The administration has gone TOO far

[evilnaturedrobot]

taken verbatim from the back of the ticket:

TO THE HOLDER OF THIS TICKET
This ticket is a revokable liscense which may be withdrawn at anytime for any reason.  no alcoholic beverages, containers, coolers, controlled substances, weapons, etc. will be allowed on the premises.  Any person who engages in disorderly or disruptive behavior such as profanity and abusive or threatening language, or the throwing of objects, shall be subject to removal without refund.  The holder assumes all risk and danger incidental to the attratcion, whether occurring prior to, durring, or subsequent to the actual atraction and agrees that the managment and it's agents and players are liable for injuries resulting from attendance at the attraction.
THIS TICKET WILL NOT BE REPLACED, REFUNDED OR EXCHANGED FOR ANY REASON, EVENT TIME, AND/OR DATE, SUBJECT TO CHANGE.  TICKETS ARE NOT REDEEMABLE FOR CASH.
*NOTE: Those leaving the event must have ticket to re-enter

doesn't say anything about being responcible for someone else using your ticket.

[Jeff Hopkins '82]

I know for professional sporting events, if your season tickets are found in the hands of a scalper, you could lose your season tickets.

Implicit in that is you sold your tickets to the scalper, but I'd guess there's no appeal process there either.

[evilnaturedrobot]

[quote mttgrmm]however in a civil suit you would still be liable for damages/injuries caused by your vehicle regardless of who was driving it.

a while back I crashed my car but my dad was still named on the title for it.  when I got sued for the damages to the other car he was named as a co-defendant and we were told that the owner is always liable, regardless of who was driving....


i agree with you that the kid shouldn't have his tickets pulled because of the actions of the kid he sold it to, but just saying the car analogy might not be the best defense.[/quote]

the thing is that no one is trying to recoup damages here.  no one was harmed by the actions of the guy who bought his ticket.  The only punishment is that the 'liscense' to attend hockey games is being revoked, so I think the drivers liscece analogy might work.

[oceanst41]

But it is a revokable license, which can be withdrawn for any reason.

So I guess technically they really can throw you out for being loud. ::bang::

[evilnaturedrobot]

how was the ticket sold?  did you do it through the elynah ticket exchange?  was it done over email?  if you can point to a record of this transaction that proves that you did sell the ticket (and didn't do so for more than 20% above face value) then that would help your case.

[ugarte]

[quote mttgrmm]however in a civil suit you would still be liable for damages/injuries caused by your vehicle regardless of who was driving it.[/quote]You probably don't realize how broad this is. If someone steals your car and crashes it, you are liable for the damage caused.


As to revokability, oceanst41 is right "for any reason" is broad enough that they don't have to explain. I'd still look at any literature that came with the season tickets regarding the responsibilities of season ticket holders.

[DeltaOne81]

Just because they *can* revoke it for any reason, doesn't mean they wouldn't listen to a reasonable appeal. He should definitely discuss this with those in charge, and if he has to, fight it at the JA, ombudsman, whatever.

If all else fails, buy single game tickets. But its worth a polite, reasoned, strong argument.


And it has nothing to do with the ushers.

[mttgrmm]

Yeah it's not that nobody's pursuing damages, it's the point that he is responsible for the person in possession of his ticket.  It's definitely worth trying to speak honestly with the (fire) AD and/or JA, especially if he has some sort of paper trail clearly showing his sale to this other kid.

Without the paper trail, it might be hard to convince anyone that it wasn't him that got kicked out.  I can see the authorities viewing his "I sold it!" claim as him just trying to act like he wasn't there.

In my experience, the JA people are actually pretty reasonable, but I worry that by the time it gets there the issue would be less the getting tossed from the hockey game and more the failing to comply with an order to return the tickets.  I'm not exactly sure of the Ombudsman's role in the University, but maybe getting him/her involved could help your argument.... my gut feeling is that he's screwed.

[KeithK]

[quote ugarte][quote mttgrmm]however in a civil suit you would still be liable for damages/injuries caused by your vehicle regardless of who was driving it.[/quote]You probably don't realize how broad this is. If someone steals your car and crashes it, you are liable for the damage caused.
[/quote]Are you serious?  If som, yet another reason why we need tort reform in this country. Geez. (I'd settle for narrow reforms that remove assinine liabilities like this.)

[rlb37]

I hate to weigh in without specific information - but I do remember talking about this issue with someone at the athletics office when I bought my season tickets (grad) this fall.  This policy is spelled out on the peice of paper that has one's line number - the peice of paper that you have to sign to get your tickets.  The number, the name of the person and the ticket are linked together in their system.  Most people sign the line number form and hand it back to the AO in exchange for the tickets without reading it carefully, but as the guy said to me - it's a signed contract they have on file for the rest of the season.  And (I believe) it says that you aren't allowed to sell or exchange your tickets, and if you do, you will be held responsible for the behavior of the ticket holder at game time.  And if you violate this policy, then the season tickets are revoked....  (what seems odd to me is that you don't get a copy of the agreement to review and remind yourself of later - possibly an arguing point with the JA/Ombudsman)

Yes, the lesson is - toss the stub if you get nabbed by the ushers!

