[HOOPS]Cornell 62 vs Cornell Rejects 67

[Chris \'03]

[Q]DeltaOne81 Wrote:


And even the best Ivys are probably around number 300 most years. The difference from top to bottom in hockey is probably an order of magnitude less than that in basketball. The winners of the AHA and CHA can play with the big boys (and they've proved it). The winner of the Ivy is usually blown out in the first round by someone towards the bottom of the top 25.

There's a serious difference between sports.



Edited 2 times. Last edit at 11/10/05 01:03PM by DeltaOne81.[/q]


To be fair Ivy basketball is actually a higher level than a bunch of the crap conferences out there.  Of 330 teams last season, Ivy RPIs were:
Penn- 42
Cornell- 200
Princeton- 115
Brown- 227
Yale- 178
Dartmouth- 240
Harvard- 183
Columbia- 267

Of course that has a good bit to do with OOC scheduling, but I think it's a bit of a put down to say that the best of the Ivies is #300. On the whole they are better than that (which is not to say Cornell hasn't competed for 330 a few times in recent history). Though I will concede that college basketball and hockey are two completely different animals.

As far as the magnitude of the game last night, I'd say that a win would have been great. A big shock. I probably would have gone to MSG to see the spectacle of Bobby Knight vs. Cornell.
But when push comes to shove, I'd rather beat Penn.

[DeltaOne81]

Actually, I wrote that when I first thought that there were 400 teams. Then I found out it was only 330. So the equivalent would be me saying that the Ivies don't get much above 200-250.

Other than Penn & Princeton, I wasn't far off, although I did underestimate the Ivies a bit, I admit. Then again, I'm sure the insular schedule helps, and we all know the flaws of RPI. I have a tough time seeing Penn as the #42 team in the country , after losing to BC by 20 points.

This is not to take away from the great game we had yesterday, but just to put it in perspective of a lot of luck, against a team that was having an off night, and to put in perspective how very difficult getting close to the top 25 in basketball is, versus the "come one, come all" nature of the top 20 in hockey.

[jbeaber1998]

Mention on ESPN's Daily Quickie...

Cornell gives Syracuse a game, only loses 67-62. Perhaps these early-season cupcakes are finally giving the Orange a stomachache?

[CM cWo 44]

Seeing as how there are over 300 NCAA basketball teams, the top 25 represents an much higher class of team than the top 15 in college hockey. To beat a top 25 team on the road, and to play another tough early in the season when no one else has played any games, would certainly garner top 25 interest.
You can site a number of examples of teams that have made a cindarella run in the Preseason NIT, and found themselves in the top 25 early. Since no one else has played any teams, to make a statement against top competition makes you stand out in the eyes of the media.
Also, the comparison to a hockey upset isn't a comparison at all. It is monumentally easier for a lesser hockey team to upset at top flight team due to the low scoring nature of the games, and the fact that top tier college basketball teams have a huge advantage in athleticism. Not to mention the parity of talent in college hocket caused by having 1/5 as many teams.

Not that any of this matters cause we lost, but the very fact that there are so many teams in college basketball makes big wins more valuable, and much more likely to garner national attention. So do not scoff at my previous contention. :-P

[ugarte]

[Q]CM cWo 44 Wrote:You can [c]ite a number of examples of teams that have made a [C]ind[e]rella run in the Preseason NIT, and found themselves in the top 25 early. Since no one else has played any teams, to make a statement against top competition makes you stand out in the eyes of the media.[/q]Those teams were (1) major conference schools (or at least mid-major with recent NCAA tourney success) and (2) at least made the finals of the preseason tournament. They didn't crack the top 25 by beating the #16 team on the road and then losing respectably in a neutral site game.

Cornell will make the top 25 in bball the day after never.

[DeltaOne81]

I gotta agree with UGarte. There's a difference between a hockey school like QU or Mercyhurst or Bemidji doing well, cause they've done well in the past are are a 'mid-major' kinda team. Compared to someone like Bentley or AIC. The more you need to change people's mind, the more you need to prove it.

Also not to mention that it was obvious that Syracuse played awful yesterday. We didn't hang with a top 25 team playing well, we hung with one playing and shooting like crap. That wouldn't escape the notice of the pollsters

[ugarte]

[Q]DeltaOne81 Wrote: That wouldn't escape the notice of the pollsters[/q]Here I have to disagree. All that voters/pollsters seem to notice are the easiest things to notice. Here it would just be the final score.