Recruiting

[Will]

[quote Rita][quote Trotsky]It's not a terrible thing to have a Nieuwendyk every twenty years or so to keep the Cornell name in the news at the NHL level.

What I would dearly love to have, though, is another Dryden.  Given the amazing numbers put up by Cornell goalies over nearly the last decade, a guy going on and becoming a Vezina contender might assure that Cornell gets the top college-bound goaltending prospect in perpetuity.[/quote]

Agreed, but do you think our goalies (now and in the future) will look at what has happened to McKee and Lenny (and even JMP) and realize that they might be better off staying in school for four years, rather than leaving after 2-3 years? [/quote]

Keith's description of a goaltender's potential path to the NHL aside, let's look at it this way:

McKee and LeNeveu - left school early and now floating around the minor leagues.
Dryden - stayed all four years, had an outstanding NHL career, became part of the Leafs' upper management, got elected to Canadian parliament, and is at times erroneously credited with the perfect '69-'70 season.

Kids, stay in school! :-D

[profudge]

My brother watched Taft (earlier ranked #1 New England prep) play Salisbury Prep to a 1-1 tie couple of days ago   Andy Iles, in net impressed him as a very good goalie prospect for Cornell!  And as a defenseman and hockey player (D-III) for 40+ years and some coachng in HS he has an experienced eye for this.

[Jim Hyla]

[quote Will][quote Rita][quote Trotsky]It's not a terrible thing to have a Nieuwendyk every twenty years or so to keep the Cornell name in the news at the NHL level.

What I would dearly love to have, though, is another Dryden.  Given the amazing numbers put up by Cornell goalies over nearly the last decade, a guy going on and becoming a Vezina contender might assure that Cornell gets the top college-bound goaltending prospect in perpetuity.[/quote]

Agreed, but do you think our goalies (now and in the future) will look at what has happened to McKee and Lenny (and even JMP) and realize that they might be better off staying in school for four years, rather than leaving after 2-3 years? [/quote]

Keith's description of a goaltender's potential path to the NHL aside, let's look at it this way:

McKee and LeNeveu - left school early and now floating around the minor leagues.
Dryden - stayed all four years, had an outstanding NHL career, became part of the Leafs' upper management, got elected to Canadian parliament, and is at times erroneously credited with the perfect '69-'70 season.

Kids, stay in school! :-D[/quote]

Maybe even better than Dryden are the examples of Darren Eliot and Brian Hayward. Both were good goalies when coming to CU. Both stayed 4 years and had good NHL careers. Certainly a different time, but both were more successful than our recent jumps.

[ugarte]

[quote Jim Hyla][quote Will][quote Rita][quote Trotsky]It's not a terrible thing to have a Nieuwendyk every twenty years or so to keep the Cornell name in the news at the NHL level.

What I would dearly love to have, though, is another Dryden.  Given the amazing numbers put up by Cornell goalies over nearly the last decade, a guy going on and becoming a Vezina contender might assure that Cornell gets the top college-bound goaltending prospect in perpetuity.[/quote]

Agreed, but do you think our goalies (now and in the future) will look at what has happened to McKee and Lenny (and even JMP) and realize that they might be better off staying in school for four years, rather than leaving after 2-3 years? [/quote]

Keith's description of a goaltender's potential path to the NHL aside, let's look at it this way:

McKee and LeNeveu - left school early and now floating around the minor leagues.
Dryden - stayed all four years, had an outstanding NHL career, became part of the Leafs' upper management, got elected to Canadian parliament, and is at times erroneously credited with the perfect '69-'70 season.

Kids, stay in school! :-D[/quote]

Maybe even better than Dryden are the examples of Darren Eliot and Brian Hayward. Both were good goalies when coming to CU. Both stayed 4 years and had good NHL careers. Certainly a different time, but both were more successful than our recent jumps.[/quote]
I admit that I don't know a lot about the particulars of coaching, much less teaching, hockey. At the same time, goaltender would seem to be the position least likely to benefit from seasoning at the college level - and to some degree, particularly at Cornell.

AFAIK, there are no goaltending specialists or former goalies on the coaching staff and because the Cornell style is focused on defense, the goalie doesn't get the trial-by-fire that he might in a more wide-open system.

LeNeveu was a great goalie but he seemed to RARELY see 20 shots a game. McKee was a less clearly great goalie (to me) but he might have had an even better defense in front of him. When they reached the next level it was probably shocking to be in the thick of the game for 60 minutes.

[hypotenuse]

Re Dryden- the famous picture is of him leaning on his stick bored to tears while Cornell was at the other end. I just missed Dryden, but it is easy to conclude that with Cornell typically up by a bunch of goals early on he was not really tested on a day in, day out basis. (I've always wondered about someone named George Swan, who seemed to share freshman goaltending duties with Dryden and had a lower goals against average.)

[Jordan 04]

[quote ugarte][quote Jim Hyla][quote Will][quote Rita][quote Trotsky]It's not a terrible thing to have a Nieuwendyk every twenty years or so to keep the Cornell name in the news at the NHL level.

What I would dearly love to have, though, is another Dryden.  Given the amazing numbers put up by Cornell goalies over nearly the last decade, a guy going on and becoming a Vezina contender might assure that Cornell gets the top college-bound goaltending prospect in perpetuity.[/quote]

Agreed, but do you think our goalies (now and in the future) will look at what has happened to McKee and Lenny (and even JMP) and realize that they might be better off staying in school for four years, rather than leaving after 2-3 years? [/quote]

Keith's description of a goaltender's potential path to the NHL aside, let's look at it this way:

McKee and LeNeveu - left school early and now floating around the minor leagues.
Dryden - stayed all four years, had an outstanding NHL career, became part of the Leafs' upper management, got elected to Canadian parliament, and is at times erroneously credited with the perfect '69-'70 season.

