State of Cornell Athletics

With men’s soccer losing 2-1 at Princeton, it seems as if Cornell will fail to win a single Ivy championship in any fall sport, men’s or women’s. And even Cornell women’s hockey just got swept at Harvard and Dartmouth. While the pathetic state of Cornell football gets most of the attention, the overall state of our athletic program is as poor as I can recall in the 40 years I’ve been following Big Red sports.

Certainly a far cry from the glory days of 2010 when we had multiple Ivy champs and a Sweet 16 hoops team. Seems Cornell athletics is overdue for a big shakeup.

scoop85
With men’s soccer losing 2-1 at Princeton, it seems as if Cornell will fail to win a single Ivy championship in any fall sport, men’s or women’s. And even Cornell women’s hockey just got swept at Harvard and Dartmouth. While the pathetic state of Cornell football gets most of the attention, the overall state of our athletic program is as poor as I can recall in the 40 years I’ve been following Big Red sports.

Certainly a far cry from the glory days of 2010 when we had multiple Ivy champs and a Sweet 16 hoops team. Seems Cornell athletics is overdue for a big shakeup.

Omg thank you so much for starting this thread. Im in so much pain

After enduring decades of losing in football (including a 44 game losing streak) Columbia finally brought in an outside consultant to examine the athletic department and make recommendations. That led to Columbia improving their athletic facilities (including an indoor practice facility which they now have), and the hiring of an accomplished football coach in Al Bagnoli. It maybe time for Cornell to consider the same.

Ken711
After enduring decades of losing in football (including a 44 game losing streak) Columbia finally brought in an outside consultant to examine the athletic department and make recommendations. That led to Columbia improving their athletic facilities (including an indoor practice facility which they now have), and the hiring of an accomplished football coach in Al Bagnoli. It maybe time for Cornell to consider the same.

Or they could get rid of athletics altogether and focus more on academics!

blackwidow

Ken711
After enduring decades of losing in football (including a 44 game losing streak) Columbia finally brought in an outside consultant to examine the athletic department and make recommendations. That led to Columbia improving their athletic facilities (including an indoor practice facility which they now have), and the hiring of an accomplished football coach in Al Bagnoli. It maybe time for Cornell to consider the same.

Or they could get rid of athletics altogether and focus more on academics!

I’ve suspected Martha Pollock was trolling this forum!

blackwidow

Ken711
After enduring decades of losing in football (including a 44 game losing streak) Columbia finally brought in an outside consultant to examine the athletic department and make recommendations. That led to Columbia improving their athletic facilities (including an indoor practice facility which they now have), and the hiring of an accomplished football coach in Al Bagnoli. It maybe time for Cornell to consider the same.

Or they could get rid of athletics altogether and focus more on academics!

You do realize the "Ivy League" was based on a common athletic conference goal. Chances of giving up athletics and dropping are zero.

Ken711

blackwidow

Ken711
After enduring decades of losing in football (including a 44 game losing streak) Columbia finally brought in an outside consultant to examine the athletic department and make recommendations. That led to Columbia improving their athletic facilities (including an indoor practice facility which they now have), and the hiring of an accomplished football coach in Al Bagnoli. It maybe time for Cornell to consider the same.

Or they could get rid of athletics altogether and focus more on academics!

You do realize the "Ivy League" was based on a common athletic conference goal. Chances of giving up athletics and dropping are zero.

Good thing im a nobody :'( after so much suffering coming from me caring though, ive made it my lifelong mission to give it my best shot !

Ken711
After enduring decades of losing in football (including a 44 game losing streak) Columbia finally brought in an outside consultant to examine the athletic department and make recommendations. That led to Columbia improving their athletic facilities (including an indoor practice facility which they now have), and the hiring of an accomplished football coach in Al Bagnoli. It maybe time for Cornell to consider the same.

Generally agree but I think the Ivy league’s ridiculous response to COVID last year screwed a bunch of our teams. Men’s hockey, women’s hockey, men’s lacrosse all heading towards championship level seasons and now all those teams seem to be rebuilding

With the hockey teams, at least, don't the rosters look fairly close to what they would have been this year anyway? I'm not aware of any recruiting losses. Obviously, not playing last season has consequences in terms of player development. (And according to Neutral Zone, the Cornell women have next year's No. 1 recruiting class in the country.)

In terms of change: Andy Noel is in the home stretch of his Cornell career and some of the change others clamor for might await a change in leadership. He's been at Cornell since 1974 (except early 1990s), is a 1972 Franklin & Marshall grad (I keep forgetting he's not a Cornell grad), and is now getting into his early 70s.

The longest tenured Cornell AD, Bob Kane '34, was full-time AD 1944-1971, then he moved upstairs as dean of athletics for five years as he became more and more involved with the U.S. Olympic Committee. Others have said Kane was Cornell's best AD ever. That may well be, if you leave out the five years 1971-76 as dean of athletics, when basketball turned into a highly visible shitshow: players walking off the team, a replacement coach brought in to calm tensions who inflamed them, was fired mid-season, and the same coach getting his wish to make Sports Illustrated, only it was for a story headlined "Low In Cayuga's Waters."

