Time for a change

[ugarte]

[quote Al DeFlorio][quote ugarte][quote Townie]....or lacrosse, who scrimmaged Hopkins today and won 12-8.[/quote]
Or wrestling, which is likely to sweep the Ivy League again, is a top 20 (at least) team and could have as many as 6 All-Americans (Gray, Lewnes, Anceravage, Leen, Arnone and Hammond).[/quote]
And who nipped Penn today in maybe the craziest match in a long time.  Two ranked Cornell wrestlers (Hammond and Arnone) were upset, Lewnes didn't wrestle, Cornell trailed by three with two matches to go:  125, where our unranked Rodriguez was up against their #8 ranked-nationally Peterkin, and our #2-ranked Grey facing an unranked Penn guy.  Rodriguez jumps up and majors Peterkin, 14-4, to put Cornell up by one and Grey handles his guy 14-7 to avoid the upset.  Rodriguez's win rivals last night's basketball finish on the amazing scale.[/quote]
And followed that by beating Princeton 48-0 in only 9 matches, since they decided not to wrestle Hwt. (don't know why yet).

[Al DeFlorio]

[quote ugarte]And followed that by beating Princeton 48-0 in only 9 matches, since they decided not to wrestle Hwt. (don't know why yet).[/quote]
Hammond was hurt in the Penn match.  Hyperextended elbow, maybe.

Princeton forfeited three of the nine matches and four were won by fall.

[Beeeej]

[quote redice]That said, I will simply say that if you're not happy with the play of the men's hockey team, go watch the basketball team.   They're winning more than the hockey team.   That should make you happy.....[/quote]

I find the implication that being unhappy with losing three games in a row means I'm not a real Cornell hockey fan extraordinarily offensive.  There's a huge gap between the spoiled younger fans who think we're supposed to get to the NCAA quarterfinals every year with ease, and the long-term fans who wish we were capable of holding our position in the standings against teams we should be able to beat.

Do I have any suggestions for the coach?  No, I think there's a reason he has the job and I don't.  So perhaps that's what was behind your suggestion.  But if that's the case, you need to work on your suggestions a lot more carefully.

[ftyuv]

[quote Beeeej][quote redice]That said, I will simply say that if you're not happy with the play of the men's hockey team, go watch the basketball team.   They're winning more than the hockey team.   That should make you happy.....[/quote]

I find the implication that being unhappy with losing three games in a row means I'm not a real Cornell hockey fan extraordinarily offensive.  There's a huge gap between the spoiled younger fans who think we're supposed to get to the NCAA quarterfinals every year with ease, and the long-term fans who wish we were capable of holding our position in the standings against teams we should be able to beat.

Do I have any suggestions for the coach?  No, I think there's a reason he has the job and I don't.  So perhaps that's what was behind your suggestion.  But if that's the case, you need to work on your suggestions a lot more carefully.[/quote]

I'll take that and add that what you (redice) have basically advocated is a philosophy of "if you don't like something, don't try to change it for the better; just abandon ship."

[ugarte]

[quote Al DeFlorio][quote ugarte]And followed that by beating Princeton 48-0 in only 9 matches, since they decided not to wrestle Hwt. (don't know why yet).[/quote]
Hammond was hurt in the Penn match.  Hyperextended elbow, maybe.[/quote]
I knew that Hammond was hurt; I didn't know why we didn't wrestle Jochym in his place. Apparently Princeton's Hwt. was ill and I guess Koll didn't feel the need to accept another forfeit just to make it 54-0.

[redice]

[quote Beeeej][quote redice]That said, I will simply say that if you're not happy with the play of the men's hockey team, go watch the basketball team.   They're winning more than the hockey team.   That should make you happy.....[/quote]

I find the implication that being unhappy with losing three games in a row means I'm not a real Cornell hockey fan extraordinarily offensive.  There's a huge gap between the spoiled younger fans who think we're supposed to get to the NCAA quarterfinals every year with ease, and the long-term fans who wish we were capable of holding our position in the standings against teams we should be able to beat.

