The Athletic Department and Cornell Hockey

[ebilmes]

I figure this is as good a time as any to bring up an issue that's been rattling around for a while in my head. Forgive the billhoward-like length.

Why does the Cornell athletic department treat hockey (and hockey fans) so differently from the way it treats other sports at Cornell? Why do its hockey policies differ so much from the policies of other schools towards their respective "major" sports?

The obvious answer to the first question is that men's hockey is the big sport at Cornell. It attracts the most fans, due in part to a long tradition of winning and also to the fun, sometimes raucous atmosphere at Lynah. Athletics doesn't have to hand out cheap tickets to fill the seats.

But it might be nice if that changed.

You can go next door to see the basketball team clinch an NCAA tournament berth for $3. The homecoming football game was free for students, and they gave away pizzas and t-shirts. As they did at every other game this season. The Greek house with the best attendance at football games received a hot tub. The Greek house with the best attendance at one of last weekend's wrestling matches won a booze cruise around the lake.

If you're so inclined, you can shout "fuck em up, fuck em up" at Newman. There are no ushers standing in the aisles to glare at you. In fact, there are students there waiting to pass out artificial noisemakers so you can be LOUDER. Come to a basketball game or a wrestling match and get a free t-shirt.

Sleep in the Ramin Room and cough up $247 for tickets, and they make you pay an extra $5 for the Lynah Faithful shirt. At $13 a game, you're better off saving money by traveling to road games. Doesn't it say something when it's considerably cheaper to see games on the road? Or when you pay practically the same amount to watch the team skate to a 0-0 exhibition tie against Trois-Rivieres as you do to see them play BU at Madison Square Garden?

For $20, a townie can buy a voucher good for four tickets to a home basketball game, four sodas, and four hot dogs. The 'luxury boxes' in the back of the townie sections at Lynah sell for $13,000 per season.

I feel appreciated if I go to a basketball game or wrestling match. I am showered with free stuff. It's a cheap ticket. If I get there early, I can grab a great seat.

I show up to Lynah at least 45 minutes before every game, but I have to sit in my assigned seat. The three rows in front of me remain empty until at least midway through the first period, if they fill up at all. Ushers frisk me to stop me from participating in a decades-old, fabled tradition that has gotten publicity in the New York Times and contributes to the impressive reputation of Lynah. Schafer likes the fish tradition. I like to swear twice each game, during Gary Glitter, but I always need to turn around to make sure there's no usher standing right behind me (as happened once last year).

With hockey, it seems like the authorities are looking for any excuse to throw a fan out. With other sports, the authorities actively try to increase fan attendance.

Hockey sells out because we have been good in the recent past. We were a .500 team last year, and won't make Albany this year. How many more years can Athletics ride this wave? I got a B in ECON 102 – I know a little about supply and demand. Athletics can gouge townies because there's a huge demand for those tickets. They can gouge students because there's a high demand for tickets. If basketball has another good season next year, and if hockey struggles again, we could see a shift of fans over to Newman. Will Athletics have to drop season ticket prices?

More importantly, I think it's unethical to charge students so much. At other, larger schools with successful sports teams, tickets for football or basketball games are cheaper (and sometimes free). The only thing required is to get to the game early, or go somewhere the day before, to pick up a ticket.

The inside cover of this season's media guide is ripe with pictures of the Faithful.

There may be bigger and newer venues in college hockey, but few places make visiting teams tremble as much as Lynah Rink does. From the stands rising sharply from the ice surface to the raucous cheers from the student section...Lynah Rink is a place like no other. Students camp out overnight for a chance to select their season tickets, hoping for one of the coveted spots in Section A [sic]. Cornell, backed by the fierce devotion of the Lynah Faithful, has enjoyed unparalleled success at home, recording a 452-166-47 mark in the 665 games played since the building opened prior to the 1957-58 season.

We all know the fans at Lynah are important. So why not let us know? Reduce the ticket prices. Throw in some free stuff (and I'm not just talking about the occasional candy bar tossed from the ice). Don't crusade for a family-friendly atmosphere at Lynah without caring what happens next door or across the street. Organize buses to road games. Don't throw us out of the games. Once we've graduated and left Ithaca, do your best to make sure we can watch the games online.

I dedicate a lot of time and money (though still not as much as others) to watching Cornell hockey. It would be nice to occasionally get something in return.

