State of Cornell Athletics
Posted by scoop85
State of Cornell Athletics
Posted by: scoop85 (---.hvc.res.rr.com)
Date: October 30, 2021 06:15PM
With men’s soccer losing 2-1 at Princeton, it seems as if Cornell will fail to win a single Ivy championship in any fall sport, men’s or women’s. And even Cornell women’s hockey just got swept at Harvard and Dartmouth. While the pathetic state of Cornell football gets most of the attention, the overall state of our athletic program is as poor as I can recall in the 40 years I’ve been following Big Red sports.
Certainly a far cry from the glory days of 2010 when we had multiple Ivy champs and a Sweet 16 hoops team. Seems Cornell athletics is overdue for a big shakeup.
Certainly a far cry from the glory days of 2010 when we had multiple Ivy champs and a Sweet 16 hoops team. Seems Cornell athletics is overdue for a big shakeup.
Re: State of Cornell Athletics
Posted by: blackwidow (---.sub-174-198-15.myvzw.com)
Date: October 30, 2021 06:18PM
scoop85
With men’s soccer losing 2-1 at Princeton, it seems as if Cornell will fail to win a single Ivy championship in any fall sport, men’s or women’s. And even Cornell women’s hockey just got swept at Harvard and Dartmouth. While the pathetic state of Cornell football gets most of the attention, the overall state of our athletic program is as poor as I can recall in the 40 years I’ve been following Big Red sports.
Certainly a far cry from the glory days of 2010 when we had multiple Ivy champs and a Sweet 16 hoops team. Seems Cornell athletics is overdue for a big shakeup.
Omg thank you so much for starting this thread. Im in so much pain
Re: State of Cornell Athletics
Posted by: Ken711 (---.clppva.fios.verizon.net)
Date: October 30, 2021 06:37PM
After enduring decades of losing in football (including a 44 game losing streak) Columbia finally brought in an outside consultant to examine the athletic department and make recommendations. That led to Columbia improving their athletic facilities (including an indoor practice facility which they now have), and the hiring of an accomplished football coach in Al Bagnoli. It maybe time for Cornell to consider the same.
Re: State of Cornell Athletics
Posted by: blackwidow (---.sub-174-198-15.myvzw.com)
Date: October 30, 2021 06:41PM
Ken711
After enduring decades of losing in football (including a 44 game losing streak) Columbia finally brought in an outside consultant to examine the athletic department and make recommendations. That led to Columbia improving their athletic facilities (including an indoor practice facility which they now have), and the hiring of an accomplished football coach in Al Bagnoli. It maybe time for Cornell to consider the same.
Or they could get rid of athletics altogether and focus more on academics!
Re: State of Cornell Athletics
Posted by: scoop85 (---.hvc.res.rr.com)
Date: October 30, 2021 06:44PM
blackwidow
Ken711
After enduring decades of losing in football (including a 44 game losing streak) Columbia finally brought in an outside consultant to examine the athletic department and make recommendations. That led to Columbia improving their athletic facilities (including an indoor practice facility which they now have), and the hiring of an accomplished football coach in Al Bagnoli. It maybe time for Cornell to consider the same.
Or they could get rid of athletics altogether and focus more on academics!
I’ve suspected Martha Pollock was trolling this forum!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2021 06:52PM by scoop85.
Re: State of Cornell Athletics
Posted by: Ken711 (---.clppva.fios.verizon.net)
Date: October 30, 2021 06:50PM
blackwidow
Ken711
After enduring decades of losing in football (including a 44 game losing streak) Columbia finally brought in an outside consultant to examine the athletic department and make recommendations. That led to Columbia improving their athletic facilities (including an indoor practice facility which they now have), and the hiring of an accomplished football coach in Al Bagnoli. It maybe time for Cornell to consider the same.
Or they could get rid of athletics altogether and focus more on academics!
You do realize the "Ivy League" was based on a common athletic conference goal. Chances of giving up athletics and dropping are zero.
