NCAA tournament 2016

[Dafatone]

There is a perfectly good American solution to this problem.  Just pay the tribe off.

One thing to keep in mind is that "Sioux" is, from what I understand, an iffy term that not many Native Americans seem to like.  It throws a handful of different groups under one umbrella.  While some of those groups have Sioux in their name, others do not.

For some groups, "pay the tribe off" or "get the tribe's approval" seems to work (I think the Florida State Seminoles falls under this).  It's trickier for Sioux.

The current North Dakota state highway symbol is a silhouette of a native guy in a headdress: http://www.usa-traffic-signs.com/v/vspfiles/photos/m1-5_ND_s-2.gif.  The headdress is a big deal, being a very important/sacred kind of thing.  Throwing it on highway signs is, for lack of a better word, lame.

Add in the whole Ralph Engelstad threw birthday parties for Hitler, and I'm pretty happy to oppose anything he wanted.

Also, North Dakota sucks.

[Jim Hyla]

That said, "Quinnipiac University" is also a problematic indian appropriation in my eyes. Anyway, I enjoyed the hockey game and liked watching UND's talent shine.

I guess we'll have to rename the river, many other geological features, and much of everything in upstate New York. Is it better to erase history or to come to grips with it in all its complexity?

Or dig deeper to understand the context and perhaps find that one use of an Indian name honors the heritage and another is a stereotype? Reading only a little about Ralph Englestadt makes him (and his causes) a figure you don't sympathize with.

+1

The Native Americans around me have never been bothered by having us name the Finger Lakes after their tribes. They consider Onondaga Lake sacred and have worked hard to get it's pollution under control. No, they do want respect and not to be made into characters.

[Dafatone]

That said, "Quinnipiac University" is also a problematic indian appropriation in my eyes. Anyway, I enjoyed the hockey game and liked watching UND's talent shine.

I guess we'll have to rename the river, many other geological features, and much of everything in upstate New York. Is it better to erase history or to come to grips with it in all its complexity?

Or dig deeper to understand the context and perhaps find that one use of an Indian name honors the heritage and another is a stereotype? Reading only a little about Ralph Englestadt makes him (and his causes) a figure you don't sympathize with.

+1

The Native Americans around me have never been bothered by having us name the Finger Lakes after their tribes. They consider Onondaga Lake sacred and have worked hard to get it's pollution under control. No, they do want respect and not to be made into characters.

Meanwhile, in South Dakota, the local sacred lands have presidents' faces carved into them.

[billhoward]

Also, North Dakota sucks.

How does one work up feelings about a flyover state?

Anyway, better them than the Finger Lakes (sacred lake names and all) as the source of fracked oil products.

[Dafatone]

Also, North Dakota sucks.

How does one work up feelings about a flyover state?

Anyway, better them than the Finger Lakes (sacred lake names and all) as the source of fracked oil products.

Live in a neighboring flyover state (in my case, South Dakota).

[billhoward]

Also, North Dakota sucks.

How does one work up feelings about a flyover state?
Anyway, better them than the Finger Lakes (sacred lake names and all) as the source of fracked oil products.

Live in a neighboring flyover state (in my case, South Dakota).

That's different. South Dakota hashad Gateway Computer.

[Scersk '97]

That said, "Quinnipiac University" is also a problematic indian appropriation in my eyes. Anyway, I enjoyed the hockey game and liked watching UND's talent shine.

I guess we'll have to rename the river, many other geological features, and much of everything in upstate New York. Is it better to erase history or to come to grips with it in all its complexity?

Or dig deeper to understand the context and perhaps find that one use of an Indian name honors the heritage and another is a stereotype? Reading only a little about Ralph Englestadt makes him (and his causes) a figure you don't sympathize with.

+1

The Native Americans around me have never been bothered by having us name the Finger Lakes after their tribes. They consider Onondaga Lake sacred and have worked hard to get it's pollution under control. No, they do want respect and not to be made into characters.

Oh, I wasn't defending the Sioux; rather paradoxically, if you know me well, I was defending Quinnipiac.

After jettisoning "the Braves," there's really nothing about Quinnipiac's tribal name appropriation—other than the act of appropriation in the first place—that strikes me as disrespectful. Going back to the "University's" founding, it was located briefly in New Haven. Given that there was already a "New Haven YMCA Junior College," now the University of New Haven, which became "New Haven College" in 1926, the "Connecticut College of Commerce" (1929) needed to associate itself with a different geological feature / local name association when its administration sought to change its "target market" in 1951.

