NCAA rule against agents struck down

KeithK · February 17, 2009, 12:58:43 PM

An Oklahoma State pitcher sued the NCAA over it's rule prohibiting agents.
http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/college/?p=746
The kid had used an agent advisor as a high school senior after being drafted by the Twins. He didn't sign and instead went to OSU. When the agent relationship came out the NCAA forced the school to suspend the player.

The ruling appears to be by an Ohio county judge so it has very little precedential value at this point. But if this holds up under appeal it seems like it could have a significant efects on college sports including hockey.

It's not clear from the stories why the case was filed in Erie County, Ohio. Maybe the player is from there.

ugarte · February 17, 2009, 01:41:42 PM

[quote KeithK]
It's not clear from the stories why the case was filed in Erie County, Ohio. Maybe the player is from there.[/quote]
That's it.

ugarte · February 17, 2009, 01:44:18 PM

[quote KeithK]
It's not clear from the stories why the case was filed in Erie County, Ohio. Maybe the player is from there.[/quote]
That's it.

This is a lot more likely to affect college hockey than football or hoops. The NHL, like MLB, doesn't require players to opt in to the draft. The NFL and NBA draft opt-in draft rules are collusive bullshit but they present a tougher case.

Trotsky · February 17, 2009, 01:52:12 PM

[quote ugarte]This is a lot more likely to affect college hockey than football or hoops. The NHL, like MLB, doesn't require players to opt in to the draft. The NFL and NBA draft opt-in draft rules are collusive bullshit but they present a tougher case.[/quote]

Is it a coincidence that the NHL, like MLB, has a strong minor league system, while the NFL and NBA use the colleges as quasi-professional development franchises?

MOBalum · February 17, 2009, 08:50:42 PM

[quote Trotsky][quote ugarte]This is a lot more likely to affect college hockey than football or hoops. The NHL, like MLB, doesn't require players to opt in to the draft. The NFL and NBA draft opt-in draft rules are collusive bullshit but they present a tougher case.[/quote]

Is it a coincidence that the NHL, like MLB, has a strong minor league system, while the NFL and NBA use the colleges as quasi-professional development franchises?[/quote]

And similarly, hockey and baseball are the two sports of the Big Four where top academic institutions are regularly found at the top of the rankings.

ugarte · February 17, 2009, 11:17:45 PM

[quote Trotsky][quote ugarte]This is a lot more likely to affect college hockey than football or hoops. The NHL, like MLB, doesn't require players to opt in to the draft. The NFL and NBA draft opt-in draft rules are collusive bullshit but they present a tougher case.[/quote]

Is it a coincidence that the NHL, like MLB, has a strong minor league system, while the NFL and NBA use the colleges as quasi-professional development franchises?[/quote]
You are being sarcastic, right? Usually I can tell.

That the synergy of NCAA policy and the NFL and NBA draft rules have not yet been attacked as an antitrust conspiracy is a wonder to me.

Jim Hyla · February 19, 2009, 09:00:05 AM

[quote MOBalum]And similarly, hockey and baseball are the two sports of the Big Four where top academic institutions are regularly found at the top of the rankings.[/quote]Sure, here's one ranking for this year's baseball.

Code Select


1. NORTH CAROLINA – 2008 rank: 3
2. LSU – 2008 rank: 6
3. TEXAS A&M – 2008 rank: 12
4. CAL STATE FULLERTON – 2008 rank: 3
5. RICE – 2008 rank: 8
6. TEXAS – 2008 rank: 23
7. UC IRVINE – 2008 rank: 11
8. PEPPERDINE – 2008 rank: 19
9. GEORGIA – 2008 rank: 2
10. FLORIDA STATE – 2008 rank: 7

It looks a lot different than football and basketball, doesn't it?::uhoh::

MOBalum · February 19, 2009, 05:20:32 PM

[quote Jim Hyla][quote MOBalum]And similarly, hockey and baseball are the two sports of the Big Four where top academic institutions are regularly found at the top of the rankings.[/quote]Sure, here's one ranking for this year's baseball.

Code Select


1. NORTH CAROLINA – 2008 rank: 3
2. LSU – 2008 rank: 6
3. TEXAS A&M – 2008 rank: 12
4. CAL STATE FULLERTON – 2008 rank: 3
5. RICE – 2008 rank: 8
6. TEXAS – 2008 rank: 23
7. UC IRVINE – 2008 rank: 11
8. PEPPERDINE – 2008 rank: 19
9. GEORGIA – 2008 rank: 2
10. FLORIDA STATE – 2008 rank: 7

It looks a lot different than football and basketball, doesn't it?::uhoh::[/quote]

Despite the sarcasm I infer from your icon, yes it does.