Re: State of Cornell Athletics
Posted by: blackwidow (---.sub-174-198-15.myvzw.com)
Date: October 30, 2021 06:54PM
Ken711
blackwidow
Ken711
After enduring decades of losing in football (including a 44 game losing streak) Columbia finally brought in an outside consultant to examine the athletic department and make recommendations. That led to Columbia improving their athletic facilities (including an indoor practice facility which they now have), and the hiring of an accomplished football coach in Al Bagnoli. It maybe time for Cornell to consider the same.
Or they could get rid of athletics altogether and focus more on academics!
You do realize the "Ivy League" was based on a common athletic conference goal. Chances of giving up athletics and dropping are zero.
Good thing im a nobody :'( after so much suffering coming from me caring though, ive made it my lifelong mission to give it my best shot !
Re: State of Cornell Athletics
Posted by: CU2007 (---.sub-174-197-201.myvzw.com)
Date: October 30, 2021 09:01PM
Ken711
After enduring decades of losing in football (including a 44 game losing streak) Columbia finally brought in an outside consultant to examine the athletic department and make recommendations. That led to Columbia improving their athletic facilities (including an indoor practice facility which they now have), and the hiring of an accomplished football coach in Al Bagnoli. It maybe time for Cornell to consider the same.
Generally agree but I think the Ivy league’s ridiculous response to COVID last year screwed a bunch of our teams. Men’s hockey, women’s hockey, men’s lacrosse all heading towards championship level seasons and now all those teams seem to be rebuilding
Re: State of Cornell Athletics
Posted by: Weder (---.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
Date: October 31, 2021 09:08AM
With the hockey teams, at least, don't the rosters look fairly close to what they would have been this year anyway? I'm not aware of any recruiting losses. Obviously, not playing last season has consequences in terms of player development. (And according to Neutral Zone, the Cornell women have next year's No. 1 recruiting class in the country.)
Re: State of Cornell Athletics
Posted by: billhoward (---.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net)
Date: October 31, 2021 01:46PM
In terms of change: Andy Noel is in the home stretch of his Cornell career and some of the change others clamor for might await a change in leadership. He's been at Cornell since 1974 (except early 1990s), is a 1972 Franklin & Marshall grad (I keep forgetting he's not a Cornell grad), and is now getting into his early 70s.
The longest tenured Cornell AD, Bob Kane '34, was full-time AD 1944-1971, then he moved upstairs as dean of athletics for five years as he became more and more involved with the U.S. Olympic Committee. Others have said Kane was Cornell's best AD ever. That may well be, if you leave out the five years 1971-76 as dean of athletics, when basketball turned into a highly visible shitshow: players walking off the team, a replacement coach brought in to calm tensions who inflamed them, was fired mid-season, and the same coach getting his wish to make Sports Illustrated, only it was for a story headlined "Low In Cayuga's Waters."
Does DavidJeff Archer fit into Cornell's plans for Cornell athletics going forward, administration if not coaching? Interesting thought. If and when the AD's positions opens up, there will be significant pressure to consider women and people of color. I believe the ADs at Brown, Penn and Yale are female now.
The longest tenured Cornell AD, Bob Kane '34, was full-time AD 1944-1971, then he moved upstairs as dean of athletics for five years as he became more and more involved with the U.S. Olympic Committee. Others have said Kane was Cornell's best AD ever. That may well be, if you leave out the five years 1971-76 as dean of athletics, when basketball turned into a highly visible shitshow: players walking off the team, a replacement coach brought in to calm tensions who inflamed them, was fired mid-season, and the same coach getting his wish to make Sports Illustrated, only it was for a story headlined "Low In Cayuga's Waters."
Does David
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/31/2021 10:45PM by billhoward.
Re: State of Cornell Athletics
Posted by: Cop at Lynah (---.stny.res.rr.com)
Date: October 31, 2021 07:18PM
There will be more than pressure for an equity hire, it'll be a mandate
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/31/2021 10:29PM by Cop at Lynah.