[redhair34]

[quote ebilmes]
More importantly, I think it's unethical to charge students so much. At other, larger schools with successful sports teams, tickets for football or basketball games are cheaper (and sometimes free). The only thing required is to get to the game early, or go somewhere the day before, to pick up a ticket.
[/quote]

You make some interesting points and bring up some things that I've often considered.  I'll reserve comment for now, but I wanted to add that I believe student tickets at Lynah are more expensive than student hockey tickets at every other school in the country.  The USCHO board occasionally has a thread on this and the most I think I've seen from other schools is 10 or 11 dollars.

[BMac]

I can't disagree. There's no reason why there aren't AD organized buses to the away games. There's no reason why I should spend an unbelievable amount of time and energy at Lynah and feel like a criminal, then go to a Newman game for nearly free and be allowed more liberty.

I understand why they charge what they do at Lynah- because they can. But it sucks, and at some point we have to say that it's unfair to the students. With the price increase and ticket lottery, they have already had a significant impact on the Lynah atmosphere from my freshman year until now, my senior year. Section B is significantly weaker, for example (I've stood in B and A for fours years- I know this from experience). Fewer voices are heard during the games.

On a side note, though, I would like to mention that the Section A ushers on the other side of B, the gentleman with the Giants hat and the lady at the top, are very nice, polite, and respectful. They've made the experience in A much better than when the AD police cracked down in '05-06.

[mnagowski]

[quote ebilmes]I show up to Lynah at least 45 minutes before every game, but I have to sit in my assigned seat. The three rows in front of me remain empty until at least midway through the first period, if they fill up at all.[/quote]

While I haven't been to a game at Lynah since Senior Night 2005, from what I can gather I think it's pretty obvious that the lottery system is doing a disservice to long-time fans, the players, and to the program in general. While no system is perfect, I can't help but think that policies could be put into place that would reward the Faithful a little bit more

Even so, it's nice to know that other schools encounter similar problems and sometimes adopt perverse rules as well:

http://www.wral.com/sports/story/2284447/

But more generally, if you are a current student who is upset about current Athletics Department policies or the state of Lynah fandom, I would encourage you to get involved and develop some sort of working group or student club to address your concerns. Write a guest column for the Daily Sun or encourage a hearing in front of the SA (we all know that they could afford do something productive with their time).

Likewise, if the CHA is no longer chartering buses for away games (and I must say, I was disappointed with the student turnout at the RIT game this year, at a venue only 80 minutes away), you could always look into starting your own registered student organization that seeks SAFC funding for that very purpose.

I also think that if you go through the appropriate channels and start the right conversation with the right groups and individuals (e.g. the SA, the Dean of Students, the CHA, the AD, the Pep Band, etc.) you will find that the administration would be more than willing to listen to your concerns and work to improve the experience for everybody. It may seem needlessly bureaucratic at times, but that's the way the world works.

[amerks127]

Great post Elie.

I'd like to point out that Ohio State, which only has 1,000 student tickets, gives them away for free.  Even when they played Michigan in a #1 vs. #2 weekend match up.

The best solution is, and remains, to be cheap general admission.  You want to sit in B or A, get to the game early and claim your seat.  These days, you purchase a seat for the section and sit in the general vicinity of your seat...unless of course someone makes the annual complaint during the Sucks game that they got to the game late and someone is already standing in their seat and they can't move two rows back.

[French Rage]

[quote redhair34][quote ebilmes]
More importantly, I think it's unethical to charge students so much. At other, larger schools with successful sports teams, tickets for football or basketball games are cheaper (and sometimes free). The only thing required is to get to the game early, or go somewhere the day before, to pick up a ticket.
[/quote]

You make some interesting points and bring up some things that I've often considered.  I'll reserve comment for now, but I wanted to add that I believe student tickets at Lynah are more expensive than student hockey tickets at every other school in the country.  The USCHO board occasionally has a thread on this and the most I think I've seen from other schools is 10 or 11 dollars.[/quote]

I don't know about that, I think it depends on the team and sometimes the arena.  Smaller schools with weaker programs seem to cost less than Cornell, but if you look at any of the big time programs, especially those with much larger arenas, and specifically those recently built (and thus are still being paid alot for) (like North Dakota or BU) seems to charge in the area of $25 or so.

I left in '04 when the SA was still subsidizing alot so it was less than $10 per game.  Is the $13 per game without subsidization?

[ebilmes]

[quote French Rage]
I left in '04 when the SA was still subsidizing alot so it was less than $10 per game.  Is the $13 per game without subsidization?[/quote]

No, I think it's $13 with minimal subsidization from the SA.