I never said that only top academic schools are at the top of the list; the BCS powers are going to be strong in every sport, just as Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Notre Dame, BC are frequently ranked in hockey. (I'm well-aware that some of those are also outstanding institutions of higher learning, then again from your list Texas, UNC, and to a lesser degree TAMU are strong as well - not the point.)

In the Rivals top ten that you mentioned, five are traditional or recent FB and BB powers, one (UNC) is obviously a basketball power but not a football strength, and the other four? Fullerton, Rice, UC-Irvine, Pepperdine. One is Ivy-quality, two more are in the upper half of US News' Tier I. Add to that the fact that Vanderbilt and Tulane have both been ranked #1 in recent years, that Stanford has been a regular at the College World Series, and that Georgia Tech does better in baseball than it does in either FB or BB.

My statement was motivated by the fact that in baseball and hockey, those who only care about the professional level can sign right out of high school, leaving the college level for those who actively choose to be student-athletes. As we all know, there are 1,355,683,250 student-athletes in the NCAA, and nearly all will go pro in something other than sports. Obviously lacrosse and many Olympic sports are well-represented by "smart-kid" schools, but they don't have the same type of pro leagues to deal with. Hence baseball and hockey.

Perhaps it would be a better statement to say that college baseball, like hockey, is a sport where many schools outside the expected sports-factory mold have had success. I guess I'm not a regular here and will choose my words more carefully in the future.

KeithK · February 19, 2009, 05:42:11 PM

[quote MOBalum]I guess I'm not a regular here and will choose my words more carefully in the future.[/quote]You have learned an important first lesson about eLF, my friend!

ugarte · February 19, 2009, 08:17:53 PM

[quote MOBalum]Perhaps it would be a better statement to say that college baseball, like hockey, is a sport where many schools outside the expected sports-factory mold have had success. I guess I'm not a regular here and will choose my words more carefully in the future.[/quote]
Don't worry. If you hadn't stepped in, I had your back.

Josh '99 · February 20, 2009, 03:00:16 PM

[quote MOBalum]As we all know, there are 1,355,683,250 student-athletes in the NCAA, and nearly all will go pro in something other than sports. [/quote]::laugh::

Al DeFlorio · February 20, 2009, 04:05:54 PM

[quote Josh '99][quote MOBalum]As we all know, there are 1,355,683,250 student-athletes in the NCAA, and nearly all will go pro in something other than sports. [/quote]::laugh::[/quote]
And, I suppose, a few will go con.::uptosomething::

billhoward · February 20, 2009, 05:07:52 PM

[quote Al DeFlorio][quote Josh '99][quote MOBalum]As we all know, there are 1,355,683,250 student-athletes in the NCAA, and nearly all will go pro in something other than sports. [/quote]::laugh::[/quote]
And, I suppose, a few will go con.::uptosomething::[/quote]
They should be in jail for capitalizing The Ohio State University.

That would be an interesting discussion: College with the most criminal and otherwise-sanctionable involvements among its student athletes. Miami ("the team picture is take from the front and both sides") could have retired such a trophy a decade ago.

Josh '99 · February 20, 2009, 07:54:09 PM

[quote Al DeFlorio][quote Josh '99][quote MOBalum]As we all know, there are 1,355,683,250 student-athletes in the NCAA, and nearly all will go pro in something other than sports. [/quote]::laugh::[/quote]
And, I suppose, a few will go con.::uptosomething::[/quote]Did Ted Kaczynski play any sports at Sucks?

billhoward · February 21, 2009, 09:44:05 AM

If you were a suicide bomber with just one belt pack (containing an Acme stink bomb) and the NCAA executive committee was meeting in the Magnolia Suite while the College Sports Agents Ethics Committee was meeting down the hall in the Cornelius Vanderbilt room, where would you pull the cord?

It's hard to understand why a person in college isn't entitled to representation by a lawyer. And is there any line you draw? It does seem shaky -- bordering on professionalism -- to ask for a cut of the student-athlete's future earnings as opposed to an hourly or flat fee the way most people pay lawyers. But then colleges a generation ago offered tuition waivers in exchange for a small cut of the student's adult earnings. (Those programs died when Yale etc. found the people who used them were more likely to be low-paid teachers rather than the Wall Street-bound and so the funding pool never re-filled.)

The player (Andrew Oliver) must either be indecisive about his pro career or just wanted to someone to talk to a lot. One story says he rang up a $115,000 tab based on $350/hour. Abuut 330 hours if it was all hourly and nothing for FedEx or paper clips.