[mttgrmm]

I still have my line number form (I got my tickets off the wait list and didn't have to turn mine in).  Word for word:



Cornell University and the NCAA promote good sportsmanship and prohibit intimidation of athletes, coaches, officials, and spectators.  Cornell requests your cooperation by supporting the participants and officials in a positive manner.  Profanity, racial or sexist comments, written statements, or other intimidating actions directed at officials, student-athletes, coaches, team representatives or spectators are not tolerated.  Violations will result in expulsion from the event and revocation of season tickets.
This statement is official notification of the sportsmanship policy and no second chances for inappropriate behavior will be given.  Cornell reserves the right to determine what actions, statements and words constitute unsportsmanlike/intimidating behavior.

By signing this document I acknowledge that I have read the above sportsmanship statement and understand this Cornell Athletic Department policy and agree to abide by the terms herein.  Furthermore, if my tickets are revoked then any tickets that are given or sold to other persons are also invalid, and if someone using one of my game tickets is expelled for violating the above policy I understand that my season tickets may be revoked as a result of their actions.

By signing this document I also give the Cornell Athletic Department permission to charge my bursar account the amount indicated as payment for my hockey tickets.

[ugarte]

[quote KeithK][quote ugarte][quote mttgrmm]however in a civil suit you would still be liable for damages/injuries caused by your vehicle regardless of who was driving it.[/quote]You probably don't realize how broad this is. If someone steals your car and crashes it, you are liable for the damage caused.
[/quote]Are you serious?  If som, yet another reason why we need tort reform in this country. Geez. (I'd settle for narrow reforms that remove assinine liabilities like this.)[/quote]Yes. The policy is there to protect the most innocent person in the scenario: the person that the thief caused damage to. The logic goes that you are responsible for securing your car from theft, the car is insured and (theoretically), as the owner of the car you can sue the driver.


It is burden shifting from the innocent person who didn't assume any risk to an agent who did (the insurance company) and more logical than people think when they first hear it.

Tort reform is a bunch of bullshit driven by insurance company lobbyists. Most of the famous cases of runaway juries are either (a) complete fiction; (b) a kernel of truth surrounded by lots of fiction; or (c) fake cumulative statistics.

[ugarte]

[quote mttgrmm]I still have my line number form (I got my tickets off the wait list and didn't have to turn mine in).  Word for word:



Cornell University and the NCAA promote good sportsmanship and prohibit intimidation of athletes, coaches, officials, and spectators.  Cornell requests your cooperation by supporting the participants and officials in a positive manner.  Profanity, racial or sexist comments, written statements, or other intimidating actions directed at officials, student-athletes, coaches, team representatives or spectators are not tolerated.  Violations will result in expulsion from the event and revocation of season tickets.
This statement is official notification of the sportsmanship policy and no second chances for inappropriate behavior will be given.  Cornell reserves the right to determine what actions, statements and words constitute unsportsmanlike/intimidating behavior.

By signing this document I acknowledge that I have read the above sportsmanship statement and understand this Cornell Athletic Department policy and agree to abide by the terms herein.  Furthermore, if my tickets are revoked then any tickets that are given or sold to other persons are also invalid, and if someone using one of my game tickets is expelled for violating the above policy I understand that my season tickets may be revoked as a result of their actions.

By signing this document I also give the Cornell Athletic Department permission to charge my bursar account the amount indicated as payment for my hockey tickets.[/quote]Your friend has to throw his/herself on the mercy of the court, las224. But I wouldn't expect much in the current climate.

[oceanst41]

[quote mttgrmm]I still have my line number form (I got my tickets off the wait list and didn't have to turn mine in).  Word for word:



Cornell University and the NCAA promote good sportsmanship and prohibit intimidation of athletes, coaches, officials, and spectators.  Cornell requests your cooperation by supporting the participants and officials in a positive manner.  Profanity, racial or sexist comments, written statements, or other intimidating actions directed at officials, student-athletes, coaches, team representatives or spectators are not tolerated.  Violations will result in expulsion from the event and revocation of season tickets.
This statement is official notification of the sportsmanship policy and no second chances for inappropriate behavior will be given.  Cornell reserves the right to determine what actions, statements and words constitute unsportsmanlike/intimidating behavior.

By signing this document I acknowledge that I have read the above sportsmanship statement and understand this Cornell Athletic Department policy and agree to abide by the terms herein.  Furthermore, if my tickets are revoked then any tickets that are given or sold to other persons are also invalid, and if someone using one of my game tickets is expelled for violating the above policy I understand that my season tickets may be revoked as a result of their actions.

By signing this document I also give the Cornell Athletic Department permission to charge my bursar account the amount indicated as payment for my hockey tickets.[/quote]

Well the case really doesn't look good now.

[BCrespi]

Matt, stop getting in trouble with the JA.  You're a grad student now for crying out loud!  I miss our Freshman year...kinda.