[ebilmes]

[quote metaezra]I also think that if you go through the appropriate channels and start the right conversation with the right groups and individuals (e.g. the SA, the Dean of Students, the CHA, the AD, the Pep Band, etc.) you will find that the administration would be more than willing to listen to your concerns and work to improve the experience for everybody. It may seem needlessly bureaucratic at times, but that's the way the world works.[/quote]

I appreciate your advice. I don't have a lot of time to devote to this, but I will talk with amerks127 tomorrow about a road to take from here. I have written several letters to the Sun editor about this, but none of them have been printed. I especially liked your idea about starting an organization that uses SAFC funding to subsidize trips to away games.

[billhoward]

The OSU's Jerome Schottenstein Center (Value City Arena) has a capacity of 17,500, so if The Buckeyes give away 1,000 tickets to students, they still have plenty of seats left to sell.

[Will]

As I see it, the reasoning behind why hockey tickets prices are so exorbitant goes beyond "because they can" into "because they need to".  Money taken in from hockey has to pay not just for hockey but for the 35 other varsity sports offered by the university.  Most of those sports aren't bringing in any money at all by way of ticket prices.  Lacrosse, football, and basketball bring in some money, but probably not a lot relative to hockey, this year's basketball success not withstanding.  (Of course, if that success becomes a regular thing, I'm sure the seats will be filled more often, accompanied by a spike in ticket prices.)  But hockey needs to support a lot more than just hockey.  I don't particularly like this idea, but I understand it.

[evilnaturedrobot]

[quote Will]As I see it, the reasoning behind why hockey tickets prices are so exorbitant goes beyond "because they can" into "because they need to".  Money taken in from hockey has to pay not just for hockey but for the 35 other varsity sports offered by the university.  Most of those sports aren't bringing in any money at all by way of ticket prices.  Lacrosse, football, and basketball bring in some money, but probably not a lot relative to hockey, this year's basketball success not withstanding.  (Of course, if that success becomes a regular thing, I'm sure the seats will be filled more often, accompanied by a spike in ticket prices.)  But hockey needs to support a lot more than just hockey.  I don't particularly like this idea, but I understand it.[/quote]

It's not the prices that bother me that much (we're still talking about a fraction of NHL prices), but rather the fact that we're so often treated like criminals waiting to be caught.  I was sitting in section A at 6:10 yesterday and got treated to 40 minutes of being stared at by some bearded usher in the bottom of the section.  I mean one of the Lynah cops actually wears a bullet proof vest...how many hockey fans are walking into the rink packing heat?


If the Lynah faithful are indeed supporting the rest of the athletic department financially, then they should be getting more favorable treatment, not less.  Few businesses treat their biggest customers with the least respect.

[DeltaOne81]

[quote evilnaturedrobot]
It's not the prices that bother me that much (we're still talking about a fraction of NHL prices), but rather the fact that we're so often treated like criminals waiting to be caught.  I was sitting in section A at 6:10 yesterday and got treated to 40 minutes of being stared at by some bearded usher in the bottom of the section.  I mean one of the Lynah cops actually wears a bullet proof vest...how many hockey fans are walking into the rink packing heat?[/quote]

If Keith & Kyle have their way, all of them

[amerks127]

My bad...I meant Miami Ohio, not Ohio State.  Miami Ohio, which plays at the brand new Steve Cady Arena, gives away 1,000 student tickets out of 3,200 seats.

[Josh '99]

[quote evilnaturedrobot]It's not the prices that bother me that much (we're still talking about a fraction of NHL prices), but rather the fact that we're so often treated like criminals waiting to be caught.  I was sitting in section A at 6:10 yesterday and got treated to 40 minutes of being stared at by some bearded usher in the bottom of the section./quote]I was about to post the same thing.  To me, the prices charged (a reflection of both the demand for tickets and the need to fund other programs that Will mentioned) are a separate issue from the other stuff that you and Elie mentioned.  I'm probably biased from living in NYC, but $13 (if I recall correctly what was said upthread) to go to a hockey game doesn't seem so bad, especially since (in my view and probably that of others on this board) it's the best thing going in Ithaca on a typical winter Friday or Saturday evening.  Sure, it's more expensive than "free", but it doesn't seem unreasonable.

The other stuff, though, is unreasonable.

[Trotsky]

As a reminder, it's not the ushers' fault.  They don't set policy and if they  don't follow policy, they lose their jobs.  Be polite and respectful to them and I'm sure they will treat you the same way.  Be an ass or a wanna-be civil rights attorney, and take the consequences.

Seems fair to me.