Does David Jeff Archer fit into Cornell's plans for Cornell athletics going forward, administration if not coaching? Interesting thought. If and when the AD's positions opens up, there will be significant pressure to consider women and people of color. I believe the ADs at Brown, Penn and Yale are female now.

There will be more than pressure for an equity hire, it'll be a mandate

billhoward
In terms of change: Andy Noel is in the home stretch of his Cornell career and some of the change others clamor for might await a change in leadership. He's been at Cornell since 1974 (except early 1990s), is a 1972 Franklin & Marshall grad (I keep forgetting he's not a Cornell grad), and is now getting into his early 70s.

The longest tenured Cornell AD, Bob Kane '34, was full-time AD 1944-1971, then he moved upstairs as dean of athletics for five years as he became more and more involved with the U.S. Olympic Committee. Others have said Kane was Cornell's best AD ever. That may well be, if you leave out the five years 1971-76 as dean of athletics, when basketball turned into a highly visible shitshow: players walking off the team, a replacement coach brought in to calm tensions who inflamed them, was fired mid-season, and the same coach getting his wish to make Sports Illustrated, only it was for a story headlined "Low In Cayuga's Waters."

Does Jeff Archer fit into Cornell's plans for Cornell athletics going forward, administration if not coaching? Interesting thought. If and when the AD's positions opens up, there will be significant pressure to consider women and people of color. I believe the ADs at Brown, Penn and Yale are female now.

Neither "Jeff" or David Archer have any business being considered in Cornell's future plans going forward, It's been a dismal failure after 8 straight losing seasons.

Cornell athletics has from time to time found positions in the athletics department for coaches who stepped down. At least in the past.

billhoward
Cornell athletics has from time to time found positions in the athletics department for coaches who stepped down. At least in the past.

I'm good with that. Just move Archer to an administrative position if he wants to stay at Cornell and relieve him of coaching duties.

Let's see over the last 20 or so years: Pendergast, Knowles, Austin, Archer with only 1 winning season between them and 31 years when they last won a championship. I think a lot more than a "savior coach" is needed. I would like to see Cornell do a deep dive study on why they have such limited success in football.

rss77
Let's see over the last 20 or so years: Pendergast, Knowles, Austin, Archer with only 1 winning season between them and 31 years when they last won a championship. I think a lot more than a "savior coach" is needed. I would like to see Cornell do a deep dive study on why they have such limited success in football.

The exact reasoning that led Columbia to do the same in-depth study of their football program.

Cop at Lynah
There will be more than pressure for an equity hire, it'll be a mandate

wow. crying in advance. impressive.

Ken711

rss77
Let's see over the last 20 or so years: Pendergast, Knowles, Austin, Archer with only 1 winning season between them and 31 years when they last won a championship. I think a lot more than a "savior coach" is needed. I would like to see Cornell do a deep dive study on why they have such limited success in football.

The exact reasoning that led Columbia to do the same in-depth study of their football program.

Columbia is the Ivy school where you'd most like to say: hopeless situation
Cornell is the Ivy school where you'd be most likely to say: given the size of the student body, the breadth of the academic offerings, the fact that football facilities are actually part of the main campus, they're underachievers.

billhoward

Ken711

rss77
Let's see over the last 20 or so years: Pendergast, Knowles, Austin, Archer with only 1 winning season between them and 31 years when they last won a championship. I think a lot more than a "savior coach" is needed. I would like to see Cornell do a deep dive study on why they have such limited success in football.

The exact reasoning that led Columbia to do the same in-depth study of their football program.

Columbia is the Ivy school where you'd most like to say: hopeless situation
Cornell is the Ivy school where you'd be most likely to say: given the size of the student body, the breadth of the academic offerings, the fact that football facilities are actually part of the main campus, they're underachievers.

Hopeless underachievers and perpetual losers under this coaching staff.

rank the schools by how hard it is to get kids they want to recruit into the school to play a sport.

upprdeck
rank the schools by how hard it is to get kids they want to recruit into the school to play a sport.

I think I'll pass.

On second thought I'll punt lest I fumble and everyone piles on.

upprdeck
rank the schools by how hard it is to get kids they want to recruit into the school to play a sport.

A lot of this depends on the coach & the administration. If athletes had to meet the same standards as a school's overall selectivity, HYP would be perpetual doormats. Moreover, you would have low variability among sports with any given school.

But Cornell has perpetual excellence in men's hockey and lacrosse. And in recent years, women's hockey. Men's soccer is also quite respectable. The abysmal states of football and basketball has to do with coaches, alumni networks, recruiting (closely related to alumni networks), tradition, and how much the administration (esp. the AD) cares.

