There are three ECAC schools that no longer have to deal with the lack of scholarships.  Harvard, Yale and Princeton.  And perhaps we are already seeing some of the fruits of the Yale and Princeton endowments.[/quote]Agree!

[abmarks]

[quote Jim Hyla][quote marty]There are three ECAC schools that no longer have to deal with the lack of scholarships.  Harvard, Yale and Princeton.  And perhaps we are already seeing some of the fruits of the Yale and Princeton endowments.[/quote]Agree![/quote]

I was thinking about that issue, but I haven't kept up wit hwhat COrnell is doing in general in regard to financial aid.  Some of those schools are saying that for anty family with family income under $xx it's a free ride right?  What's Cornell's policy?

And if we are giving certain income levels full need-rides, then I say let's find the talented poor kid who we can give a full need-based ride too.  If we aren't working the edges of any aid we can give kids we are certainly at a disadvantage against the league now given what those named ivies are doing.  

Effectively speaking, who's left that either doesn't have sholarships or does not have the education for any kid's basically a free-ride policy?

[Trotsky]

[quote abmarks]Effectively speaking, who's left that either doesn't have sholarships or does not have the education for any kid's basically a free-ride policy?[/quote]

If I read this question correctly, the recruits we can't compete for have middle class (and even upper middle class) parents who are not offered as good financial aid packages from Cornell as from Princeton or Yale and/or who are offered a full ride scholarship from a Michigan or a BC.  Although Cornell offers (arguably) a higher education ceiling than either of the latter schools, the vast majority of athletes (and non-athletes) avail themselves of something short of the optimal education being offered.  The only way parents would choose Cornell in that situation is if there are wildcard emotional factors.

We are caught between schools that pay-for-play and schools that have such enormous endowments that they can afford to subsidize tuition for anyone worth less than the Olins.  Looked at that way, it's impressive we get the talent we do.

[Swampy]

[quote Trotsky][quote abmarks]Effectively speaking, who's left that either doesn't have sholarships or does not have the education for any kid's basically a free-ride policy?[/quote]

If I read this question correctly, the recruits we can't compete for have middle class (and even upper middle class) parents who are not offered as good financial aid packages from Cornell as from Princeton or Yale and/or who are offered a full ride scholarship from a Michigan or a BC.  Although Cornell offers (arguably) a higher education ceiling than either of the latter schools, the vast majority of athletes (and non-athletes) avail themselves of something short of the optimal education being offered.  The only way parents would choose Cornell in that situation is if there are wildcard emotional factors.

We are caught between schools that pay-for-play and schools that have such enormous endowments that they can afford to subsidize tuition for anyone worth less than the Olins.  Looked at that way, it's impressive we get the talent we do.[/quote]

There is one further complication. Cornell tends to recruit more from Canada than some of these other schools. And everyone in Canada knows Cornell gives athletic scholarships, eh. International exchange rates can shift a Canadian family's income. For example, today a family making CN$100K is making only US$77,229.

[Trotsky]

[quote Swampy]Cornell tends to recruit more from Canada than some of these other schools. And everyone in Canada knows Cornell gives athletic scholarships, eh. International exchange rates can shift a Canadian family's income. For example, today a family making CN$100K is making only US$77,229.[/quote]

I'm missing something.  I would think the dollar being in the toilet would be good for recruiting from Canada.  Since Cornell tuition is paid in $US, and Canadians can get more $US at the exchange now than they used to, Cornell tuition has actually dropped for Canadians because of the weakening dollar.  Right?

Or are you saying that even though it's better now, it's still a consideration that other schools don't have?

[Lauren '06]

[quote Trotsky][quote Swampy]Cornell tends to recruit more from Canada than some of these other schools. And everyone in Canada knows Cornell gives athletic scholarships, eh. International exchange rates can shift a Canadian family's income. For example, today a family making CN$100K is making only US$77,229.[/quote]

I'm missing something.  I would think the dollar being in the toilet would be good for recruiting from Canada.  Since Cornell tuition is paid in $US, and Canadians can get more $US at the exchange now than they used to, Cornell tuition has actually dropped for Canadians because of the weakening dollar.  Right?[/quote]
No, the Canadian dollar is worth less than 78 cents on the American dollar (down from 90 cents in August 2008).  The American dollar has weakened, yes, but the Canadian has gone even worse.  I make out nice because I pay my Canadian rent and tuition from money stored in a US bank.  Those going the other way, not so much.  The only advantage to a weakening Canadian dollar is that they might qualify for more aid.

[Trotsky]

[quote Lauren '06]No, the Canadian dollar is worth less than 78 cents on the American dollar (down from 90 cents in August 2008).  The American dollar has weakened, yes, but the Canadian has gone even worse.  I make out nice because I pay my Canadian rent and tuition from money stored in a US bank.  Those going the other way, not so much.  The only advantage to a weakening Canadian dollar is that they might qualify for more aid.[/quote]

Gotcha, it's a matter of time frame.  I was still back in 2004.

[tretiak]

As international students, they're not eligible for FAFSA and other financial aid packages open only to Americans, which means less aid.

[KeithK]

[quote tretiak]

As international students, they're not eligible for FAFSA and other financial aid packages open only to Americans, which means less aid.[/quote]
Cornell still guarantees to meet a student's full need right?  If the kid isn't eligible for some sources of aid it has to come from elsewhere.  If he's got an amazing slap shot then it may well be Cornell grant money.

[Swampy]

[quote Lauren '06][quote Trotsky][quote Swampy]Cornell tends to recruit more from Canada than some of these other schools. And everyone in Canada knows Cornell gives athletic scholarships, eh. International exchange rates can shift a Canadian family's income. For example, today a family making CN$100K is making only US$77,229.[/quote]

I'm missing something.  I would think the dollar being in the toilet would be good for recruiting from Canada.  Since Cornell tuition is paid in $US, and Canadians can get more $US at the exchange now than they used to, Cornell tuition has actually dropped for Canadians because of the weakening dollar.  Right?[/quote]
No, the Canadian dollar is worth less than 78 cents on the American dollar (down from 90 cents in August 2008).  The American dollar has weakened, yes, but the Canadian has gone even worse.  I make out nice because I pay my Canadian rent and tuition from money stored in a US bank.  Those going the other way, not so much.  The only advantage to a weakening Canadian dollar is that they might qualify for more aid.[/quote]

Yeah, my point was only in reference to financial aid, since we were talking about the big-endowment schools covering 100% of need. I'm assuming that Cornell's Financial Aid office does all its calculations in US$, So, even a relatively well-off Canadian family would have more need from the perspective of need-based financial aid. (That is relatively well off if they stay away from imported goods. Then again,they've got socialized medicine so the need in the family budget is less than that of a U.S. player's family. I'm pretty sure the financial aid formula doesn't take into account the level of publicly provided goods in the student's home country. It's too bad some of the coaches back in the '70s and '80s didn't get wise to this and recruit from the Red Army team. ::bang: