The GAA Battle

[nyc94]

[Q]jeh25 Wrote:
Yet culturally, we allow the Prius owner to feel morally superior to the Excursion owner.
[/q]

Who is "we"?  

[KeithK]

[q]One solution would be progressive pricing on electricity and natural gas where the first X kWh or CCF costing less, but I'm not holding my breath.[/q]Yeah, but then you get some self-righteous legislators or regulators deciding what is the "necessary" or appropriate amount of energy consumption that will be untaxed or lightly taxed.  No thanks.

[Robb]

[Q]KeithK Wrote:

 [Q2]One solution would be progressive pricing on electricity and natural gas where the first X kWh or CCF costing less, but I'm not holding my breath.[/Q]
Yeah, but then you get some self-righteous legislators or regulators deciding what is the "necessary" or appropriate amount of energy consumption that will be untaxed or lightly taxed.  No thanks.[/q]
Why not?  They already do it (totally arbitrarily) with income - the first $X aren't taxed, whether you live in rural Alabama or downtown Manhattan.

[KeithK]

[q]Why not? They already do it (totally arbitrarily) with income - the first $X aren't taxed, whether you live in rural Alabama or downtown Manhattan. [/q]The fact that it's already done for one thing doesn't mean we should do it for others.

[Greg Berge]

[Q]KeithK Wrote:Yeah, but then you get some self-righteous legislators or regulators deciding what is the "necessary" or appropriate amount of energy consumption that will be untaxed or lightly taxed.  No thanks.[/q]Specious argument.  It isn't the legislator or the regulator who chooses policy, it's us through the electoral process.  If the policies don't match what people want, they either aren't enacted in the first place or they are overthrown from the voting booth.  That's why we don't have the highly progressive income brackets of the 50's and 60's (which never seemed to slow down the economy or the entrepeneurial spirit, by the way) anymore, and also why we'll never have a truly exemption-free (as in, no home mortgage interest write-off) flat rate.  The voters keep both the Mommy State of the left and the Kleptocracy of the right in line.

[jeh25]

[Q]Greg Berge Wrote:

 [Q2]KeithK Wrote:Yeah, but then you get some self-righteous legislators or regulators deciding what is the "necessary" or appropriate amount of energy consumption that will be untaxed or lightly taxed.  No thanks.[/Q]
Specious argument.  It isn't the legislator or the regulator who chooses policy, it's us through the electoral process.  If the policies don't match what people want, they either aren't enacted in the first place or they are overthrown from the voting booth.  That's why we don't have the highly progressive income brackets of the 50's and 60's (which never seemed to slow down the economy or the entrepeneurial spirit, by the way) anymore, and also why we'll never have a truly exemption-free (as in, no home mortgage interest write-off) flat rate.  The voters keep both the Mommy State of the left and the Kleptocracy of the right in line.[/q]

Moreover, it pretends that the energy market is some sort of Smithian free market when it is about the most regulated market I can think of. And clearly, deregulation and for-profit energy companies are so much better than the bad old public owned utility days.  I know I loved living with rolling blackouts in Oakland. And look what a bang up job FirstEnergy did in  investing in their infrastructure in Ohio.

We have a 3rd world power system in this country. Maybe its time we acknowledge that is a public good. We maintain interstate highways with federal dollars. Why not the power grid?

But back to the original point, it ain't sexy like fuel cells or geothermal, but conservation (negawatts) is one of the best ways to reduce consumption. But folks in Cupertino or Fairfield will never conserve as long as a)power is cheap and b) they can dump the pollution on Richmond or New Haven.

Keith, in the big picture, encouraging wiser use via tiered pricing is a lot cheaper than restarting Rancho Seco.

[Willy '06]

We Fairfielders don't dump our pollution on New Haven, we dump it on Bridgeport.

[billhoward]

[Q]nyc94 Wrote:
 [Q2]jeh25 Wrote:
Yet culturally, we allow the Prius owner to feel morally superior to the Excursion owner.
[/Q] Who is "we"?  
[/q]

[more OT stuff] We is everybody who does a story in the New York Times about "gas-guzzling" Suburbans and never a word about big houses or multiple houses and the ski house is always heated ... who don't question the validity of the Prius as the only car when you've got kids (then you need two cars to take five kids to soccer) (not that Prius isn't an amazing feat, but so is a regular Honda Civic or a diesel VW Jetta)  ... those of us flying to Europe on vacation vs. taking a train or bus (like that'll ever happen) to Cape Cod or the Jersey shore ... who write about GM's alleged reluctance to tighten CAFE and pollution another 10% when half of all pollution is caused by the dirtiest 10% of cars (which happen to be owned disproportionately by the poor) ... who have an outdoor Jacuzzi that's heated year-round ... who help their kids write papers about energy conservation and let them take 25 minute hot-water showers ... who think diesel is dirty because of the olfactory issue (you notice the smell so it must be polluting) .... who don't wonder how that ultra-clean-burning hydrogen got compressed to 5,000 psi to go in your 2010 zero-emissios vehicle (maybe it was a solar powered compressor and hydrogen extractor) ...

Rational energy usage is so complex and yet we simplify it by calling out a few demons.

I think one of the important advances of the next generation will be to maintain our lifestyle while scaling back energy consumption. I bet it can be done. Frankly, I don't want to be taking one shower a week and living in an un-air conditioned house.

Sheesh, I hope the student senate, if it still exists, doesn't try to do its part by urging Lynah to refrigerate the ice but only down to a more energy efficient 38 degrees.

[ugarte]

This conversation is boring. I demand that you stop it.

Love,
that guy from another post

[Greg Berge]

[Q]ugarte Wrote:

 This conversation is boring. I demand that you stop it.

Love,
that guy from another post[/q]

LOL! :-)