Recruiting and Financial Aid

[ugarte]

[quote Jim Hyla]
Well here we go again. I think I agree with ugarte that Josh was probably trying to be funny, but we shouldn't have to try and decipher whether something is meant in jest. That is why we have emoticons. Age has provided us with more than we need for these usual cases. Please use them.[/quote]
We're going to have to agree to disagree. Not to claim similar quality in my truly insignificant work. but let's just say that "A Modest Proposal" would not be either good nor famous if it ended with :-P

[DeltaOne81]

[quote ugarte]
but let's just say that "A Modest Proposal" would not be either good nor famous if it ended with :-P[/quote]

... your standup however...
< rim shot >

[mnagowski]

In the final installment in the series, Perlin suggests that some of the other Ivies may be moving to a more "merit-based" system of financial aid.

http://cornellsun.com/node/27969

Noel agreed, and offered another reason why other schools can offer better packages.

"I fear that the more attractive the candidate, the more creative and generous the schools may be in packaging aid for the student," he said.

Noel believes that schools have found ways to "creatively finance" athletes by designating some students as "high priority," such as certain minorities or genders. By applying this standard to all students, it allows schools to better package financial aid.

Penn Director of Athletics Steve Bilsky declined to comment on his school's specific practices.

"There are variables that allow some ability to be subjective in [matching financial aid packages]," Bilsky said. "[Penn does] not have the resources to match Harvard's policy. ... So, our coaches can't go out and say, whatever Harvard does, we will match your package. That would be a short-term solution to say that. But that would cost so much, that my guess would be most of the schools in the league won't do that and can't do that."

[Josh '99]

[quote metaezra]In the final installment in the series, Perlin suggests that some of the other Ivies may be moving to a more "merit-based" system of financial aid.

http://cornellsun.com/node/27969

Noel agreed, and offered another reason why other schools can offer better packages.

"I fear that the more attractive the candidate, the more creative and generous the schools may be in packaging aid for the student," he said.

Noel believes that schools have found ways to "creatively finance" athletes by designating some students as "high priority," such as certain minorities or genders. By applying this standard to all students, it allows schools to better package financial aid.

[/quote]Sounds like an open admission of the already-existing unspoken reality.

[mnagowski]

[quote Josh '99]Sounds like an open admission of the already-existing unspoken reality.[/quote]

Has there ever been anything documenting the sort of practices you allude to? I find it hard to believe that the word wouldn't get out if there was some sort of gross evasion of policies going on.

There's an excellent discussion of the various ramifications of these policy changes taking place here:

http://www.voy.com/152805/51374.html

[Josh '99]

[quote metaezra][quote Josh '99]Sounds like an open admission of the already-existing unspoken reality.[/quote]

Has there ever been anything documenting the sort of practices you allude to? I find it hard to believe that the word wouldn't get out if there was some sort of gross evasion of policies going on.

There's an excellent discussion of the various ramifications of these policy changes taking place here:

http://www.voy.com/152805/51374.html[/quote]I don't really know whether there's documentation, but I kind of thought there was an understanding that there's some wiggle-room within the scope of "need-based financial aid only" to tweak things in order to have a student body of diverse talents, backgrounds, etc., and that that wiggle room was occasionally used to benefit recruiting.  (I'm sure there's a wisecrack I've heard before about how "need-based financial aid" was allocated to reflect the fact that we need a left winger with a good shot, or something like that.  Yes, I know I'm not getting the line right.)

[jeh25]

[quote Josh '99][quote metaezra][quote Josh '99]Sounds like an open admission of the already-existing unspoken reality.[/quote]

Has there ever been anything documenting the sort of practices you allude to? I find it hard to believe that the word wouldn't get out if there was some sort of gross evasion of policies going on.

There's an excellent discussion of the various ramifications of these policy changes taking place here:

http://www.voy.com/152805/51374.html[/quote]I don't really know whether there's documentation, but I kind of thought there was an understanding that there's some wiggle-room within the scope of "need-based financial aid only" to tweak things in order to have a student body of diverse talents, backgrounds, etc., and that that wiggle room was occasionally used to benefit recruiting.  (I'm sure there's a wisecrack I've heard before about how "need-based financial aid" was allocated to reflect the fact that we need a left winger with a good shot, or something like that.  Yes, I know I'm not getting the line right.)[/quote]

This doesn't match my understanding in so far as the FAFSA need formula was pretty much the end of the story in terms of determining need. That said, if FAFSA says you need $17k a year of aid, 17k of grant is a wholly different story than 5k work study + 2k grant + 10k of loans.

Now the fact that Cornell Tradition gives you $4k in grant money in lieu of loans, and varsity sports involvement counts towards the community service requirement may represent some of your historical wiggle. That said, I dunno how many hockey players have actually been Cornell Tradition fellows.

[Josh '99]

[quote jeh25]That said, if FAFSA says you need $17k a year of aid, 17k of grant is a wholly different story than 5k work study + 2k grant + 10k of loans. [/quote]That's certainly true.  Beyond that I'm really not sure of the particulars and it's been a while since I've thought about this stuff.

[mttgrmm]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/25/education/25brown.html?ex=1361682000&en=7deef454519f17ae&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

brown's now doing the same thing, no tuition under 60k, no loans under 100k.  there's likely some sort of phasing-out after 100k, i doubt that 101k gets you a more traditional loan-heavy aid package.  the article doesn't go into detail on it, so it very well might be a cliff at 100k, but i doubt it.