Cornell 3 North Dakota 7

[CM cWo 44]

Can't wait for the NoDak pregame show tomorrow to hear about how they struggle scoring goals and are facing the premier defensive team in college hockey.

[Rita]

[quote Trotsky][quote Rita]$120 (6 x $20) $140 in gift certificates have been given away to help stimulate the economy in Grand Forks.[/quote]Don't laugh.  That's half their GSP.[/quote]

Now a little more than half.

[Rita]

[quote CM cWo 44]Can't wait for the NoDak pregame show tomorrow to hear about how they struggle scoring goals and are facing the premier defensive team in college hockey.[/quote]

No need to wait, they have brought it up in the post-game comments.

[Omie]

Horrible performance by the Red. Only the Greening and R. Nash lines showed up to play and showd great hustle. But there was no defense, no goaltending, and untimely penalties. ND had 4 5x5 goals, which they had not been able to do since early Nov. I'm just really p***ed off right now.

Other teams were tested tonight and they showed up; Princeton beat NU and AF is destroying CC. Cornell not so much.

[ebilmes]

EZAC.

A NoDak team struggling offensively puts up SEVEN FUCKING GOALS against us tonight?

Major step back for the season. Can't wait to head back to that conference schedule.

[Cornell11]

freaking pathetic. nice job scrivens. save face and win tomorrow

i thought ND couldnt score??

[Goon]

[quote Omie]Deja vu?

Cornell loosing 6-3 against struggling team on a nationally televised game.[/quote]

I would say that UND is probably not as bad as their record.

[Rosey]

[quote Goon]I would say that UND is probably not as bad as their record.[/quote]
I will repeat my comments stretching back for years re: the ECAC.  Why this loyalty among Cornell fans to a mediocre conference?  Vermont had the right idea, and it's high time the few teams in the ECAC with a prayer of being nationally-competitive bolt for greener pastures, or at least slash the in-conference schedule to get more games against real teams.  I mean, it's nice to beat up on the kiddies year-in and year-out, but where's the sport in it?

[Jim Hyla]

[quote Kyle Rose][quote Goon]I would say that UND is probably not as bad as their record.[/quote]
I will repeat my comments stretching back for years re: the ECAC.  Why this loyalty among Cornell fans to a mediocre conference?  Vermont had the right idea, and it's high time the few teams in the ECAC with a prayer of being nationally-competitive bolt for greener pastures, or at least slash the in-conference schedule to get more games against real teams.  I mean, it's nice to beat up on the kiddies year-in and year-out, but where's the sport in it?[/quote]

So, you think that if we just jump into Hockey East we are suddenly going to be able to compete with all the scholarship schools? I don't know where that comes from. As hockey ,and pretty soon lacrosse, becomes more national, the scholarship schools will start draining off more and more talent. That leaves us with less and less. This happened with football, then basketball, baseball, and more and more woman's sports. Syracuse just started women's hockey and took SLU's coach. Watch and see what happens to those two programs over the next 10 years.

No, our best hope is to stay in a conference that at least has some of the ideals that we have; then we can compete and, as I've said before, we can be in the NCAAs often enough that we can hope. Glory years are over, and jumping conferences won't make the difference.

[Rosey]

[quote Jim Hyla]So, you think that if we just jump into Hockey East we are suddenly going to be able to compete with all the scholarship schools? I don't know where that comes from.[/quote]
At this point, I think the competition gap is a bigger one than the talent gap.  When a skilled team plays scrubs all the time, it's going to become very good at beating scrubs.

No, our best hope is to stay in a conference that at least has some of the ideals that we have; then we can compete and, as I've said before, we can be in the NCAAs often enough that we can hope.

...and so that Cornell hockey can eventually be as irrelevant as Cornell football.  Yaay!  Sign me up!  (Even if Cornell were to be the undisputed Ivy football champ for 10 years in a row, I still wouldn't give a shit.)

FWIW, I haven't seen the competition in the ECAC actually get worse over the past several years, but it isn't improving, either (overall: let's see if Princeton will continue its winning ways).  Eventually, that will take its toll.  Once the ECAC truly becomes a second-tier conference, those of you who love Ivy League football can finally have your hockey equivalent.

Glory years are over,

Bull.  Cornell has gotten past the first round of the NCAA tournament four times in the past decade, and gotten to the Frozen Four once, with another 2nd round loss in 2006 that could just as easily (well, maybe the wrong word for such an epic game) have been a win.

You may have given up hope, but I haven't: college hockey is never going to be the huge business that college football and basketball are.  That, if nothing else, will keep non-scholarship schools committed to their hockey programs nationally competitive until they (are forced to) stop charging tuition entirely.  That day is really less than two decades off, so don't abandon all hope yet.

