Retired Number

[Al DeFlorio]

[quote Trotsky][quote ugarte][quote rstott]Latreille and his Middlebury team beat Cornell 15-1 in 1959.[/quote]The reffing in that game was awful.[/quote]

Cornell's disallowed goal in the first period would have turned the tide.[/quote]
As would have the missed penalty shot.

[French Rage]

[quote Al DeFlorio][quote Trotsky][quote ugarte][quote rstott]Latreille and his Middlebury team beat Cornell 15-1 in 1959.[/quote]The reffing in that game was awful.[/quote]

Cornell's disallowed goal in the first period would have turned the tide.[/quote]
As would have the missed penalty shot.[/quote]

And they refused the change a PP squad that clearly wasnt working.

[KenP]

[quote French Rage][quote Al DeFlorio][quote Trotsky][quote ugarte][quote rstott]Latreille and his Middlebury team beat Cornell 15-1 in 1959.[/quote]The reffing in that game was awful.[/quote]

Cornell's disallowed goal in the first period would have turned the tide.[/quote]
As would have the missed penalty shot.[/quote]

And they refused the change a PP squad that clearly wasnt working.[/quote]Yes but despite all this there were some who felt this performance was the turning point, and Cornell was poised to run the table from that point on.

[Al DeFlorio]

[quote KenP][quote French Rage][quote Al DeFlorio][quote Trotsky][quote ugarte][quote rstott]Latreille and his Middlebury team beat Cornell 15-1 in 1959.[/quote]The reffing in that game was awful.[/quote]

Cornell's disallowed goal in the first period would have turned the tide.[/quote]
As would have the missed penalty shot.[/quote]

And they refused the change a PP squad that clearly wasnt working.[/quote]Yes but despite all this there were some who felt this performance was the turning point, and Cornell was poised to run the table from that point on.[/quote]
But only if they stuck to the goalie rotation.

[flyersgolf]

No numbers should be retired.  Based on Cornell hockey careers Joey was great but not close to the greatest.  Dryden, Nethery, D. Ferguson, Treadway,and Lodboa the greatest college defensemen of all time as claimed by many.   Joeys career really took off after Cornell.  If you start retiring numbers the rafters are going to get crowded and should.  I was there for the teams of the 60's, 70's and 80's there are over a dozen deserving players.  Joey is in the top ten greatest players at Cornell no question.  Joey was the best player Cornell had seen in a while when he came through.  I love Joey, but if his number is retired there are at least 12 others that are as deserving, soley considering the performance they gave Cornell. I would be much more inclined to have a banner with the number on it calling them Lynah Legends.

[jtwcornell91]

[quote flyersgolf]No numbers should be retired.  Based on Cornell hockey careers Joey was great but not close to the greatest.  Dryden, Nethery, D. Ferguson, Treadway,and Lodboa the greatest college defensemen of all time as claimed by many.   Joeys career really took off after Cornell.  If you start retiring numbers the rafters are going to get crowded and should.  I was there for the teams of the 60's, 70's and 80's there are over a dozen deserving players.  Joey is in the top ten greatest players at Cornell no question.  Joey was the best player Cornell had seen in a while when he came through.  I love Joey, but if his number is retired there are at least 12 others that are as deserving, soley considering the performance they gave Cornell. I would be much more inclined to have a banner with the number on it calling them Lynah Legends.[/quote]

If you feel strongly about it, there's a petition at http://cutradition.com/ you can sign...

[KeithK]

I think it's pretty clear why Nieuwendyk is getting a retired number when other guys have not.  Joe finished his Hall of Fame caliber hockey career at a time when retiring numbers is very much in vogue.  Dryden retired at a time when it much less common and probably was unheard of in college athletics.

[Jim Hyla]

We have an Athletic Hall of Fame. If they want a Hockey Hall of Fame, so be it, but don't retire numbers. Do we think Coach Harkness belongs in a Hockey Hall of Fame. No number did he.

