Dartmouth AD apology

[Robb]

[quote jtwcornell91]
Obviously, not every American Indian student on campus is protesting.  But it's my understanding that many American Indian organizations have objected:

http://www.und.edu/org/bridges/indianprograms.html

I'm not aware of any American Indian organizations at UND that have supported the nickname.[/quote]
That link is to a letter from faculty members in the year 2000.  I wouldn't make the leap to assume that the Native American students who are enrolled in the year 2006 feel the same way.  I certainly held very different beliefs from many of my professors, in spite of their attempts to brainwas.., er, teach, me.

[Al DeFlorio]

http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2006/12/29/criticism_of_teams_name_heats_up_dartmouth_game/

[Lauren '06]

No protests are planned for tonight's game, according to Michael Hanitchak , director of Dartmouth's Native American Program, although he said some students wanted Dartmouth to cancel the game.

I'm guessing these would be students who don't give a flying fig about hockey at any other time?

[ugarte]

[quote Section A Banshee]

No protests are planned for tonight's game, according to Michael Hanitchak , director of Dartmouth's Native American Program, although he said some students wanted Dartmouth to cancel the game.

I'm guessing these would be students who don't give a flying fig about hockey at any other time?[/quote]Probably. Because the protest is about hockey. I'm sure if it were the North Dakota swim team they wouldn't care.

[Jim Hyla]

Several universities, including the University of Iowa and the University of Wisconsin, decline to compete against teams with Native American symbols, Williams said

So does that mean the WCHA is no more, or just that the reporter didn't know what he was talking about?::nut::

[KeithK]

[quote Jim Hyla]

Several universities, including the University of Iowa and the University of Wisconsin, decline to compete against teams with Native American symbols, Williams said

So does that mean the WCHA is no more, or just that the reporter didn't know what he was talking about?::nut::[/quote]As I understand it, Wisconsin no longer schedules games against schools with Indian nicknames but will play conference games against those schools.

[billhoward]

>>> Dartmouth, in Hanover, N.H., has decided to set up a committee that will consider whether the school should refuse to compete against teams that use Native American nicknames and mascots.

There's precedence. Don't the Iraq or Iran Olympic teams forfeit if they advance far enough to meet an Israeli wrestler or boxer?

Wisconsin's refusal to play Indian-name teams but the ban applies only outside the conference (eg North Dakota games are okay) and probably the NCAAs (in case the Florida Seminoles suddenly take to the ice) rings hollow. If they really had stones, they'd declare the Wisonsin-ND series a no-play forfeit. That'd be a meaningful and attention-getting gesture.

[RichH]

[quote KeithK][quote Jim Hyla]

Several universities, including the University of Iowa and the University of Wisconsin, decline to compete against teams with Native American symbols, Williams said

So does that mean the WCHA is no more, or just that the reporter didn't know what he was talking about?::nut::[/quote]As I understand it, Wisconsin no longer schedules games against schools with Indian nicknames but will play conference games against those schools.[/quote]

Similar news from the Twin Cities, and a similar unexplained hypocrisy:

http://wcco.com/local/local_story_353093703.html

[KeithK]

[quote billhoward]Wisconsin's refusal to play Indian-name teams but the ban applies only outside the conference (eg North Dakota games are okay) and probably the NCAAs (in case the Florida Seminoles suddenly take to the ice) rings hollow. If they really had stones, they'd declare the Wisonsin-ND series a no-play forfeit. That'd be a meaningful and attention-getting gesture.[/quote]While such a gesture might make some folks at Wisconsin (or wherever) feel good, it would do very little to change minds at NoDak.  The Sioux would laugh all the way to the bank with their free victories.  (And rightly so...)

[ugarte]

[quote KeithK][quote billhoward]Wisconsin's refusal to play Indian-name teams but the ban applies only outside the conference (eg North Dakota games are okay) and probably the NCAAs (in case the Florida Seminoles suddenly take to the ice) rings hollow. If they really had stones, they'd declare the Wisonsin-ND series a no-play forfeit. That'd be a meaningful and attention-getting gesture.[/quote]While such a gesture might make some folks at Wisconsin (or wherever) feel good, it would do very little to change minds at NoDak.  The Sioux would laugh all the way to the bank with their free victories.  (And rightly so...)[/quote]More significantly, I'm not even sure it is hypocrisy. Not everything that falls short of complete ideological purity is hypocrisy.

Wisconsin has to balance a lot of interests. Refusing to schedule new games while not withdrawing from a hockey conference or throwing away earned postseason appearances is a reasonable compromise for a large institution that has multiple stakeholders and agendas. It may earn them cheap shots from defenders of Native American team names and garment-rending from the most self-righteous campaigners for change but middle-of-the-road is not an empty gesture. The current policy is more culturally sensitive than the "who cares?" crowd and more realistic from people who think it is realistic for a school to sacrifice millions of dollars every time a principle is impinged upon.

