Cornell in Pairwise and KRACH

[CKinsland]

I had a typeII...couldn't lift my arm for weeks (and the most amazing bruise that spread down my torso).  Years later, I cringe when I think of it.  

When I watch football and they say some guy dislocated his shoulder 2 weeks ago and he's out there now...I wonder what the hell kind of drugs they're dispensing.

I wouldn't want to play hockey 1 week after any shoulder separation...type I or whatever.  I guess I'm just not that tough.

CK

[Killer]

[quote lynah80]Thank you, I didn't know there were 6 grades of shoulder separation.  So Advil is now the drug of choice.  No more "take two aspirin and call me in the morning"?[/quote]

When I was playing rugby, I got my knee banged up in a late-November game.  Knowing there was a hockey game that night, and that the training room would be staffed, I stopped in to have the knee examined.  The trainer told me it looked like I'd probably strained some ligaments (I think it turned out to be the MCL, but the memory is fuzzy).  Anyway, what I loved was his advice: "Take some aspirin and go out and have a few beers."

[Jim Hyla]

[quote Killer][quote lynah80]Thank you, I didn't know there were 6 grades of shoulder separation.  So Advil is now the drug of choice.  No more "take two aspirin and call me in the morning"?[/quote]

When I was playing rugby, I got my knee banged up in a late-November game.  Knowing there was a hockey game that night, and that the training room would be staffed, I stopped in to have the knee examined.  The trainer told me it looked like I'd probably strained some ligaments (I think it turned out to be the MCL, but the memory is fuzzy).  Anyway, what I loved was his advice: "Take some aspirin and go out and have a few beers."[/quote]Well, I'd find a new trainer. ASA and beer, great combo, if you want to have a bleeding ulcer that is.

[Robb]

Just perusing the current PWR (1/18), and noticed that things are really breaking our way in terms of TUCs.  It doesn't even show up in the PWR yet, since we've only played 7 TUC games right now, but we'll certainly hit 10 by the end of the ECAC tournament, which should help cement our PWR comparisons against several schools.

Right now, we're 5-1-1 against TUCs, with wins against (in RPI): #8 (Princeton), #15 (Dartmouth), #19 (SCSU), #21 (NoDak), and #24 (SLU), with our Tie against #16 (Quinnipiac). I think we can all remember the only team we lost to so far.  

On the outside looking in (at being TUCs) are #26 Yale, #28 Union, #31 Colgate, and #32 Niagara (unlikely to make it to TUC status, but boy wouldn't that be great?).  As far as ECAC teams, there's then a huge dropoff to #47 Harvard.

So SLU could bounce in or out, but if they are out, they'll probably be replaced by Yale or Union.  Looking at our schedule, then, our remaining games against possible TUCs are #26 Yale (x2), #24 SLU, #16 Quinnipiac, #8 Princeton, #15 Dartmouth, and #28 Union.

If we assume that only 1 of SLU, Yale, and Union ends up as a TUC, we'll end up the regular season with 11 games against TUCs (13 if 2 of the 3 are TUCs).  If SCSU and NoDak stay about where they are, then 9 of our 11 TUC games are against teams #15-25, and if 2 of SLU, Yale, and Union are there, then it's 11 out of 13!  Wow - talk about taking advantage of the TUC cliff...

Taking it one step farther (further?  Does a metaphorical step still count as distance?) into dangerous geekery territory: For TUC comparison purposes, it doesn't matter how OUR remaining TUC games go, since H2H games are not considered when calculating the TUC win % for PWR.  Therefore, if we currently have a better record against TUCs than team X, then team X has to improve its record against TUCs by beating someone other than Cornell.  (conversely, if team Y currently has a better TUC record than us, we have to beat other TUCs besides team Y to catch them).  Right now, the only team whose record vs. TUCs is better than ours is Princeton, at 6-1 (.857) (not counting their loss to us).  Our record against non-Princeton TUCs is 4-1-1 (.750).  To improve our TUC record enough to beat Princeton in this category, we'd need to win 5 more games vs. non-Princeton TUCs to get to 9-1-1 (.864) assuming that they maintain their current .857.