Re: State of Cornell Athletics
Posted by: Ken711 (---.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
Date: October 31, 2021 07:24PM
billhoward
In terms of change: Andy Noel is in the home stretch of his Cornell career and some of the change others clamor for might await a change in leadership. He's been at Cornell since 1974 (except early 1990s), is a 1972 Franklin & Marshall grad (I keep forgetting he's not a Cornell grad), and is now getting into his early 70s.
The longest tenured Cornell AD, Bob Kane '34, was full-time AD 1944-1971, then he moved upstairs as dean of athletics for five years as he became more and more involved with the U.S. Olympic Committee. Others have said Kane was Cornell's best AD ever. That may well be, if you leave out the five years 1971-76 as dean of athletics, when basketball turned into a highly visible shitshow: players walking off the team, a replacement coach brought in to calm tensions who inflamed them, was fired mid-season, and the same coach getting his wish to make Sports Illustrated, only it was for a story headlined "Low In Cayuga's Waters."
Does Jeff Archer fit into Cornell's plans for Cornell athletics going forward, administration if not coaching? Interesting thought. If and when the AD's positions opens up, there will be significant pressure to consider women and people of color. I believe the ADs at Brown, Penn and Yale are female now.
Neither "Jeff" or David Archer have any business being considered in Cornell's future plans going forward, It's been a dismal failure after 8 straight losing seasons.
Re: State of Cornell Athletics
Posted by: billhoward (---.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net)
Date: October 31, 2021 10:43PM
Cornell athletics has from time to time found positions in the athletics department for coaches who stepped down. At least in the past.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/31/2021 10:58PM by billhoward.
Re: State of Cornell Athletics
Posted by: Ken711 (---.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
Date: November 01, 2021 09:12AM
billhoward
Cornell athletics has from time to time found positions in the athletics department for coaches who stepped down. At least in the past.
I'm good with that. Just move Archer to an administrative position if he wants to stay at Cornell and relieve him of coaching duties.
Re: State of Cornell Athletics
Posted by: rss77 (---.stny.res.rr.com)
Date: November 01, 2021 10:24PM
Let's see over the last 20 or so years: Pendergast, Knowles, Austin, Archer with only 1 winning season between them and 31 years when they last won a championship. I think a lot more than a "savior coach" is needed. I would like to see Cornell do a deep dive study on why they have such limited success in football.
Re: State of Cornell Athletics
Posted by: Ken711 (---.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
Date: November 02, 2021 09:18AM
rss77
Let's see over the last 20 or so years: Pendergast, Knowles, Austin, Archer with only 1 winning season between them and 31 years when they last won a championship. I think a lot more than a "savior coach" is needed. I would like to see Cornell do a deep dive study on why they have such limited success in football.
The exact reasoning that led Columbia to do the same in-depth study of their football program.
Re: State of Cornell Athletics
Posted by: ugarte (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: November 02, 2021 10:58AM
wow. crying in advance. impressive.Cop at Lynah
There will be more than pressure for an equity hire, it'll be a mandate
___________________________
quality tweets | bluesky (twitter 2) | ALAB Series podcast | Other podcasts and writing
quality tweets | bluesky (twitter 2) | ALAB Series podcast | Other podcasts and writing
Re: State of Cornell Athletics
Posted by: billhoward (---.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net)
Date: November 02, 2021 11:24AM
Columbia is the Ivy school where you'd most like to say: hopeless situationKen711
The exact reasoning that led Columbia to do the same in-depth study of their football program.rss77
Let's see over the last 20 or so years: Pendergast, Knowles, Austin, Archer with only 1 winning season between them and 31 years when they last won a championship. I think a lot more than a "savior coach" is needed. I would like to see Cornell do a deep dive study on why they have such limited success in football.
Cornell is the Ivy school where you'd be most likely to say: given the size of the student body, the breadth of the academic offerings, the fact that football facilities are actually part of the main campus, they're underachievers.
