St. Lawrence post-game

[lynah80]

We should also remember that B Nash and M Kennedy were not available for the game against SLU.

[cth95]

I don't know if it will affect Davenport's confidence if the reason was just to buy time, but it certainly confused him for a couple of minutes.  

Schafer signaled to Davenport to come to the bench as the team started to huddle around.  It took him a couple tries to get Troy's attention, not surprisingly since goalies aren't usually involved in these discussions.  Davenport skated halfway, and then went back to the net when noone was looking at him.  Schafer then looked up and yelled "Troy!  Get over here!"  Davenport finally figured out what was going on and went to the bench.

[lynah80]

From the Cornell Daily Sun, February 11, 2008:
==============================================
Both the Red and the Saints, however, were shaken up at the 1:21 mark, when St. Lawrence's first scorer of the night fell to the ice by the left boards in Cornell's defensive zone. Ross lay flat on his back, not moving for several minutes as trainers and coaches assessed the damage.

The arm of Cornell freshman Joe Devin had hit the back of Ross's head, resulting in a roughing (contact to the head) penalty and game disqualification for the young defenseman. Junior forward Tyler Mugford was on the ice at the time.

"Yeah, I was on the ice [when it happened]," Mugford said, "but I missed it. It's not normally [what Devin does]. It's out of character, not what Joe does. It's terrible, and nobody likes to see it happen. Hopefully the kid's alright and nothing serious happens to him."

Ross was carried off on stretcher to a standing ovation. It was later reported that the defenseman had feeling in all extremities and that medical tests showed his condition to be stable.

Both coaches were surprised at its severity and recognized that it unsettled all the players. Like Mugford, neither coach saw the hit at the time.

"I think [the penalty] was out of the blue," Schafer said. "Our team is one of the two or three least penalized teams, and I know Joe Marsh's teams are always very, very disciplined. We've never had an incident like that. I haven't seen the play. They said it was a high hit on the kid. Our guys were very, very concerned for the kid, and it was tough after he went down, it was tough for a lot of kids, and coaches and staff to focus, obviously being very concerned for the kid's health. Anytime you see that happen, it's a hockey player's worst nightmare."

"I didn't see the hit," Marsh said, "but I told our guys, 'Hey, don't make this worse.' We're not going to go out there and suddenly have vindication or retribution."

[text omitted]

Devin's particular situation forced some grown up actions, as well. After the game, Schafer apologized to Marsh and assured him that the Cornell program would follow up on the matter. Though Devin is leading the Red defenseman in scoring with three goals in thirteen games, the freshman has encountered a dreaded hockey event early in his career.

"We'll deal with discipline from our standpoint," Schafer said. "I know that Joe feels bad. It's out of character for him. He hasn't taken a hit from behind, [and] he hasn't been undisciplined this year. So I feel for Joe too, from that standpoint. He's a good kid and just got his arm up [at the wrong time]. ... The biggest thing is that we're grateful the kid's okay."
=========================================================================

Sorry to make you look bad Mike Schafer, but here are the penalty statistics.

ECAC Penalty minutes per game (conference only)

1   Brown        15.2
2   Rensselaer    15.2
3   Cornell    14.8
4   Colgate    14.0
5   Quinnipiac    13.8
6   Union       12.6
6    Yale       12.6
8   St. Lawrence    12.5
9   Clarkson    11.6
10   Princeton    11.3
11   Harvard    10.6
12   Dartmouth    9.4

[oceanst41]

Those are actually the lowest penalty minutes for Cornell since 2004-2005 (let's just say that was a disciplined team all over the ice). The last two season were averaging between 1 and 2 more minors a game.

[Doug '08]

I wouldn't exactly call it a standing ovation.  The St. Lawrence fans were shouting for Cornell to go home while one squirrelly student banged on the notorious obnoxious drum.

[cth95]

I thought Clarkson was bad enough occasionally drumming during play.  The two guys with drums at SLU(t) beat on them as much as most fans clap during a game.  The only time they quieted down a little was during the 3rd period when Cornell was all over the SLU(t) end, probably worrying them enough to make them actually pay attention to the game.

Didn't someone on here say that artificial noisemakers are against NCAA rules during play?  If so, I would think nearly constant drumming for the better part of two periods should be something either the referrees could address or Schafer could contest.

[daredevilcu]

This has been covered dozens of times on this board.  It's against the rules during play at the referee's discretion.  If it's interfering with anything on the ice the referee reserves the right to ask any band/person to stop at any time.  In my time around ECAC hockey, I've only seen it done once, and I believe it was Feola.

