OT (but not really): "Where Have All the Scorers Gone?"

[Al DeFlorio]

From Sunday's Boston Globe:

http://www.boston.com/sports/articles/2007/02/11/big_question_on_campus_where_have_all_the_scorers_gone/

[billhoward]

After two screensful rambling down memory lane, the story says, "'No position in any sport has made the jump of how it's played better than goaltending," said [BU coach] Parker .... '"There have always been good goaltenders," said [Jerry] York. "[Ken] Dryden, [Chris] Terreri, [Paul] Skidmore, but as a rule the goalies today are better athletes. I don't know if years ago many of the goalies could have skated [on defense or offense], but today's goalie could.'" It also talks about better coaching of goalies, pad sizes and whether the nets should be larger.

Other possibilities:

-- Coaches such as Mike Schafer have shown you can take good defensive players and coach them to play as a great defensive unit.

-- More top to bottom parity in the league. The nearly goal-a-game scorers of the 1970s and 1980s perhaps padded their numbers with hat tricks against the bottom feeders. Perhaps there ought to be a derived stat Goal-Scoring Games to discount the effect of runaways.

-- Do more teams skate four lines more equally? Maybe the top line used to be out 40% of the game and now it's 30%

[dbilmes]

No matter what the reasons, the games used to be more enjoyable back in the old days! Even though we lost, no one who was at the Boston Garden for our 10-9 overtime loss to UNH in the ECAC semifinals in 1977 will ever forget that game. It's hard to imagine a 10-9 game these days in the ECAC playoffs!

[jkahn]

[quote dbilmes]No matter what the reasons, the games used to be more enjoyable back in the old days! Even though we lost, no one who was at the Boston Garden for our 10-9 overtime loss to UNH in the ECAC semifinals in 1977 will ever forget that game. It's hard to imagine a 10-9 game these days in the ECAC playoffs![/quote]I did not find that game to be enjoyable.  Much more enjoyable was the 1-0 win vs. North Dakota in the '67 NCAA semis.  18 goals less, but a lot more joy.

[Al DeFlorio]

And you never heard an announcer say anything like:  "So-and-so is 54-2-4 over the past five years when they scored the first goal."  The first goal was like the opening bid in a poker game, rather than the turning point--or, worse, decisive moment--in a game.

I don't really need 10-9 games, but it would be nice if a team really could come back from being a few goals down and not have it viewed as some kind of miracle.  (Although it does happen often enough to Harvard in the first round of the NCAAs.::thud:: )

[billhoward]

[quote dbilmes]No matter what the reasons, the games used to be more enjoyable back in the old days! Even though we lost, no one who was at the Boston Garden for our 10-9 overtime loss to UNH in the ECAC semifinals in 1977 will ever forget that game. It's hard to imagine a 10-9 game these days in the ECAC playoffs![/quote]

In Canada's other national sport, no less imaginable but harder to forget than any of us would like: UMass 10, Cornell 9, last year.

[billhoward]

[quote Al DeFlorio]And you never heard an announcer say anything like:  "So-and-so is 54-2-4 over the past five years when they scored the first goal."  The first goal was like the opening bid in a poker game, rather than the turning point--or, worse, decisive moment--in a game.[/quote]

We are in an era of dumb or misleading statistics and, Al, you cited one. Another sort-of-stat that gets me is recounting the time-of-game in tenths of a second during the last minute rather than to the nearest second. Except in the last one or two seconds. Before then, you haven't reached the JND (just noticeable difference) that 1/10 second provides. 10.0 vs. 9.9 seconds is a 0.01 difference and 59.9 vs. 60.0 is a 0.002 difference. I understand why a scoreboard flips over in the last 60 seconds to counting tenths, because a player glancing up has the last minute of play to acclimate, not just the last 10 seconds.

It would be good to have a formula that lets you discount the effect of having a 1-0 lead so that all that's left is the tendency-to-win intangibles that accrue from having that first lead. A better stat might be comparing Cornell's ability to improve on a 1-goal lead vs. failure to maintain, or just maintain (ie, trade goals the rest of the way). Failure-to-maintain could be called the choke factor.

[Robb]

[quote billhoward]Failure-to-maintain could be called the choke factor.[/quote]
Couldn't we call it the Clarkson Factor, just to be more clear?  ::crazy::

[Jim Hyla]

[quote Robb][quote billhoward]Failure-to-maintain could be called the choke factor.[/quote]
Couldn't we call it the Clarkson Factor, just to be more clear?  ::crazy::[/quote]

Isn't that why we want Clk to finish as RS champs? Sorry Rich and the rest of you Clk fans, I just couldn't help myself.::drunk::Let's go have a beer.

[Drew]

No offense taken, Jim.  I was never one for moral victories.  Winning the RS, winning the ECAC, making it to the NCAA, winning round one, winning round two, making it to the final four, these are all moral victories. The bottom line is how many NC's do you have? and I have none.

All but one,"choke". It is just a matter of when.

[reilly83]

the games used to be more enjoyable back in the old days! Even though we lost, no one who was at the Boston Garden for our 10-9 overtime loss to UNH in the ECAC semifinals in 1977 will ever forget that game.

While I can see why that game was exciting, I love a good defense.  For some reason, I would rather have the 0-1 loss to Wisconsin, than a 10-9 loss.  5-7 total goals per game is enough for me.  When there are 19 goals in a game, each goal somehow seems less meaningful.  Maybe its because it seems like a team doesn't have to work quite as hard for each one.

[cth95]

[quote reilly83]
While I can see why that game was exciting, I love a good defense.  For some reason, I would rather have the 0-1 loss to Wisconsin, than a 10-9 loss.  5-7 total goals per game is enough for me.  When there are 19 goals in a game, each goal somehow seems less meaningful.[/quote]

Granted I may be biased since I am a goalie, but going back to my very successful high school soccer teams all the way through the Patriots' and Cornell Hockey's recent success, solid defense always seems to lead to winning seasons.  Good offenses are fun to watch, but if your team wins or loses a 10-9 hockey game, many of those goals probably came from mistakes, defensive breakdowns, and shaky goaltending.  

I think scoring opportunities are what make for exciting hockey.   Last year's triple OT game in which both goaltenders played just crazy out-of-their minds while both defenses were rock solid is about as good as it gets IMO.  Despite the score, there were plenty of good plays and scoring chances.  It wasn't just 59 minutes of back-and-forth in the neutral zone with one minute of offense leading to the lone goal.

[Beeeej]

[quote cth95]I think scoring opportunities are what make for exciting hockey.   Last year's triple OT game in which both goaltenders played just crazy out-of-their minds while both defenses were rock solid is about as good as it gets IMO.  Despite the score, there were plenty of good plays and scoring chances.  It wasn't just 110 minutes of back-and-forth in the neutral zone with one minute of offense leading to the lone goal.[/quote]

Fixed your post.

[cth95]

[quote Beeeej][quote cth95] It wasn't just 110 minutes of back-and-forth in the neutral zone with one minute of offense leading to the lone goal.[/quote]

Fixed your post.[/quote]

You're right about that game.  :-)  That's why it was such an amazing game.

I wrote 59 of 60 minutes thinking more generally.

[jtwcornell91]

[quote Drew]No offense taken, Jim.  I was never one for moral victories.  Winning the RS, winning the ECAC, making it to the NCAA, winning round one, winning round two, making it to the final four, these are all moral victories.[/quote]

I beg to differ.  Winning the ECACs is an actual victory.  The ECAC Championship may not be the National Championship, but it's still a championship.