[schoaff]

[quote marty]Not completely.  The AD at Dartmouth apologized for the pain caused.  That implies someone was hurt.  And that is why I have a problem with her (the AD's) statement more than if we just brought up the old Cowboys and Indians argument or whatever the argument is....if it is still OK to call them Indians...

The exagerated response by calling it pain causes me pain.  She is over the top.[/quote]

I just read last month's Dartmouth alumni magazine and their lead story this month was about how the college founders owned slaves and many of the older buildings were probably built by slave labor. Maybe the NCAA should refuse to let colleges play in their tournaments until they demolish all pre-1865 buildings. ::innocent::

[billhoward]

[quote schoaff][quote marty]Not completely.  The AD at Dartmouth apologized for the pain caused.  That implies someone was hurt.  And that is why I have a problem with her (the AD's) statement more than if we just brought up the old Cowboys and Indians argument or whatever the argument is....if it is still OK to call them Indians...

The exagerated response by calling it pain causes me pain.  She is over the top.[/quote]

I just read last month's Dartmouth alumni magazine and their lead story this month was about how the college founders owned slaves and many of the older buildings were probably built by slave labor. Maybe the NCAA should refuse to let colleges play in their tournaments until they demolish all pre-1865 buildings. ::innocent::[/quote]

Brown spent a lot of effort the last couple years digging into Brown's and its backers' slave-owning, keep-'em-down-on-the-farm past lives. At the time, it sounded IMO like much teeth-gnashing about stuff that's long, long ago when Brown has other more urgent issues to confront ... but once the report came out, it was pretty eye-opening. (There's also talk of reparations.) If Brown and Dartmouth self-examine, it begs the question of when the other Ivies do the same. And do you start and stop with blacks or also look into discrimination against women, Jews, Asians, and the Irish?

[Jeff Hopkins '82]

[quote billhoward][quote schoaff][quote marty]Not completely.  The AD at Dartmouth apologized for the pain caused.  That implies someone was hurt.  And that is why I have a problem with her (the AD's) statement more than if we just brought up the old Cowboys and Indians argument or whatever the argument is....if it is still OK to call them Indians...

The exagerated response by calling it pain causes me pain.  She is over the top.[/quote]

I just read last month's Dartmouth alumni magazine and their lead story this month was about how the college founders owned slaves and many of the older buildings were probably built by slave labor. Maybe the NCAA should refuse to let colleges play in their tournaments until they demolish all pre-1865 buildings. ::innocent::[/quote]

Brown spent a lot of effort the last couple years digging into Brown's and its backers' slave-owning, keep-'em-down-on-the-farm past lives. At the time, it sounded IMO like much teeth-gnashing about stuff that's long, long ago when Brown has other more urgent issues to confront ... but once the report came out, it was pretty eye-opening. (There's also talk of reparations.) If Brown and Dartmouth self-examine, it begs the question of when the other Ivies do the same. And do you start and stop with blacks or also look into discrimination against women, Jews, Asians, and the Irish?[/quote]

And we're back to Notre Dame.  ::nut::

Minnesota, Wisconsin and Iowa will only play schools without Indian mascots?  I guess that means they'll never play Ilinois in football again either.  What if they wind up in a bowl game against Florida State?

C'mon, it's posturing.  That's it.

[marty]

[quote ugarte][quote KeithK][quote billhoward]Wisconsin's refusal to play Indian-name teams but the ban applies only outside the conference (eg North Dakota games are okay) and probably the NCAAs (in case the Florida Seminoles suddenly take to the ice) rings hollow. If they really had stones, they'd declare the Wisonsin-ND series a no-play forfeit. That'd be a meaningful and attention-getting gesture.[/quote]While such a gesture might make some folks at Wisconsin (or wherever) feel good, it would do very little to change minds at NoDak.  The Sioux would laugh all the way to the bank with their free victories.  (And rightly so...)[/quote]More significantly, I'm not even sure it is hypocrisy. Not everything that falls short of complete ideological purity is hypocrisy.

Wisconsin has to balance a lot of interests. .[/quote]

Maybe PETA will weigh in here.  Badgers are maligned by the inference that they are nasty little creatures.  I propose the Nutmeg as the new Wisconsin mascot.  (Goes well with their institiutional drink - Leinenkugel.)

[cth95]

I don't know.  That might upset people from Connecticut.  The "Constitution State" is also known as the "Nutmeg State".  Of course, "Nutmeg" may also cause consternation since it is often associated with spiked eggnog.    ::nut::