[RichH]

One thing to keep in mind is that "Sioux" is, from what I understand, an iffy term that not many Native Americans seem to like.  It throws a handful of different groups under one umbrella.  While some of those groups have Sioux in their name, others do not.

Like Iroquois? For the record, I have no idea if that is similar or if Native Americans "like" that name, or if it has similar connotations to the "Sioux" umbrella you describe. I'm just trying to spell out that it sounds similar to the "Six Nations" of the Iroquois confederacy that I learned growing up in the Finger Lakes region.

The current North Dakota state highway symbol is a silhouette of a native guy in a headdress: http://www.usa-traffic-signs.com/v/vspfiles/photos/m1-5_ND_s-2.gif.  The headdress is a big deal, being a very important/sacred kind of thing.  Throwing it on highway signs is, for lack of a better word, lame.

Again, just a bell rung from something from my home. There's less of an obvious "headdress," but it is putting a Native American on a highway sign.

[RichH]

To wrap up my trip, having the Frozen Four in Tampa twice in a 5-year period was a little much. The 2012 Frozen Four was a well-managed machine and a great success considering the location, and this time around, some spots started to show, if you ask me.

First, there was a clear drop-off of the usual school diversity, as I feel a lot of the "regulars" just didn't want to travel all that way again for a non-traditional destination location so soon. The tournament and organizers were lucky that North Dakota grabbed the ring this year. From my perch in the Club Level, I counted around 14 sections in the lower bowl where the primary color was Green. North Dakota fans also snapped up an awful lot of the luxury boxes. I'd say this was the biggest North Dakota turn out I have ever seen, and that is saying something.  At the semifinals, they were still advertising that tickets were still available for Saturday night via the public address system.

They tried separate tickets for each of the Semifinals. This meant that at the end of the 1st semifinal, EVERYBODY had to exit the arena. While annoying, it worked out better than I thought, considering there's a large plaza at the main exit where they staged the FanFest with bands and there were vendors selling tall-boy cans of beer. They also moved the metal-detectors out to the perimeter of the plaza, so you wouldn't have to get frisked/wanded again unless you left the plaza/parking garage area. I decided to wander over to the group of tourist bars a few blocks away, which not a whole lot of other people did, except for the people who are enthusiastic fans of "Hooters." Very disappointing compared to the options they had in 2012.

One thing they could do because of the separate admission was only designate two of the four corners of the lower bowl as participant school seating and sell more of those premium seats. So the tickets that Denver got for their semi were the same seats that Quinnipiac received. The main corner for NoDak was were BC had been sitting. And the bands were at the top of those sections in the lower bowl instead of thrown up in nose-bleed land. This meant the bands didn't even need to be mic'ed, which was nice. And the noticable empty sections were way at the top of the upper deck, instead of center ice. Fans were able to buy good seats, instead of reserving them for sponsors "Corporate Champions" who wouldn't show up.

Otherwise, the fan experience wasn't great. Long lines at the few souvenir tables, and the food was as expensive as I had seen. They didn't get their shipment of souvenir pucks on Thursday, and by the time I got into the arena on Saturday (15 minutes before anthems), all the tables had sold out of pucks. Oh, and I got harassed by some young jerk usher who condescendingly smiled as he threatened to throw me out for trying to go to the bathroom in a different section of my level. I still don't know what I did wrong.

I ran into Mr. & Mrs. Hilbrich, still wearing their half/half CU/QU jerseys. And I met an old-timer wearing a Keith Peach jersey out on the plaza. Barry Melrose was on my Southwest flight back to Connecticut, but I didn't punch him in the mullet for any of you. He was quieter than the over-confident QU homers who were woofing on my flight there.

If I didn't have snowbirding family to visit, I would have been fine skipping it. Hopefully it will be another 20 years before Tampa gets it again. I'm excited about Chicago.

[Beeeej]

If I didn't have snowbirding family to visit, I would have been fine skipping it. Hopefully it will be another 20 years before Tampa gets it again. I'm excited about Chicago.

I was disappointed to have to miss it, not just because I didn't make it to Tampa for 2012, but also because I/we haven't attended a Frozen Four since the ridiculously tortured Vegas/Pittsburgh/West Palm Beach/Orlando route we took in order to be there amidst other commitments in 2013. I'm excited about Chicago in 2017 and St. Paul in 2018; the food, beer, and friends situations should all be great.

Isn't it about the time they should be picking sites for 2019-21, by the way?

[billhoward]

Nice report!