Do I have any suggestions for the coach?  No, I think there's a reason he has the job and I don't.  So perhaps that's what was behind your suggestion.  But if that's the case, you need to work on your suggestions a lot more carefully.[/quote]

OMG Beeeej!!   My comments were directed to some of the people posting above me in this thread.   It was not directed at EVERY CU Hockey fan in the universe.   I think we're being a little touchy here..    And, when I feel a need  for advice on my "suggestions", I'll PM you...;-)  Tnx.    BTW, I'm never happy when the hockey team loses!!   I hope that's okay with the hockey gods.....

ftyuv:  I don't necessarily view some of the early posts in this thread as an attempt to "change it for the better".    They were just simply criticisms.    If we held any delusions that Mike & his assistant coaches A) read this forum  and/or  B) give any credence to the opinions expressed here, then these discussions could fall within the realm of trying to make things better.   Since A & B in very unlikely to be the case, it's just criticisms.

[ftyuv]

There's something to that, redice, but just because someone can't actually effect a change, doesn't mean they should be chastised for wanting it.  It's not like fans lamenting what they see as a weakness in their team, even if they don't have any control over it, is without precedence... makes for interesting chatter between the mob-mentality LGRs.  ;-)

And it's not like the OP is totally out of left field on this point, imho.  The subject has been brought up before (I don't have stats, but anecdotally I feel like it usually gets bashed as it has here), and I think there's certainly a point to be made about the coaching staff lagging behind the curve in managing the smaller, faster type of play.  Sure Cornell's doing well in the ECAC, but the conference as a whole isn't exactly a powerhouse as it goes though this transition.

[redice]

[quote ftyuv]
And it's not like the OP is totally out of left field on this point, imho.  The subject has been brought up before (I don't have stats, but anecdotally I feel like it usually gets bashed as it has here), and I think there's certainly a point to be made about the coaching staff lagging behind the curve in managing the smaller, faster type of play.  Sure Cornell's doing well in the ECAC, but the conference as a whole isn't exactly a powerhouse as it goes though this transition.[/quote]

You're right in saying "there's certainly a point to be made about the coaching staff lagging behind the curve in managing the smaller, faster type of play."   I may not agree with that point.  But, it's point well worthy of discussion.  

I've long been of the opinion that Cornell's greatest chance for success at the national level is to bring in a group of disciplined & physical players who can be taught to play defense in the Mike Shafer mold.   Defensive hockey can be taught.   Offensive hockey is much more of a style based on raw talent.   I don't think Cornell (or most Ivys, in general), will ever have the recruiting draw that will bring in enough snipers to win with an offensive style.  

It's not as much fun to watch.  But, I prefer shut-down defensive hockey that wins games.   The 2002-03 team is a good example.

[Beeeej]

[quote redice][quote Beeeej][quote redice]That said, I will simply say that if you're not happy with the play of the men's hockey team, go watch the basketball team.   They're winning more than the hockey team.   That should make you happy.....[/quote]

I find the implication that being unhappy with losing three games in a row means I'm not a real Cornell hockey fan extraordinarily offensive.  There's a huge gap between the spoiled younger fans who think we're supposed to get to the NCAA quarterfinals every year with ease, and the long-term fans who wish we were capable of holding our position in the standings against teams we should be able to beat.

Do I have any suggestions for the coach?  No, I think there's a reason he has the job and I don't.  So perhaps that's what was behind your suggestion.  But if that's the case, you need to work on your suggestions a lot more carefully.[/quote]

OMG Beeeej!!   My comments were directed to some of the people posting above me in this thread.   It was not directed at EVERY CU Hockey fan in the universe.   I think we're being a little touchy here..    And, when I feel a need  for advice on my "suggestions", I'll PM you...;-)  Tnx.    BTW, I'm never happy when the hockey team loses!!   I hope that's okay with the hockey gods.....[/quote]

You're never happy when the hockey team loses?  Well, why don't you go watch the damn hoops team, then?!  ::smashfreak::