[ugarte]

[quote KeithK]I think it's pretty clear why Nieuwendyk is getting a retired number when other guys have not.  Joe finished his Hall of Fame caliber hockey career at a time when retiring numbers is very much in vogue.  Dryden retired at a time when it much less common and probably was unheard of in college athletics.[/quote]More pointedly, Nieuwendyk finished his NHL career now, when the current students are, um, current students and more likely to be familiar with him and his career.


eLynah may be full of hockey historians but the general population - even at Cornell -  isn't. As important as Dryden and the other great players mentioned are to the history of the Cornell hockey program, they simply won't generate the same level of campus interest. Perhaps it is the responsibility of the AD's office to be the grown-ups, and to start with the real lions of Big Red history (Ken Dryden, Ed Marinaro, etc.) before the more recent superstars but I can't say that I blame them for starting with a sure-fire NHL Hall of Famer who is only as low as he is on the Cornell career rankings because (1) he was such an obvious talent that the NHL had to steal him away before his senior year and (2) he lived in an era when it was possible for a player to leave before graduating.

That said, I signed the petition.

[Jim Hyla]

[quote ugarte] Perhaps it is the responsibility of the AD's office to be the grown-ups, and to start with the real lions of Big Red history (Ken Dryden, Ed Marinaro, etc.) before the more recent superstars [/quote]They did that in the Hall of Fame.

[Tom Lento]

[quote KeithK]I think it's pretty clear why Nieuwendyk is getting a retired number when other guys have not.  Joe finished his Hall of Fame caliber hockey career at a time when retiring numbers is very much in vogue.  Dryden retired at a time when it much less common and probably was unheard of in college athletics.[/quote]

Another possible reason:

Have Dryden et al volunteered their time to help the team develop on-ice skills? Wasn't Nieuwendyk effectively acting as an assistant coach during the strike, and working with the team on face-offs and things of that nature during the summers? Retiring his number might be a sign of gratitude for *everything* he's done for the program, on and off the ice, both while he was a student here and over the course of his NHL career.

I don't know if that's a valid reason to retire someone's number, and if that is the reason I think it'd be nice if they drove that point home a little more forcefully, but that might be part of the thinking there.

[Swampy]

[quote flyersgolf]No numbers should be retired.  Based on Cornell hockey careers Joey was great but not close to the greatest.  Dryden, Nethery, D. Ferguson, Treadway,and Lodboa the greatest college defensemen of all time as claimed by many.   Joeys career really took off after Cornell.  If you start retiring numbers the rafters are going to get crowded and should.  I was there for the teams of the 60's, 70's and 80's there are over a dozen deserving players.  Joey is in the top ten greatest players at Cornell no question.  Joey was the best player Cornell had seen in a while when he came through.  I love Joey, but if his number is retired there are at least 12 others that are as deserving, soley considering the performance they gave Cornell. I would be much more inclined to have a banner with the number on it calling them Lynah Legends.[/quote]

I don't think it's totally inappropriate to honor someone for going on to do great things after their time on the hill. Schools that award honorary doctorates (we don't do that either), routinely do so to people who aren't even graduates of the institution. If someone were a terrific physics major while at Cornell and then went on to win the Nobel Prize, wouldn't it be appropriate for the Physics Department to honor them?

By this logic, only Ken Dryden is in the same category as Joey. Of course, whether retiring their numbers is the appropriate way to honor them or not is another story.

[Jim Hyla]

[quote Swampy][quote flyersgolf]No numbers should be retired.  Based on Cornell hockey careers Joey was great but not close to the greatest.  Dryden, Nethery, D. Ferguson, Treadway,and Lodboa the greatest college defensemen of all time as claimed by many.   Joeys career really took off after Cornell.  If you start retiring numbers the rafters are going to get crowded and should.  I was there for the teams of the 60's, 70's and 80's there are over a dozen deserving players.  Joey is in the top ten greatest players at Cornell no question.  Joey was the best player Cornell had seen in a while when he came through.  I love Joey, but if his number is retired there are at least 12 others that are as deserving, soley considering the performance they gave Cornell. I would be much more inclined to have a banner with the number on it calling them Lynah Legends.[/quote]

I don't think it's totally inappropriate to honor someone for going on to do great things after their time on the hill. Schools that award honorary doctorates (we don't do that either), routinely do so to people who aren't even graduates of the institution. If someone were a terrific physics major while at Cornell and then went on to win the Nobel Prize, wouldn't it be appropriate for the Physics Department to honor them?

By this logic, only Ken Dryden is in the same category as Joey. Of course, whether retiring their numbers is the appropriate way to honor them or not is another story.[/quote]And of course that is exactly what all of us are discussing. We all agree that honoring him is correct; for me that belongs in the Hall of Fame. Retire the number, no.