Aside from that, arenas have their own rules regarding said noisemakers.  Hell, I've seen multiple arenas hand out thundersticks and those certainly qualify.  That's been done at SLU, Clarkson, Harvard, and Dartmouth for sure, probably more.  It's up to the arena directors to enforce it to a point where they deem it necessary.

As someone mentioned on this board, some fans get out of hand at different arenas.  Rather than kick out an entire student section, different places come up with different ways to deal with offensive chants: at Clarkson, it happens to be to ask the band to use the drums to cover it up, so thats the main purpose.  As one would expect, if you're allowed to do it during play at all, you'll be allowed to do it pretty much whenever you want as long as it isn't disrupting the game.

Personally, I think it's a stupid rule and it doesn't make much difference in the game one way or the other, and I really think it would help keep a larger student section together -- I'm sure you've all heard A-C chanting LGR at one tempo while D-F is completely off.  I've heard it, and I only make it to one Cornell game a year.

I'd think it begins to matter when louder instruments such as trumpets and those god-awful plastic horns get used during play.  Those are loud and distracting, and I can see how they might cause problems.  Then again, Cornell coaches use an artificial noisemaker when penalties are ending, so it must not be that important of a rule.

[Dpperk29]

[quote daredevilcu]Then again, Cornell coaches use an artificial noisemaker when penalties are ending, so it must not be that important of a rule.[/quote]

I am pretty sure fingers don't count as artificial noisemakers... but I may be wrong.

[daredevilcu]

We were paying close attention on Friday night -- it sure looked to me like he was using some sort of bird call, not fingers.  However, my original point still stands, and I don't really think the rule makes a whole lot of sense.  I don't care if they use bird calls, I just don't think it makes a big difference in the game.

[Jim Hyla]

[quote daredevilcu]This has been covered dozens of times on this board.  It's against the rules during play at the referee's discretion.  If it's interfering with anything on the ice the referee reserves the right to ask any band/person to stop at any time.  In my time around ECAC hockey, I've only seen it done once, and I believe it was Feola.

Aside from that, arenas have their own rules regarding said noisemakers.  Hell, I've seen multiple arenas hand out thundersticks and those certainly qualify.  That's been done at SLU, Clarkson, Harvard, and Dartmouth for sure, probably more.  It's up to the arena directors to enforce it to a point where they deem it necessary.

As someone mentioned on this board, some fans get out of hand at different arenas.  Rather than kick out an entire student section, different places come up with different ways to deal with offensive chants: at Clarkson, it happens to be to ask the band to use the drums to cover it up, so thats the main purpose.  As one would expect, if you're allowed to do it during play at all, you'll be allowed to do it pretty much whenever you want as long as it isn't disrupting the game.

Personally, I think it's a stupid rule and it doesn't make much difference in the game one way or the other, and I really think it would help keep a larger student section together -- I'm sure you've all heard A-C chanting LGR at one tempo while D-F is completely off.  I've heard it, and I only make it to one Cornell game a year.

I'd think it begins to matter when louder instruments such as trumpets and those god-awful plastic horns get used during play.  Those are loud and distracting, and I can see how they might cause problems.  Then again, Cornell coaches use an artificial noisemaker when penalties are ending, so it must not be that important of a rule.[/quote]

Wow, where do I start? CU coaches with artificial noisemakers for penalties? Have you ever heard of someone who has a good whistle? Well that's our "artificial". No, it's all natural.

All penalties are at the refs discretion, that's why we argue them so much. However the rules are clear; no artificial noisemakers and no band playing during the play of the game. Whether they enforce it is a different issue. However, there is no doubt that Clarkson and SLU are the most flagrant violators. Clarkson's drummers constantly start playing during the game, and the stupid drummer from SLU (a student I was told) is even worse yet. Neither of them come close to the letter of the rules. Unfortunately I'm coming to the opinion that the only way this can be stopped is for a visiting school band to just play whenever they want to and then when they get called on it, point out what the home school is doing.

At the SLU game they handed out noise makers, a clear violation. Remember, this is happening to a fan group who had their cowbell taken awy from them at a game in Minny. We couldn't play a cowbell twice, but you can play your drums whenever you want to? Come-on, please.

[daredevilcu]

Jim, hate to say this, but you lost all your credibility when you started throwing things at Clarkson band members.  Sorry.

EDIT:  I should also note that you should certainly know better, and I really expected more class from you.  Then again, I don't know why, as you're constantly self-righteous and accusatory even when I'm producing very logical arguments as to why it isn't a terrible thing.  I also note that you don't say whether or not you AGREE with the rule.  It's very clear that I don't.  Instead, you decide to take a high-and-mighty condescending tone, and quite frankly, it's just annoying.  I'm trying to have a decent discussion, generate some conversation about a rule and whether or not it's a good rule, NOT whether or not some schools break it.  We know they do.  Clearly it isn't a big deal, or they wouldn't be allowed to.