Kyle

[Jim Hyla]

[quote Kyle Rose][quote Jim Hyla]So, you think that if we just jump into Hockey East we are suddenly going to be able to compete with all the scholarship schools? I don't know where that comes from.[/quote]
At this point, I think the competition gap is a bigger one than the talent gap.  When a skilled team plays scrubs all the time, it's going to become very good at beating scrubs.[/q]But we've not been very good at it, lately.

[q]No, our best hope is to stay in a conference that at least has some of the ideals that we have; then we can compete and, as I've said before, we can be in the NCAAs often enough that we can hope.

...and so that Cornell hockey can eventually be as irrelevant as Cornell football.  Yaay!  Sign me up!  (Even if Cornell were to be the undisputed Ivy football champ for 10 years in a row, I still wouldn't give a shit.)

FWIW, I haven't seen the competition in the ECAC actually get worse over the past several years, but it isn't improving, either (overall: let's see if Princeton will continue its winning ways).  Eventually, that will take its toll.  Once the ECAC truly becomes a second-tier conference, those of you who love Ivy League football can finally have your hockey equivalent.[/q] So you still haven't addressed how we'll compete with scholarship schools. We may have trouble with H,Y, & P with their tuition policies.

[q]Glory years are over,

Bull.  Cornell has gotten past the first round of the NCAA tournament four times in the past decade, and gotten to the Frozen Four once, with another 2nd round loss in 2006 that could just as easily (well, maybe the wrong word for such an epic game) have been a win.

You may have given up hope, but I haven't: college hockey is never going to be the huge business that college football and basketball are.  That, if nothing else, will keep non-scholarship schools committed to their hockey programs nationally competitive until they (are forced to) stop charging tuition entirely.  That day is really less than two decades off, so don't abandon all hope yet.

Kyle[/quote]So CU is eventually going to stop charging tuition?

[Rosey]

[quote Jim Hyla]So CU is eventually going to stop charging tuition?[/quote]
It's going to have to: the schools you mentioned (among others) will eventually stop charging tuition, and Cornell is going to have to do the same to have a prayer of competing for top students and student athletes.  I'm not sure how they're going to do it, given how badly out-of-favor Cornell's financial numbers are compared to the other Ivy League schools... but I trust they'll figure something out. ;-)

[Omie]

They have already virtually adopted Harvard's under $60K income policy by eliminating loans and family contributions in that packet and just leaving summer savings. It will take longer but the school is aware its financial aid needs to keep par with the rest. They also increased the financial aid goal of the capital campaign by a couple hundred million.

[ugarte]

[quote Kyle Rose][quote Jim Hyla]So CU is eventually going to stop charging tuition?[/quote]
It's going to have to: the schools you mentioned (among others) will eventually stop charging tuition, and Cornell is going to have to do the same to have a prayer of competing for top students and student athletes.  I'm not sure how they're going to do it, given how badly out-of-favor Cornell's financial numbers are compared to the other Ivy League schools... but I trust they'll figure something out. ;-)[/quote]
I don't think that Cornell - or Harvard for that matter - is about to give up tuition entirely. I do think that Cornell is better situated than a lot of the Ivy League to compete with scholarship schools because of the deep recruiting roots in Canada.

I've always gotten the impression that while hockey is a bit of a rich kids sport in the parts of the country that Cornell stands a chance of recruiting (ie, not WCHA turf), in Canada that isn't as much the case. So even though we can't give Canadian kids "hockey scholarships," the players we recruit are of modest means and can be given preferential admission and need-based aid, which is tantamount to an athletic scholarship. It is also easier for Cornell to give preferential admission than H-Y-P.

I do know that I have no interest in leaving a conference in which all of our historical rivals play just to toughen up the schedule.

[Trotsky]

[quote Jim Hyla]So, you think that if we just jump into Hockey East we are suddenly going to be able to compete with all the scholarship schools? I don't know where that comes from. As hockey ,and pretty soon lacrosse, becomes more national, the scholarship schools will start draining off more and more talent. That leaves us with less and less. This happened with football, then basketball, baseball, and more and more woman's sports. Syracuse just started women's hockey and took SLU's coach. Watch and see what happens to those two programs over the next 10 years.

No, our best hope is to stay in a conference that at least has some of the ideals that we have; then we can compete and, as I've said before, we can be in the NCAAs often enough that we can hope. Glory years are over, and jumping conferences won't make the difference.[/quote]Or the Ivies could rethink their scholarship model, and that's already happening.


The Ivy League, and most of us who went through it, are still caught worshiping the 19th Century ideal of the "gentleman athlete."  Its genesis wasn't even particularly related to a preference for academics over athletics -- it was just another bar to the Great Unwashed, a prole tax.

As has been said, all of the Ivies will eventually have to eliminate the financial burden on high-demand low and even middle class applicants, or lose them.  The economic motives of a first line center are no different from those of a first chair cellist.