Quinnipiac's new rink

[Rich S]

[quote krose][quote Jordan 04]An nothing gives those on the South Hill the warm fuzzy feelings of positive elements of community like being referred to as "IK" [/quote]
LOL.  I couldn't resist.

Of the few Ithaca College alumni I know, about half of them I met through watching Cornell hockey.  Sounds strange, but it's true.  I also know that there are students there who don't have a chip on their shoulder, and laugh good-naturedly at "IK".  They expect it from us: we're assholes.

Cheer,
Kyle[/quote]

I know quite a few IC grads; in fact, I'm related to a few.  And yes, most do think you're arrogant a-holes.;-)

They also point out, fwiw, that IC overlooks the Hill that overlooks Cayuga's waters.

Take it as you will.

[ugarte]

[quote Rich S]
They also point out, fwiw, that IC overlooks the Hill that overlooks Cayuga's waters.

Take it as you will.[/quote]That is actually a very good line.

[CowbellGuy]

And a semicolon isn't an apostrophe. Sorry, couldn't resist.

Back on topic, the switch from Maalox green walls to something a bit closer to, well, green, helped the look a lot. But the place still feels very cold. Nothing says intimate like a full wall of one-way-glass luxury boxes, or whatever the hell is up there.

We've had an unusual amount of games at Cheel scheduled over winter break in the last ten years or so and those games were a perfect example. When you take all or most of the band and students out of Cheel, it's a morgue. A full house and band help combat that, but it only goes so far. Even a half-full Lynah or Appleton still feels intimate.

Having said all that, it's great having the rest of the complex and all that it offers right outside the rink, especially when you consider what's outside of that.

[Rich S]

[quote Josh '99][quote Dpperk29]have you ever been to cheel? it's actually very nice. the seats are confortable, it's loud, and just all around awesome. granted... it's not lynah... but it's awesome. we just need to get rid of the scoreboard message box and the piped in music.[/quote]I've been to Cheel.  It feels antiseptic.[/quote]

How recently was your last visit to Cheel?  The change in recent years has been significant.

Granted, it felt very antiseptic when it opened in the early 90s, but anything would feel that way compared to old Walker, nee Clarkson Arena.  Having experienced Clarkson Arena at its intimidating best in the early 70s and then having been at Cheel several times in the first few years, I had that same reaction.

But several changes in the past half-dozen years have improved the "feel" at Cheel.  Uniforms of alumni who have played or currently are playing in the NHL, photos of the past teams and coaches, All-American plaques, and trophies with lots of memorabilia give it a warmer atmosphere.

Obviously, better attendance and more vocal support in response to better results the past couple of years helps too.  Think back to what Lynah was like during the pre-Schafer down years.

Anything that would replace Lynah would feel antiseptic too.

In Clarkson's case, they HAD to replace Walker, not just to help recruiting but also because it had become prohibitively expensive to maintain anmong other reasons.

Of notable mention also is that all the money to construct Cheel Campus Center, which also contains the Student Center, for those who have not been there, came from private funds, the product of a very successful capital campaign.

I'll be at Cheel this coming weekend but anticipate less vocal support since few students will be there due to the holiday.

[Hillel Hoffmann]

[quote Dpperk29][Cheel is] actually very nice. the seats are confortable, it's loud, and just all around awesome... it's awesome.[/quote]

Did I actually just hear a student laud a barn because its seats are comfortable? Dude, this is hockey, not the Mall Walking Society. Middle aged turds like me are supposed to sit down, but you're supposed to stand.

Cheel is not awesome. Cheel is the physical manifestation of a lack of respect for tradition, which is the last thing one should expect from Clarkson. "Antiseptic" doesn't capture the lameness of the place. Those vast, empty interior walls (and their pastel hospital-wallpaper-green color) make Cheel feel like an East German senior citizen rehab center. Combine that with the piped in music, the pre-fab ceiling, and the operating room lighting, and you get one of the worst on-campus rink ambiences ever -- and I'm talking when compared to other modern facilities, apples-to-apples.

[Beeeej]

[quote Rich S]Anything that would replace Lynah would feel antiseptic too.[/quote]

I think that's a rather sweeping overgeneralization.  Certainly anything that would replace Lynah would feel different, but there is no requirement for every brand-new rink to feel antiseptic or soulless simply because it's brand-new.  There's plenty of room in design and construction for achieving a welcoming feel right out of the gate.

I haven't been to Cheel in several years (when was the huge ice storm, 1999?), but I'll take your word for it feeling warmer and more like "home" these days.

[Dpperk29]

[quote CowbellGuy]And a semicolon isn't an apostrophe. Sorry, couldn't resist.

[/quote]

sorry age... the right pinky isn't as flexible or accurate as it's suppose to be... it's been broken twice... just doesn't work like it should...