Re: State of Cornell Athletics
Posted by: Ken711 (---.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
Date: November 02, 2021 11:36AM
billhoward
Columbia is the Ivy school where you'd most like to say: hopeless situationKen711
The exact reasoning that led Columbia to do the same in-depth study of their football program.rss77
Let's see over the last 20 or so years: Pendergast, Knowles, Austin, Archer with only 1 winning season between them and 31 years when they last won a championship. I think a lot more than a "savior coach" is needed. I would like to see Cornell do a deep dive study on why they have such limited success in football.
Cornell is the Ivy school where you'd be most likely to say: given the size of the student body, the breadth of the academic offerings, the fact that football facilities are actually part of the main campus, they're underachievers.
Hopeless underachievers and perpetual losers under this coaching staff.
Re: State of Cornell Athletics
Posted by: upprdeck (38.77.26.---)
Date: November 02, 2021 12:57PM
rank the schools by how hard it is to get kids they want to recruit into the school to play a sport.
Re: State of Cornell Athletics
Posted by: marty (---.nycap.res.rr.com)
Date: November 02, 2021 04:04PM
upprdeck
rank the schools by how hard it is to get kids they want to recruit into the school to play a sport.
I think I'll pass.
On second thought I'll punt lest I fumble and everyone piles on.
Re: State of Cornell Athletics
Posted by: Swampy (---.ri.ri.cox.net)
Date: November 02, 2021 10:52PM
upprdeck
rank the schools by how hard it is to get kids they want to recruit into the school to play a sport.
A lot of this depends on the coach & the administration. If athletes had to meet the same standards as a school's overall selectivity, HYP would be perpetual doormats. Moreover, you would have low variability among sports with any given school.
But Cornell has perpetual excellence in men's hockey and lacrosse. And in recent years, women's hockey. Men's soccer is also quite respectable. The abysmal states of football and basketball has to do with coaches, alumni networks, recruiting (closely related to alumni networks), tradition, and how much the administration (esp. the AD) cares.
Re: State of Cornell Athletics
Posted by: Ken711 (---.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
Date: November 03, 2021 09:06AM
Swampy
upprdeck
rank the schools by how hard it is to get kids they want to recruit into the school to play a sport.
A lot of this depends on the coach & the administration. If athletes had to meet the same standards as a school's overall selectivity, HYP would be perpetual doormats. Moreover, you would have low variability among sports with any given school.
But Cornell has perpetual excellence in men's hockey and lacrosse. And in recent years, women's hockey. Men's soccer is also quite respectable. The abysmal states of football and basketball has to do with coaches, alumni networks, recruiting (closely related to alumni networks), tradition, and how much the administration (esp. the AD) cares.
Spot on Swampy!
Re: State of Cornell Athletics
Posted by: billhoward (---.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net)
Date: November 03, 2021 10:35AM
The mark of a good athletic program would be the overall winning percentage of all sports, and hopefully a relatively equivalent W-L ratio for men's and women's sports. That and the number of sports played, including ones that may not be NCAA sports: polo, sailing, maybe ultimate at the club level. The mark of a great program would be league championships and NCAA tournaments.Swampy
...But Cornell has perpetual excellence in men's hockey and lacrosse. And in recent years, women's hockey. Men's soccer is also quite respectable. The abysmal states of football and basketball has to do with coaches, alumni networks, recruiting (closely related to alumni networks), tradition, and how much the administration (esp. the AD) cares.
Actually, I'd say a good school would also have a robust intramural and club program, as well as good fit-rec centers in convenient locations. The fact that we could play pickup hockey at Lynah Rink or Cass Park (gad, that was cold) late at night made me love Cornell all the more.
Re: State of Cornell Athletics
Posted by: nshapiro (---.phlapa.fios.verizon.net)
Date: November 03, 2021 11:01AM
If fitness/rec centers are part of athletics than my general anger at Cornell for nickel and diming me to have an extra charge for my son to use these facilities was misplaced (although plenty of other instances of Cornell nickel/diming)billhoward
The mark of a good athletic program would be the overall winning percentage of all sports, and hopefully a relatively equivalent W-L ratio for men's and women's sports. That and the number of sports played, including ones that may not be NCAA sports: polo, sailing, maybe ultimate at the club level. The mark of a great program would be league championships and NCAA tournaments.Swampy
...But Cornell has perpetual excellence in men's hockey and lacrosse. And in recent years, women's hockey. Men's soccer is also quite respectable. The abysmal states of football and basketball has to do with coaches, alumni networks, recruiting (closely related to alumni networks), tradition, and how much the administration (esp. the AD) cares.