Swampy

upprdeck
rank the schools by how hard it is to get kids they want to recruit into the school to play a sport.

A lot of this depends on the coach & the administration. If athletes had to meet the same standards as a school's overall selectivity, HYP would be perpetual doormats. Moreover, you would have low variability among sports with any given school.

But Cornell has perpetual excellence in men's hockey and lacrosse. And in recent years, women's hockey. Men's soccer is also quite respectable. The abysmal states of football and basketball has to do with coaches, alumni networks, recruiting (closely related to alumni networks), tradition, and how much the administration (esp. the AD) cares.

Spot on Swampy!

Swampy
...But Cornell has perpetual excellence in men's hockey and lacrosse. And in recent years, women's hockey. Men's soccer is also quite respectable. The abysmal states of football and basketball has to do with coaches, alumni networks, recruiting (closely related to alumni networks), tradition, and how much the administration (esp. the AD) cares.

The mark of a good athletic program would be the overall winning percentage of all sports, and hopefully a relatively equivalent W-L ratio for men's and women's sports. That and the number of sports played, including ones that may not be NCAA sports: polo, sailing, maybe ultimate at the club level. The mark of a great program would be league championships and NCAA tournaments.
Actually, I'd say a good school would also have a robust intramural and club program, as well as good fit-rec centers in convenient locations. The fact that we could play pickup hockey at Lynah Rink or Cass Park (gad, that was cold) late at night made me love Cornell all the more.

billhoward

Swampy
...But Cornell has perpetual excellence in men's hockey and lacrosse. And in recent years, women's hockey. Men's soccer is also quite respectable. The abysmal states of football and basketball has to do with coaches, alumni networks, recruiting (closely related to alumni networks), tradition, and how much the administration (esp. the AD) cares.

The mark of a good athletic program would be the overall winning percentage of all sports, and hopefully a relatively equivalent W-L ratio for men's and women's sports. That and the number of sports played, including ones that may not be NCAA sports: polo, sailing, maybe ultimate at the club level. The mark of a great program would be league championships and NCAA tournaments.
Actually, I'd say a good school would also have a robust intramural and club program, as well as good fit-rec centers in convenient locations. The fact that we could play pickup hockey at Lynah Rink or Cass Park (gad, that was cold) late at night made me love Cornell all the more.

If fitness/rec centers are part of athletics than my general anger at Cornell for nickel and diming me to have an extra charge for my son to use these facilities was misplaced (although plenty of other instances of Cornell nickel/diming)

Swampy

upprdeck
rank the schools by how hard it is to get kids they want to recruit into the school to play a sport.

A lot of this depends on the coach & the administration. If athletes had to meet the same standards as a school's overall selectivity, HYP would be perpetual doormats. Moreover, you would have low variability among sports with any given school.

But Cornell has perpetual excellence in men's hockey and lacrosse. And in recent years, women's hockey. Men's soccer is also quite respectable. The abysmal states of football and basketball has to do with coaches, alumni networks, recruiting (closely related to alumni networks), tradition, and how much the administration (esp. the AD) cares.

Imagine if the coaches could get the kids they actually had high up on most of their recruiting lists..

cornell recruits best in the sports where a lot of the athletes are white people from small towns in cold climates because ithaca is a gloomy wasteland nine months out of the year and it's in the sticks all twelve

ugarte
cornell recruits best in the sports where a lot of the athletes are white people from small towns in cold climates because ithaca is a gloomy wasteland nine months out of the year and it's in the sticks all twelve

Kind of like Dartmouth in Hanover.

I’m curious whether Cornell’s test-optional policy (in place through the Fall 2024 admissions cycle) will significantly change the recruited athlete profile. For the Cornell Class of 2025, 60% of enrolling students submitted an SAT or ACT score.

[admissions.cornell.edu]

Weder
I’m curious whether Cornell’s test-optional policy (in place through the Fall 2024 admissions cycle) will significantly change the recruited athlete profile. For the Cornell Class of 2025, 60% of enrolling students submitted an SAT or ACT score.

[admissions.cornell.edu]

I just scanned the Cornell Class of 2025 admission and enrollment statistics [admissions.cornell.edu]. Really very impressive!

But, Housing and Dinning?

“Any Person . . . Any Study,” except, perhaps, spelling!

Was at the dome last week and they had a whole list of things they were celebrating. One was the Colege of something or other after spelling it College in the line above..

blackwidow

Ken711
After enduring decades of losing in football (including a 44 game losing streak) Columbia finally brought in an outside consultant to examine the athletic department and make recommendations. That led to Columbia improving their athletic facilities (including an indoor practice facility which they now have), and the hiring of an accomplished football coach in Al Bagnoli. It maybe time for Cornell to consider the same.

Or they could get rid of athletics altogether and focus more on academics!

I would be for this if they exempted hockey.