Riley Nash

[DILLIGAF]

You mean like Josh Unice or Pat Maroon this year or Trevor Lewis last year and Peter Mueller a couple of years ago to name a few...you could even add Matt Duchene to that list after he rescinded his committment to Michigan State and went to Brampton in the OHL this summer.

The change in his draft status from a mid 3rd round projection to a first round pick changes a lot of things.  If he has a "family advisor" who is telling him to go to Cornell, he should seek other advise because the advice he is getting is bad advice.  Maybe he should call Tony Ramono...That might not be the recommendation that would reflect well on Mike S.

[KeithK]

Are you saying that this happens one or two times per year (i.e. the names you cited) or is it much more common than that (say half a dozen to a dozen  players around the NCAA every year)?

Also, since I don't follow pre-college hockey at all, were the guys you mentioned early round picks?

Not to trying to argue with you. I'm just trying to get an answer to Rich's question that's more detailed than a couple of names.

[DILLIGAF]

These players were top prospects and the ones that came to mind.  I don't believe that it is as high a number as a dozen a year.  But it is a real consideration for the very top prospects.  The CHL doesn't have the same limitations on recruiting visits, contacts, etc.  They can be very aggressive in trying to get the top players.  It does happen every year.  I would think you would find it to be on average of 5-8 players a year.  Not a huge number for college hockey as a whole, but it becomes much more statisticly significant when you factor in the number of teams that actually have 1st round freshmen draft picks to which this pertain.  That subset is much smaller.

[ftyuv]

I love this good-cop-bad-cop thing D'gaf pulls.  Or rather, intelligent-post-retarded-trolling.  Keeps me on my toes!

[sah67]

[quote DILLIGAF] Maybe he should call Tony Ramono...[/quote]

I didn't think we would ever need to add Romano to the spelling guide....especially on a post that's already been edited.

[Trotsky]

[quote ftyuv]I love this good-cop-bad-cop thing D'gaf pulls.  Or rather, intelligent-post-retarded-trolling.  Keeps me on my toes![/quote]

Classic trolling technique.  Throwing in an intelligent post every once in a while convinces some people you mean well -- you might even get a few poor suckers to defend you.  That gives you cover for the next asinine flame.

It isn't limited to board posters.  Political pundits do it all the time.  There's probably a word for it.

[evilnaturedrobot]

[quote DILLIGAF]
If he has a "family advisor" who is telling him to go to Cornell, he should seek other advise because the advice he is getting is bad advice.  Maybe he should call Tony Ramono...That might not be the recommendation that would reflect well on Mike S.[/quote]

The same Tony Romano who decided that the best way to get to the NHL was to ignore his defensive problems and go play for the highest scoring team in the CHL? Sounds like a guy who knows how to further his career.

What you continue to ignore is that Riley's game, or atleast his reported game, fits this team.  If I was a hard nosed two way forward I'd want to come to Cornell, there are few programs who promote that type of game as well as Schafer has.  But wait, you have an axe to grind with mike, so clearly none of what I said made sense.

[DILLIGAF]

You mean few programs like:
Minnesota
North Dakota
Wisconsin
Michigan
Notre Dame
Maine
BU
BC
Denver
Michigan State

First round draft picks no matter what their game do not go to the ECAC and especially Cornell to become NHL players.  I know, I know, Joe N did it back in 85.  Yes he did, even though he was the 27th pick overall he went to Cornell and it worked out fine for him.  

It has not been a model that has really caught on since he did it though.

[evilnaturedrobot]

why does it matter where he was picked?  Did Riley some how become a differant hockey player the day after the draft?  He's going to develop differantly because he was picked high?

The only reason his draft position would affect his decision to go to Cornell was if the oilers intervened, and so far they have shown no inclination to do so.  Other than that, the fact that he was picked high shouldn't make any differance.

[Jacob '06]

[quote DILLIGAF]You mean few programs like:
Minnesota
[/quote]

I think you lost all credibility claiming that Minnesota is a good fit for a hard nosed two way forward.

[RichH]

[quote DILLIGAF]First round draft picks no matter what their game do not go to the ECAC and especially Cornell to become NHL players.[/quote]

Chris Higgins for a good example.  Hugh Jessiman for a poor example.  And there have been a good number of 2nd round picks in the ECAC.