[Rich S]

[quote Hillel Hoffmann][quote Dpperk29][Cheel is] actually very nice. the seats are confortable, it's loud, and just all around awesome... it's awesome.[/quote]

Did I actually just hear a student laud a barn because its seats are comfortable? Dude, this is hockey, not the Mall Walking Society. Middle aged turds like me are supposed to sit down, but you're supposed to stand.

Cheel is not awesome. Cheel is the physical manifestation of a lack of respect for tradition, which is the last thing one should expect from Clarkson. "Antiseptic" doesn't capture the lameness of the place. Those vast, empty interior walls (and their pastel hospital-wallpaper-green color) make Cheel feel like an East German senior citizen rehab center. Combine that with the piped in music, the pre-fab ceiling, and the operating room lighting, and you get one of the worst on-campus rink ambiences ever -- and I'm talking when compared to other modern facilities, apples-to-apples.[/quote]

It appears your last visit to Cheel was many years ago.

The lousy green walls were repainted long ago, and the "vast interior walls" have not been "empty" for at least the same period.  See my post above for more details.

What's a "pre-fab" ceiling?  Would you prefer they put in one with asbestos?

trying to compare apples to apples, that's fine but please try to have current info on the fruit.  :-D

[Rich S]

I don't think it's a sweeping generalization at all.  Yes, there is some room for trying to capture a previous environment but in Lynah's case,as was posted here the last time this topic came up, current construction codes somewhat limit the options.

There are more examples of modern facilities that don't come close to replicating the atmosphere of its predecessor than there are of those that capture the same feel and soul.  Fleet Center anyone?

Clarkson Arena will always feel like "home" to me, and naturally so, I was a student then.  As much as I will always love that atmosphere, I also understand that the building was a dinosaur.  Personally, I appreciate the modern amenities.  But I do hope the students, with help from alumni like myself, make more noise consistently!

No need to take my word for it on the current Cheel.  Take a road trip after Thanksgiving to Cheel.  You can find me there easily.  Walk on over and say hello.

Oops...never mind. :-}

[Scersk '97]

Cheel : Walker :: "Modern" Hockey : Old-time Hockey :: somewhat quiet, antiseptic, warm, distracted, "family" : loud, characterful, frigid, intense, "collegiate"

Visiting Clarkson with my parents and sister (checking out SUNY-Postdam) when I was just a wee lad ('89), I was foisted on my sister's then-boyfriend, who was a member of the Clarkson Pep Band, for a hockey weekend.  My swiss-cheese memory remembers the weekend as against Princeton and Yale, but that would've been impossible given the travel pairings at the time.

So, in old Walker, I watched Clarkson dismantle Brown and Yale (by scores of 11-3 and 4-1, respectively) while playing with the band.  Two things about the Walker experience impressed me:  my feet were absolutely frozen by the end of both games and, even in the 11-3 rout, the fans were loud, vulgar, and constantly intense.  Clarkson almost made it onto my college application list because of that weekend.

The other thing you have to remember about Walker is that the ice surface was "unusual" (181' x 91': http://members.aol.com/todnielson/ncaadiv1/ecac/clarkson/tenyears.html) and Clarkson teams were built for it.  Since the move to "regulation" 200' x 85', Clarkson hasn't really looked as much like Clarkson.  (I'm not particularly sure, but Cheel's sheet always looks a bit more expansive than Lynah's, even though they're supposedly the same.)  This small ice was advantageous for Clarkson for two reasons:  similarity to the Boston Garden, which you can hear Teddy D whining about in this Crimson article http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=126685; and sheer unfamiliarity for visiting teams, which supposedly irked the last victim, Wisconsin's Sauer, quite a bit http://www.goldenknightshockey.com/roundtable/showthread.php?t=410.

Cheel's OK.  Walker was wonderful.

[Rich S]

[quote CowbellGuy]And a semicolon isn't an apostrophe. Sorry, couldn't resist.

Back on topic, the switch from Maalox green walls to something a bit closer to, well, green, helped the look a lot. But the place still feels very cold. Nothing says intimate like a full wall of one-way-glass luxury boxes, or whatever the hell is up there.

We've had an unusual amount of games at Cheel scheduled over winter break in the last ten years or so and those games were a perfect example. When you take all or most of the band and students out of Cheel, it's a morgue. A full house and band help combat that, but it only goes so far. Even a half-full Lynah or Appleton still feels intimate.

Having said all that, it's great having the rest of the complex and all that it offers right outside the rink, especially when you consider what's outside of that.[/quote]

No luxury boxes at Cheel, are you kidding me?  This is the North Country!

"Whatever the hell is up there" is the Barben Room, which is meeting space/ a dining facility, and is used for pre-game meals and post game gatherings for Booster Club members.  Very much a multi-purpose facilty.