2nd Edit:  If I am mistaken, and you are not the guy with the #14 jersey who tosses miniature candies out to the Cornell crowd at away games, my apologies as far as the throwing things comment.  Whoever that was though, very classless.

[Jim Hyla]

[quote daredevilcu]Jim, hate to say this, but you lost all your credibility when you started throwing things at Clarkson band members.  Sorry.

EDIT:  I should also note that you should certainly know better, and I really expected more class from you.  Then again, I don't know why, as you're constantly self-righteous and accusatory even when I'm producing very logical arguments as to why it isn't a terrible thing.  I also note that you don't say whether or not you AGREE with the rule.  It's very clear that I don't.  Instead, you decide to take a high-and-mighty condescending tone, and quite frankly, it's just annoying.  I'm trying to have a decent discussion, generate some conversation about a rule and whether or not it's a good rule, NOT whether or not some schools break it.  We know they do.  Clearly it isn't a big deal, or they wouldn't be allowed to.[/quote]

Well, when I used to throw candy to the Cornell band, I used to try and get it into the tuba and some tried to catch them. That was what I was doing to the Clarkson tuba, I left the trumpet or trombone, whichever it was, alone and it was closer to me.  Once they asked me to stop I did, and gave the rink attendant a Snickers to boot. I wasn't trying to be mean, now at SLU that's different.

In regards to the meat of the post, you had some factual errors and I corrected them. The rules are clear, I'm not arguing whether it's a terrible thing or not, just that if they are going to enforce a rule against us then they should enforce it against everyone. And yes, I'm happy about the rule, without it we could have dueling bands and noisemakers. The object for some fans would be to try and be the loudest most obnoxious sound maker. Yes, I know you could leave it up to the ref to decide when it gets out of hand, but is that what you want the game and officials to turn into?

Remember, when we were playing our noise maker it was during a stoppage of play, and they still took our cowbell away. They didn't just tell us to stop but took it away. It got ludicrous, search back to my description of the Minny game if you don't remember. So, I'm coming at this with a attitude, if you'd like to say that.

Sorry if you're annoyed but there were factual errors.

I guess we just disagree completely about this. But yes I've learned, no more throwing, even jovially at opponents.

[marty]

[quote daredevilcu]This has been covered dozens of times on this board.  It's against the rules during play at the referee's discretion.  If it's interfering with anything on the ice the referee reserves the right to ask any band/person to stop at any time.  In my time around ECAC hockey, I've only seen it done once, and I believe it was Feola.

[/quote]

This seems to be a foolish interpretation of a simple rule.  But since I think that the rule is that noisemakers aren't allowed, I challenge you to find evidence that says noisemakers are not allowed at the ref's discretion.

I can't believe that anyone would write such a rule.

So go to it.  Prove me wrong.

[amerks127]

If I am mistaken, and you are not the guy with the #14 jersey who tosses miniature candies out to the Cornell crowd at away games, my apologies as far as the throwing things comment. Whoever that was though, very classless.

I just want to be clear here (and bear in mind I'm jumping in to this conversation and that quote might be out of context) but...I wear Nash's #14 red, and the only time you'll find me throwing candy is when I throw it back at Jim for giving me a wrapper, which mind you, he has purposely done twice.  That, and without a ride I couldn't make it north this year.

[lynah80]

[quote marty][quote daredevilcu]This has been covered dozens of times on this board.  It's against the rules during play at the referee's discretion.  If it's interfering with anything on the ice the referee reserves the right to ask any band/person to stop at any time.  In my time around ECAC hockey, I've only seen it done once, and I believe it was Feola.

[/quote]

This seems to be a foolish interpretation of a simple rule.  But since I think that the rule is that noisemakers aren't allowed, I challenge you to find evidence that says noisemakers are not allowed at the ref's discretion.

I can't believe that anyone would write such a rule.

So go to it.  Prove me wrong.[/quote]
=======================================================
This is from the NCAA Ice Hockey Rule book

Interference by Spectators
SECTION 30.
a. In the event that objects that interfere with the progress of the game are thrown onto the ice, the official shall blow the whistle and stop the play; and the puck shall be faced off at the spot where play is
stopped.
Fans are not permitted to throw objects on the ice. At the discretion of the referee, a warning may be issued before the game.
b. Spectators are not permitted to use artificial noisemakers, air horns or electronic amplifiers while the game is in progress.
c. The band(s) shall not be allowed to play while the game is in progress.

PENALTIES—a. through c.—Warning or bench minor against offending fans' team for delay of game.

It is the referee's discretion, depending on the severity of the action, whether or not a warning is necessary.
==========================================================

Seems reasonable to me.