Drafted players generally don't go to the ECAC to become NHL players.  They go there for the other things that ECAC schools have to offer over your state-sports factories or junior leagues.  Just because a player doesn't happen to be drafted high, doesn't mean that the hockey programs in the ECAC can't develop him into NHL talent.  Do I even have to post this list?

http://www.ecachockey.com/men/history/NHL.pdf?dec=

But you laid down a crafty sentence.  You're right.  Not a whole lot of kids with first-round talent do go to ECAC schools.  Nobody can argue that.  Heck, if you limit it to 1st rounders, only 8-10 kids out of 30 are headed to college at all.  And what do the schools that can land such talent have that (in general) ECAC schools do not?  1) scholarships 2) a state name (or Boston).  The scholarships that Colgate, Clarkson, SLU, RPI, QU have don't have as much draw power that the scholarships from Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota, North Dakota, etc. have.

Let's look at the recent 1st rounds:

2007: 11 of 30
HEA: 3  (BC, BU, UNH)
ECAC: 1 (Cornell)
CCHA: 2 (Mich, NDame)
WCHA: 5 (Wisc. 3, Minn 2)

2006: 8 of 30
HEA: 0
ECAC: 0
CCHA: 3 (Mich 3)
WCHA: 5 (Minn 4, NoDak 1)

2005: 8 of 30
HEA: 0
ECAC: 1 (Cornell)
CCHA: 2 (Mich 2)
WCHA: 5 (NoDak 3, Wisc, UMD)

2004: 7 of 30
HEA: 1 (BC)
ECAC: 0
CCHA: 2 (Mich, MSU)
WCHA: 4 (Minn. 2, NoDak 2)

2003: 9 of 30
HEA: 2 (BC 2)
ECAC: 1 (Dart)
CCHA: 2 (Mich, OSU)
WCHA: 4 (Minn, NoDak, Wisc, CC)

2002: 6 of 30
HEA: 2 (BU, NE)
ECAC: 1 (Yale)
CCHA: 2 (Mich, MSU)
WCHA: 1 (Minn)

2001: 4 of 30
HEA: 1 (BC)
ECAC: 0
CCHA: 3 (Mich, OSU 2)
WCHA: 0

--------------
Totals: 53 of 210 (25.2%)
HEA: 9 (17%)
ECAC: 4 (7.5%)
CCHA: 16 (30%)
WCHA: 24 (45.5%)

By School:
Minn: 10
Mich: 10
NoDaK: 7
Wisc: 5
BC: 5
OSU: 3
BU: 2
Cornell: 2
MSU: 2
NE: 1
UNH: 1
Dart: 1
Yale: 1
NDame: 1
CC: 1
UMD: 1

Only 1/4 of all 1st rounders go to college.  Of the small number that do, the hockey scholarship powerhouses get the bulk of them.  And I'm not even going to try to do the research to find out how many of those bolt for the pros after 1-2 years.

It's obvious that certain schools simply have a recruiting advantage over others, and that's not an earth-shattering discovery.  To say that first-round talent doesn't go to the ECAC, "especially Cornell" makes the speaker look retarded.  

That's probably why you're getting a lot of flak.

[bothman]

His draft position matters.  Edmonton used a 1st round pick on him - now for what it is worth, most people I have talked to say that Edmonton will be disappointed with this pick....that Nash should have gone in the 2nd or 3rd round - we won't know this for several years.

But regardless, he went in the first round.  The issue with going to Cornell is the number of games, the weak schedule, etc.  The Edmonton organization (based in Canada, so not exactly a bastion of college hockey) does not want to look bad if their First Round pick does not develop as they think he should, especially if he doesn't develop by going a non-traditional route - playing at Cornell.

Look at JD Drew and the Red Sox.  Theo continues to play Drew despite his horrendous play.  Why?  Because he wasted $70MM on him and would be ridiculed to no end were he to pay a guy $14MM a year to sit on the bench.

[rstott]

If Nash is considering not coming, he'll have to make up his mind damn soon.  Freshman orientation begins a week from today.

[nyc94]

[quote rstott]If Nash is considering not coming, he'll have to make up his mind damn soon.  Freshman orientation begins a week from today.[/quote]

More importantly, when are tuition checks due?

[Josh '99]

[quote bothman]His draft position matters.  Edmonton used a 1st round pick on him - now for what it is worth, most people I have talked to say that Edmonton will be disappointed with this pick....that Nash should have gone in the 2nd or 3rd round - we won't know this for several years.

But regardless, he went in the first round.  The issue with going to Cornell is the number of games, the weak schedule, etc.  The Edmonton organization (based in Canada, so not exactly a bastion of college hockey) does not want to look bad if their First Round pick does not develop as they think he should, especially if he doesn't develop by going a non-traditional route - playing at Cornell.[/quote]As someone-or-other pointed out in this excellently-researched post, the Oilers don't generally pull their drafted players out of college too early.  That holds true for both players at big-name schools like Michigan and UND, and at niche hockey schools like NMU and Denver.  Lowe is smart enough to look past the lack of the name recognition of a school like Michigan and evaluate Cornell on its actual merits.