Flipping that around and looking at how many additional TUC wins the other 23 TUCs (not us and not Princeton) need to catch us, the team in the best shape is BU, who would only need 4 additional wins (and no more losses) to catch us.  Next are Notre Dame and USAFA at 7 wins each.  The other teams are all in double digits, from Dartmouth at 10 TUC wins needed up to North Dakota at 34.  North Dakota is an outlier, though because our only TUC loss was to them, so for TUC comparison purposes with them, our record is 4-0-1 (.900), so it takes a lot of wins for them to catch us.  Furthermore, each additional loss that one of these teams takes against a TUC means that they'd need approximately 4 more wins (on top of what they already needed) in order to catch us, since our win % is approximately 4-1.  In short, IF (big if) we can continue beating TUCs at a .786 clip, we're virtually guaranteed to pick up the TUC comparison category against every other team except Princeton when we hit 10 games.  Since we're already winning every PWR comparison without even taking TUCs into account...

Let's say Yale and SLU both end up as TUCs, giving us 6 more regular season games against TUCs. Assuming that we end up with the #1 seed in the ECAC tourney, our 2nd round games will be against (at best) the #8 ECAC team, who will not be a TUC.  Assuming we make it to Albany, though, those teams almost certainly will be TUCs, so that's a total of 8 more TUC games.  To maintain our current .786 clip, we'd have to go 6-1-1 in those games (5-1-2 is .750).  Even if we did slightly worse than that, we're so far ahead of most teams in TUC that we'll still take the TUC point to solidify the comparison.

This is actually a little bit more margin than I though we had - I was expecting to find out that we really couldn't afford to drop any TUC games, and am pleasantly surprised to find that we can.  But let's also not kid ourselves that going 6-1-1 in our remaining TUC games (including 2 at Albany) is any sort of cake walk, either.  Still, it's getting to the point in the season where you really have to start thinking that Cornell really does have a good shot at a #1 seed, if not the #1 overall.

[Josh '99]

[quote Jim Hyla][quote Killer][quote lynah80]Thank you, I didn't know there were 6 grades of shoulder separation.  So Advil is now the drug of choice.  No more "take two aspirin and call me in the morning"?[/quote]

When I was playing rugby, I got my knee banged up in a late-November game.  Knowing there was a hockey game that night, and that the training room would be staffed, I stopped in to have the knee examined.  The trainer told me it looked like I'd probably strained some ligaments (I think it turned out to be the MCL, but the memory is fuzzy).  Anyway, what I loved was his advice: "Take some aspirin and go out and have a few beers."[/quote]Well, I'd find a new trainer. ASA and beer, great combo, if you want to have a bleeding ulcer that is.[/quote]Out of curiosity, if one were to want to take painkillers and then go out drinking, what painkiller would be the best choice?

[ganderson]

To get the most bang for your buck, you want to give blood, THEN take a couple Asprin and go drinking.  It is... most impressive.

[Beeeej]

[quote Josh '99]Out of curiosity, if one were to want to take painkillers and then go out drinking, what painkiller would be the best choice?[/quote]

There is no such thing as a pharmaceutical painkiller with which it's safe to drink alcohol.  Sometimes the damage you're risking is more of a long-term nature, like the liver damage you can get from mixing alcohol with acetaminophen (Tylenol), so you won't feel it the next day or the next week, but it's still a risk.

[Jim Hyla]

[quote Josh '99][quote Jim Hyla][quote Killer][quote lynah80]Thank you, I didn't know there were 6 grades of shoulder separation.  So Advil is now the drug of choice.  No more "take two aspirin and call me in the morning"?[/quote]

When I was playing rugby, I got my knee banged up in a late-November game.  Knowing there was a hockey game that night, and that the training room would be staffed, I stopped in to have the knee examined.  The trainer told me it looked like I'd probably strained some ligaments (I think it turned out to be the MCL, but the memory is fuzzy).  Anyway, what I loved was his advice: "Take some aspirin and go out and have a few beers."[/quote]Well, I'd find a new trainer. ASA and beer, great combo, if you want to have a bleeding ulcer that is.[/quote]Out of curiosity, if one were to want to take painkillers and then go out drinking, what painkiller would be the best choice?[/quote]Tylenol, as far as over-the-counter meds. ASA, Advil, and Aleve (and their generic equivalents) can all bother the stomach, as can EtOH, and they all inhibit platelets. Platelets are blood clotting cells, so inhibiting them increases the chance of bleeding.::drunk::::help::

[Jim Hyla]

[quote Beeeej][quote Josh '99]Out of curiosity, if one were to want to take painkillers and then go out drinking, what painkiller would be the best choice?[/quote]

There is no such thing as a pharmaceutical painkiller with which it's safe to drink alcohol.  Sometimes the damage you're risking is more of a long-term nature, like the liver damage you can get from mixing alcohol with acetaminophen (Tylenol), so you won't feel it the next day or the next week, but it's still a risk.[/quote]Well, you'd need to take a lot of Tylenol for this to be a real issue. Taking 2 Tylenol and then going drinking is not a sig more risk than just going drinking. So if you need a painkiller, use Tylenol.