So you see, you might agree with many of us, even though your post sounded like a disagree. I don't think anyone thinks it's inappropriate to honor people for what they do after grad.::rolleyes::

[RichH]

[quote Jim Hyla]And of course that is exactly what all of us are discussing. We all agree that honoring him is correct; for me that belongs in the Hall of Fame. Retire the number, no.[/quote]

I agree completely with Jim, and I actually feel quite strongly about this.  I haven't spoken up mainly because I couldn't have said how I feel any better than the text at http://www.cutradition.com has already done.  Also, I knew once I started writing, it would probably turn into something resembling a reactionary manifesto.  But then again, the support that the petition hasn't gotten has been a little disappointing to me.  Thus I begin:

Look...perhaps I'm kidding myself in the athlete/celebrity world in which we live, but I'm still married to the idea of keeping collegiate athletics as close as possible to the amateur ideal of the fading existence of the "student-athlete."  I'm as proud as anyone of the people who came through the university that I attended, and love to show that pride to the college football/basketball "fans" who buy hats and foam fingers of institutions of higher education that they never intend to attend.  Those who perpetuate the exploitation of our educational system by people who have decided to use schools as certain professional sports' "minor leagues" and whore themselves for the almighty buck.  *huff*  [/steps away from the soapbox]

My point:  I love all the great players who chose for one reason or another to attend Cornell and play hockey.  Even some of the not-so-great.  Retiring numbers is such a thing for professional sports.  I'm of the opinion that collegiate uniform numbers should not be retired, except in such circumstances that an event happened that so changed a program emotionally that nobody would want to wear the number again out of respect.  Such is the case with the two retired Lax jerseys.  Or Travis Roy at BU.  Or Syracuse's #44 in football.  Joe Nieuwendyk's #25, while worn by one of the best and most successful and classy athletes to come to Ithaca, shouldn't be holier-than-thou.  On top of all the players I love, I also love the program's tradition.  I like to think of how excited the team was to learn about the great players who wore their numbers before them.  I see the great uniform numbers as a torch to be passed (maybe that's too romantic, but I'm trying to explain why this is important to me).  

1-31.  

That's my TEAM.  No individual is above that, just like nobody's skating around with #91 because that's what he wore in Juniors.  Retiring numbers is so...Florida State University.  If we retire numbers, we may as well just switch to the Nike Swift jersey with crazy star striping, chevrons, and shimmer jersey material, and slap together a black 3rd jersey with a huge Huggy Bear off-centered and space-age fonts with numbers on the shoulder.  Yeah!  (sorry, got carried away again.)

I'm all for honoring the Cornell hockey greats in the renovated Lynah.  There's a nice, thick edge along the floor of the mezzanine that faces the entire rink.  Let's do a "Ring of Honor" instead of retiring uniform numbers.  The original thread already had people making lists of numbers to retire once we do the first one.  Let's not be that school.  Hang the name and number on the walls, and let the skaters lining up on the blue line during introductions be able to see that and feel some pride of having the same number on his back.

Heck, I'll even throw this out there: for the first full season of the renovated Lynah, let's bring back some of the legends that generations of fans haven't had the chance to meet or hear about.  One per home weekend. Celebrate all the greats.  Nieuwendyk, Dryden, Nethery, Lodboa, Harkness.  We all know the names, but we've never had a chance to give them our thanks in a proper Lynah roar.  In 1995, the 1970 team came back, and it was pretty special.

If you agree with the gist of what I've said here, sign the petition.  Don't retire the numbers.
http://www.cutradition.com/

[Jim Hyla]

[quote RichH]I'm all for honoring the Cornell hockey greats in the renovated Lynah.  There's a nice, thick edge along the floor of the mezzanine that faces the entire rink.  Let's do a "Ring of Honor" instead of retiring uniform numbers.  The original thread already had people making lists of numbers to retire once we do the first one.  Let's not be that school.  Hang the name and number on the walls, and let the skaters lining up on the blue line during introductions be able to see that and feel some pride of having the same number on his back.

If you agree with the gist of what I've said here, sign the petition.  Don't retire the numbers.
http://www.cutradition.com/[/quote]Great idea and totally agree.