Sorry, but even now in context with your explanation, the implication seems clear, at least to me - you can be unhappy about the hockey team doing poorly, but if you complain about it or have the temerity to offer solutions, you don't deserve to be a member of the Faithful.  I stand by my original "work on your suggestions" suggestion.  :-)

[RichH]

[quote Beeeej][quote redice]That said, I will simply say that if you're not happy with the play of the men's hockey team, go watch the basketball team.   They're winning more than the hockey team.   That should make you happy.....[/quote]

I find the implication that being unhappy with losing three games in a row means I'm not a real Cornell hockey fan extraordinarily offensive.  There's a huge gap between the spoiled younger fans who think we're supposed to get to the NCAA quarterfinals every year with ease, and the long-term fans who wish we were capable of holding our position in the standings against teams we should be able to beat.

Do I have any suggestions for the coach?  No, I think there's a reason he has the job and I don't.  So perhaps that's what was behind your suggestion.  But if that's the case, you need to work on your suggestions a lot more carefully.[/quote]

Screw you all.  I'm going to go watch polo.  They win national championships often.

Personally, I don't get the "win at all costs.  If you don't, I'm not going to watch" mentality.  I guess it's the frontrunner/bandwagon attitude in American sports.  Trinity College packs in over 1000 fans for squash matches.  Why?  They haven't lost a match since Feb. 1998.  Winning breeds fans who learn about the game, but I bet that half the students there would even think about going to a squash match if their team weren't so dominant.  

Me?  I really like hockey and lacrosse.  I'm going to go to games and watch even if CU gets blown out 15-0 every game.  Personally, I just don't like the sport of basketball.  I root for the Cornell team to do well because I like to see my college's athletic teams succeed, and I support the great dedication that true student-athletes demonstrate.  It's just the same as with volleyball, field hockey, crew, etc.  I'm just as likely to go to one of those events as I am a CU basketball game.

Sorry for this cross-thread quoting, but I think it's appropriate here.  On the NY Times blog thread on the "other sports" forum, jksnake06 said:
[quote jksnake06]
I think its time to take a break from hockey and lacrosse and focus on Men's and Women's hoops. They have a chance to bring a lot of national attention to Cornell. [/quote]

Anyone telling me that I need to go pay attention to "X" instead of the one that I like because we're really good doesn't really fly with me.  I would never try take away from the people who do happen to really like basketball or wrestling or whatever.  If I do go to one of the other events (I went to Cornell @ Yale basketball) it's because I enjoy the contest, the school spirit/comraderie, and spending time with friends.

Back to this thread, when you start saying the "I demand for the program to be successful.  Turn it around or you'll lose my support," I feel like we've lost track of what collegiate sports are supposed to be.

[redice]

[quote Beeeej][quote redice][quote Beeeej][quote redice]That said, I will simply say that if you're not happy with the play of the men's hockey team, go watch the basketball team.   They're winning more than the hockey team.   That should make you happy.....[/quote]

I find the implication that being unhappy with losing three games in a row means I'm not a real Cornell hockey fan extraordinarily offensive.  There's a huge gap between the spoiled younger fans who think we're supposed to get to the NCAA quarterfinals every year with ease, and the long-term fans who wish we were capable of holding our position in the standings against teams we should be able to beat.

Do I have any suggestions for the coach?  No, I think there's a reason he has the job and I don't.  So perhaps that's what was behind your suggestion.  But if that's the case, you need to work on your suggestions a lot more carefully.[/quote]




OMG Beeeej!!   My comments were directed to some of the people posting above me in this thread.   It was not directed at EVERY CU Hockey fan in the universe.   I think we're being a little touchy here..    And, when I feel a need  for advice on my "suggestions", I'll PM you...;-)  Tnx.    BTW, I'm never happy when the hockey team loses!!   I hope that's okay with the hockey gods.....[/quote]

You're never happy when the hockey team loses?  Well, why don't you go watch the damn hoops team, then?!  ::smashfreak::