[Rosey]

[quote Jim Hyla]Well, you'd need to take a lot of Tylenol for this to be a real issue[/quote]
That's not as clear as you make it sound.

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2354/does-tylenol-alcohol-liver-failure-plus

[Jim Hyla]

[quote Kyle Rose][quote Jim Hyla]Well, you'd need to take a lot of Tylenol for this to be a real issue[/quote]
That's not as clear as you make it sound.

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2354/does-tylenol-alcohol-liver-failure-plus[/quote]Yes it is. These people all took sig doses of Tylenol, not 2 ESTylenol (2-500mg). And they were generally chronic alcoholics. So it is still safe to take 2 ESTylenol and go drinking. And of course, nothing is 100% safe, not even walking out your back door.

And the question was what painkiller would be the best choice, not which has no problems.

[Rosey]

[quote Jim Hyla]And the question was what painkiller would be the best choice, not which has no problems.[/quote]
NSAIDs/COX-2 inhibitors are fine, in that they have no specific alcohol interaction issues.  I don't know anything about aspirin, having never taken it myself.

I think it's prudent to avoid acetaminophen with alcohol because most people simply don't know if they're one of the people who will have an especially hard time metabolizing both at the same time.  Most people who mix the two will be fine; but why tempt fate?  Live with the headacheknee pain, or choose another drug.

[Ken70]

I think you're being a bit optimistic.  St Cloud isn't playing well and has a tough remaining schedule.  Quinnipiac is only .01 RPI points ahead of MN State.  

This is now conference time, with few NC games for any team.  As the marginal TUC teams in the ECAC play each other over the next 7 weeks, and given the RPI emphasis on OO records, all the ECAC teams including Cornell will gradually sink in RPI.  Best thing to hope for is the Q and Dartmouth finishing strong along with St Cloud and UMASS, and either Union or St Lawrence.  Then if things break right we'll get a couple TUCs in Allbany.  But it could be very, very close.  Given the strength of Hockey East and the WCHA don't be surprised to see Mass-Lowell or UMass, along with MN State, knock the likes of Union, St. Lawrence or the Q out of TUC.

[Jim Hyla]

[quote Kyle Rose][quote Jim Hyla]And the question was what painkiller would be the best choice, not which has no problems.[/quote]
NSAIDs/COX-2 inhibitors are fine, in that they have no specific alcohol interaction issues.  I don't know anything about aspirin, having never taken it myself.[/quote]Well, NSAIDs are not fine. ASA is an NSAID, and like all NSAIDs, except the one COX-2 Celebrex (not available except by Rx, so I don't think it applies here), all of them can interact with EtOH to cause GI upset. As I posted before they also all inhibit blood clotting. That is a bad thing if you develop stomach bleeding. Stomach problems from NSAIDs, with or without EtOH, are far more likely than liver problems from 2 Tylenol.


In medicine we don't deal in absolutes, although some lawyers would like you to believe that; we deal in likeliness. In this case I still feel strongly that 2 Tylenol with EtOH is a much safer combination.

[lynah80]

BU just dropped to #3 at INCH, with Cornell moving up to #2 (1/19/09).  INCH must have been disappointed by the PC loss, despite the win over BC and the amazing recovery of Matt Gilroy.

I wonder how injured Gilroy's shoulder really was in the Merrimack game.  Jack Parker (BU coach) said it was separated but he seems to have trouble keeping the details straight.  Here's a quote from CHN:

"Players should be protected and I haven't seen it done all year. A few minutes into the game we have a guy take a hit from behind, right in the numbers, and there doesn't seem to be any consequence (note: there was a five-minute major and a misconduct to Merrimack's Mickey Rego). My two guys got cold-cocked. Vicious runs by the opposition. There is no (expletive) need for that whatsoever, and they got two-minute penalties."

I don't want to belittle Gilroy's injury, but I do question Parker's credibility.