Actually, I'd say a good school would also have a robust intramural and club program, as well as good fit-rec centers in convenient locations. The fact that we could play pickup hockey at Lynah Rink or Cass Park (gad, that was cold) late at night made me love Cornell all the more.
Re: State of Cornell Athletics
Posted by: upprdeck (38.77.26.---)
Date: November 03, 2021 06:26PM
Swampy
upprdeck
rank the schools by how hard it is to get kids they want to recruit into the school to play a sport.
A lot of this depends on the coach & the administration. If athletes had to meet the same standards as a school's overall selectivity, HYP would be perpetual doormats. Moreover, you would have low variability among sports with any given school.
But Cornell has perpetual excellence in men's hockey and lacrosse. And in recent years, women's hockey. Men's soccer is also quite respectable. The abysmal states of football and basketball has to do with coaches, alumni networks, recruiting (closely related to alumni networks), tradition, and how much the administration (esp. the AD) cares.
Imagine if the coaches could get the kids they actually had high up on most of their recruiting lists..
Re: State of Cornell Athletics
Posted by: ugarte (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: November 03, 2021 08:39PM
cornell recruits best in the sports where a lot of the athletes are white people from small towns in cold climates because ithaca is a gloomy wasteland nine months out of the year and it's in the sticks all twelve
___________________________
quality tweets | bluesky (twitter 2) | ALAB Series podcast | Other podcasts and writing
quality tweets | bluesky (twitter 2) | ALAB Series podcast | Other podcasts and writing
Re: State of Cornell Athletics
Posted by: Ken711 (---.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
Date: November 03, 2021 09:16PM
ugarte
cornell recruits best in the sports where a lot of the athletes are white people from small towns in cold climates because ithaca is a gloomy wasteland nine months out of the year and it's in the sticks all twelve
Kind of like Dartmouth in Hanover.
Re: State of Cornell Athletics
Posted by: Weder (---.hsd1.va.comcast.net)
Date: November 05, 2021 02:26PM
I’m curious whether Cornell’s test-optional policy (in place through the Fall 2024 admissions cycle) will significantly change the recruited athlete profile. For the Cornell Class of 2025, 60% of enrolling students submitted an SAT or ACT score.
[admissions.cornell.edu]
[admissions.cornell.edu]
Re: State of Cornell Athletics
Posted by: George64 (---.rochester.res.rr.com)
Date: November 05, 2021 03:42PM
Weder
I’m curious whether Cornell’s test-optional policy (in place through the Fall 2024 admissions cycle) will significantly change the recruited athlete profile. For the Cornell Class of 2025, 60% of enrolling students submitted an SAT or ACT score.
[admissions.cornell.edu]
I just scanned the Cornell Class of 2025 admission and enrollment statistics [admissions.cornell.edu]. Really very impressive!
But, Housing and Dinning?
“Any Person . . . Any Study,” except, perhaps, spelling!
Re: State of Cornell Athletics
Posted by: upprdeck (38.77.26.---)
Date: November 05, 2021 09:48PM
Was at the dome last week and they had a whole list of things they were celebrating. One was the Colege of something or other after spelling it College in the line above..
Re: State of Cornell Athletics
Posted by: Trotsky (---.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
Date: November 07, 2021 04:49PM
I would be for this if they exempted hockey.blackwidow
Ken711
After enduring decades of losing in football (including a 44 game losing streak) Columbia finally brought in an outside consultant to examine the athletic department and make recommendations. That led to Columbia improving their athletic facilities (including an indoor practice facility which they now have), and the hiring of an accomplished football coach in Al Bagnoli. It maybe time for Cornell to consider the same.
Or they could get rid of athletics altogether and focus more on academics!
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