Sorry, but even now in context with your explanation, the implication seems clear, at least to me - you can be unhappy about the hockey team doing poorly, but if you complain about it or have the temerity to offer solutions, you don't deserve to be a member of the Faithful.  I stand by my original "work on your suggestions" suggestion.  :-)[/quote]


::snore::

[Beeeej]

[quote redice][quote Beeeej][quote redice][quote Beeeej][quote redice]That said, I will simply say that if you're not happy with the play of the men's hockey team, go watch the basketball team.   They're winning more than the hockey team.   That should make you happy.....[/quote]

I find the implication that being unhappy with losing three games in a row means I'm not a real Cornell hockey fan extraordinarily offensive.  There's a huge gap between the spoiled younger fans who think we're supposed to get to the NCAA quarterfinals every year with ease, and the long-term fans who wish we were capable of holding our position in the standings against teams we should be able to beat.

Do I have any suggestions for the coach?  No, I think there's a reason he has the job and I don't.  So perhaps that's what was behind your suggestion.  But if that's the case, you need to work on your suggestions a lot more carefully.[/quote]




OMG Beeeej!!   My comments were directed to some of the people posting above me in this thread.   It was not directed at EVERY CU Hockey fan in the universe.   I think we're being a little touchy here..    And, when I feel a need  for advice on my "suggestions", I'll PM you...;-)  Tnx.    BTW, I'm never happy when the hockey team loses!!   I hope that's okay with the hockey gods.....[/quote]

You're never happy when the hockey team loses?  Well, why don't you go watch the damn hoops team, then?!  ::smashfreak::

Sorry, but even now in context with your explanation, the implication seems clear, at least to me - you can be unhappy about the hockey team doing poorly, but if you complain about it or have the temerity to offer solutions, you don't deserve to be a member of the Faithful.  I stand by my original "work on your suggestions" suggestion.  :-)[/quote]


::snore::[/quote]

[Tom Lento]

[quote Beeeej]What do you want me to do, LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong![/quote]

Thanks Beeeej, I spent 10 minutes laughing at that one and I kind of wanted to go to bed.

On the plus side, I'm 10 minutes closer to being back in shape.

[redice]

[quote Beeeej][quote redice][quote Beeeej][quote redice][quote Beeeej][quote redice]That said, I will simply say that if you're not happy with the play of the men's hockey team, go watch the basketball team.   They're winning more than the hockey team.   That should make you happy.....[/quote]

I find the implication that being unhappy with losing three games in a row means I'm not a real Cornell hockey fan extraordinarily offensive.  There's a huge gap between the spoiled younger fans who think we're supposed to get to the NCAA quarterfinals every year with ease, and the long-term fans who wish we were capable of holding our position in the standings against teams we should be able to beat.

Do I have any suggestions for the coach?  No, I think there's a reason he has the job and I don't.  So perhaps that's what was behind your suggestion.  But if that's the case, you need to work on your suggestions a lot more carefully.[/quote]




OMG Beeeej!!   My comments were directed to some of the people posting above me in this thread.   It was not directed at EVERY CU Hockey fan in the universe.   I think we're being a little touchy here..    And, when I feel a need  for advice on my "suggestions", I'll PM you...;-)  Tnx.    BTW, I'm never happy when the hockey team loses!!   I hope that's okay with the hockey gods.....[/quote]

You're never happy when the hockey team loses?  Well, why don't you go watch the damn hoops team, then?!  ::smashfreak::

Sorry, but even now in context with your explanation, the implication seems clear, at least to me - you can be unhappy about the hockey team doing poorly, but if you complain about it or have the temerity to offer solutions, you don't deserve to be a member of the Faithful.  I stand by my original "work on your suggestions" suggestion.  :-)[/quote]


::snore::[/quote]

[/quote]

OMG, he finally admits it!!!!!!!!!   ;-)

[Give My Regards]

Man, talk about thread drift.  Knock it off, or you'll lose my support!

::deadhorse::