Kids, stay in school! :-D[/quote]

Maybe even better than Dryden are the examples of Darren Eliot and Brian Hayward. Both were good goalies when coming to CU. Both stayed 4 years and had good NHL careers. Certainly a different time, but both were more successful than our recent jumps.[/quote]
I admit that I don't know a lot about the particulars of coaching, much less teaching, hockey. At the same time, goaltender would seem to be the position least likely to benefit from seasoning at the college level - and to some degree, particularly at Cornell.

AFAIK, there are no goaltending specialists or former goalies on the coaching staff and because the Cornell style is focused on defense, the goalie doesn't get the trial-by-fire that he might in a more wide-open system.

LeNeveu was a great goalie but he seemed to RARELY see 20 shots a game. McKee was a less clearly great goalie (to me) but he might have had an even better defense in front of him. When they reached the next level it was probably shocking to be in the thick of the game for 60 minutes.[/quote]

McKee and Lenny also had a significant economic side of the decision to jump to the next level. I for one can't fault either if they saw greater utility in 7-figure contracts than they did in 2 additional years in the ECAC to hone their skills for possible greater success at the professional level.

[CowbellGuy]

[quote ugarte]AFAIK, there are no goaltending specialists or former goalies on the coaching staff and because the Cornell style is focused on defense, the goalie doesn't get the trial-by-fire that he might in a more wide-open system.[/quote]

That was going to be precisely my point. This year Ian Burt is the volunteer assistant coach, which is more than the goalies have had for years. No offense to Ian, but it's still hardly a golden carrot to dangle at prospective goalies. The system will certainly give you good numbers and get you noticed, but until Cornell really makes a serious effort with goalie coaching, I don't think there's any reason for them to stay. McKee was a reaction goalie who completely lacked the fundamentals to play pro hockey. He basically had to re-learn to play when he got there and the results speak for themselves. Lenny was fundamentally excellent coming in, but I don't think either one would have necessarily gotten better if they played here for 10 years. The best thing for them probably was to go to the minors and get proper instruction. It's kind of scary to think what someone like Lenny, with the team he had in front of him, could have done with a good coach. So while the reputation still lands Cornell the good recruits, they're really just being squandered.

[Steve Rockey]

Re:  Clarkson with 8 draft picks

Drew,

Actually I would love to know your thoughts.  I am quite puzzled by Clarkson's performance this year.

--Steve

[KeithK]

How typical is it for college teams to have dedicated goalie coaches, either volunteer or paid assistants?  Is the situation different in Juniors? I don't really have any idea here, so I'm not being argumentative.

[Rita]

[quote KeithK]How typical is it for college teams to have dedicated goalie coaches, either volunteer or paid assistants?  Is the situation different in Juniors? I don't really have any idea here, so I'm not being argumentative.[/quote]

To add onto Keith's question, how about in the ECHL/AHL?

I think it was on last nights Ducks-Redwings game Brian Haywood mentioned JS Giguere's (sp?) goalie coach was in town for a week or so. I think the Sharks Nabokov also has goalie coach that only visits him a couple of times during the season.

At least with these two examples, it doesn't seem like a of goalie development goes on at the NHL level; more like "tweaking and adjustments". So unless a young goalie ends up in an organization with a good dedicated goalie coach, their development still might be hampered.

I do not have schedules in front of me, but how more practice time do players have in JRs vs. more time riding on buses due to the increased number of games. I think in the ECHL most games are scheduled Friday - Sunday, so conceivably, they can get some quality practice time in during the week.

Of course predicting a college goalie's likelihood of success in the pros is like that of a college QB.. very much dependent on the organization, coaching staff and supporting players.

[CowbellGuy]

I think those are probably personal goalie coaches. I'm pretty sure every NHL team has a full-time goalie coach. There's plenty of coaching at the NHL level.

[ugarte]

[quote CowbellGuy]I think those are probably personal goalie coaches. I'm pretty sure every NHL team has a full-time goalie coach. There's plenty of coaching at the NHL level.[/quote]
And even the other goalie on the team is likely to have more experience than Ian Burt (no offense to Mr. Burt).

And even if every AHL team doesn't have a full-time goalie coach, I'm sure that the NHL goalie coach works with the players in the team's pipeline, at least during training camp.

[Jacob '06]

[quote ugarte][quote CowbellGuy]

And even if every AHL team doesn't have a full-time goalie coach, I'm sure that the NHL goalie coach works with the players in the team's pipeline, at least during training camp.[/quote]

This is the case for the Rangers, where their goalie coach works with all of the NHL and AHL goaltenders throughout the season. I assume thats the case for most organizations, especially ones where their AHL and NHL teams are in close proximity.

[CowbellGuy]

[quote Jacob '06]This is the case for the Rangers, where their goalie coach works with all of the NHL and AHL goaltenders throughout the season. I assume thats the case for most organizations, especially ones where their AHL and NHL teams are in close proximity.[/quote]
And his brother works for the Ducks

[Jeff Hopkins '82]

[quote Jacob '06][quote ugarte][quote CowbellGuy]

And even if every AHL team doesn't have a full-time goalie coach, I'm sure that the NHL goalie coach works with the players in the team's pipeline, at least during training camp.[/quote]

This is the case for the Rangers, where their goalie coach works with all of the NHL and AHL goaltenders throughout the season. I assume thats the case for most organizations, especially ones where their AHL and NHL teams are in close proximity.[/quote][/quote]

I'd be shocked if the Flyers' goalie coach, Reggie Lemelin, didn't work with the Phantoms goalies.