I've been to Lynah and Appleton when they were much less than full and comparatively quiet.  Not much intimacy there.  :-D

[Cop at Lynah]

I agree that the added locker rooms and such were very much needed, however to take a 3800 seat venue without a bad seat in the house and increase the seating to 4200 with many obstructed view seats doesn't make much sense.

[Tom Lento]

[quote Rich S]
Anything that would replace Lynah would feel antiseptic too.

In Clarkson's case, they HAD to replace Walker, not just to help recruiting but also because it had become prohibitively expensive to maintain anmong other reasons.

Of notable mention also is that all the money to construct Cheel Campus Center, which also contains the Student Center, for those who have not been there, came from private funds, the product of a very successful capital campaign.
[/quote]

Money is the big issue.  Lynah hasn't been replaced out of respect for tradition, maybe, but also because they decided the maintenance costs are bearable.  At some point, maybe not too far off into the future, Lynah will become prohibitively expensive to maintain, or fire codes will change, or some wealthy alum will donate $100 million for a new hockey arena, and the AD will decide it's time to build a new rink.  It's more likely to happen if the money for the rinnk comes from private funds and donations, and it's not likely to happen within the next 10 years due to the recent renovations, but it'll happen eventually.

I just hope when it does that they don't try to create a modern, fire-code-friendly, expanded version of Lynah.  They need to build a good facility that makes it possible for the students to re-create the game-time *atmosphere* of Lynah, which (apart from the history of the building) is what makes it special.  Any attempts to build that into the rink will surely backfire.

[Hillel Hoffmann]

[quote Rich S][quote Hillel Hoffmann][quote Dpperk29][Cheel is] actually very nice. the seats are confortable, it's loud, and just all around awesome... it's awesome.[/quote]

Did I actually just hear a student laud a barn because its seats are comfortable? Dude, this is hockey, not the Mall Walking Society. Middle aged turds like me are supposed to sit down, but you're supposed to stand.

Cheel is not awesome. Cheel is the physical manifestation of a lack of respect for tradition, which is the last thing one should expect from Clarkson. "Antiseptic" doesn't capture the lameness of the place. Those vast, empty interior walls (and their pastel hospital-wallpaper-green color) make Cheel feel like an East German senior citizen rehab center. Combine that with the piped in music, the pre-fab ceiling, and the operating room lighting, and you get one of the worst on-campus rink ambiences ever -- and I'm talking when compared to other modern facilities, apples-to-apples.[/quote]

It appears your last visit to Cheel was many years ago. The lousy green walls were repainted long ago, and the "vast interior walls" have not been "empty" for at least the same period.[/quote]

Too true! Haven't been there these last few years. So you're telling me that they have something on those vast walls way above the seats? These walls, I mean (picture from Todd N's site): http://members.aol.com/cmhockey2/photos/cheel.inside.gif If so, then maybe Cheel has graduated from horrific to tolerable (at least once the piped in music bites the dust).

The dollars donated by Clarkson friends and alumni could have been used so much better. There are plenty of fabulous modern barns that accomplish so much more. I like Quinnipiac's renderings, for example. Their planned new rink also shares a wall with another facility. Now that's a ceiling, my man: http://graphics.fansonly.com/schools/quic/graphics/hud-hockey-250.jpg

[KeithK]

[quote Rich S]How recently was your last visit to Cheel?  The change in recent years has been significant.

Granted, it felt very antiseptic when it opened in the early 90s, but anything would feel that way compared to old Walker, nee Clarkson Arena.  ...
But several changes in the past half-dozen years have improved the "feel" at Cheel.[/quote]I haven't made it to Cheel since 1999.  I'd heard that they'd taken steps to improve the place, including the new paint job.  That's good to hear.


[quote Rich S]Anything that would replace Lynah would feel antiseptic too.[/quote]

I agree with you that anything that replaced Lynah would feel somewhat antiseptic in comparison.  That was my point in using the Cheel example to refute the oringal poster. Yes, a new arena doesn't have to feel like a morgue - good design and attention to detail can result in a nice place.  But inevitably the focus in new arenas on "amenities" like boxes, comfy seats, cupholders, etc. makes it difficult to create the kind of intimacy you have in old arenas. Not to mention fire codes. For example, Wider, comfortable seats don't pack as densely as bench seating. High ceilings that support center ice scoreboards tend to make the environment less loud.

[quote Rich S]In Clarkson's case, they HAD to replace Walker, not just to help recruiting but also because it had become prohibitively expensive to maintain anmong other reasons.[/quote]I can understand that. From what little I saw I can imagine that renovating it to provide off ice facilities needed for recruiting would be difficult and expensive.  I'm just glad that we have been able to do that with Lynah.