Throw in the towel?
Posted by Towerroad
Throw in the towel?
Posted by: Towerroad (---.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
Date: October 19, 2014 06:14PM
Should we just throw in the towel on Football? 9 winning seasons since 1980. Columbia does not play hockey or lax, Penn does not play hockey. Is football really worth the effort if we are not competitive?
Re: Throw in the towel?
Posted by: Trotsky (---.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
Date: October 19, 2014 06:41PM
Not yet. There's still probably a shitload of alumni $$$ tied to it. Give it another decade for our equivalents of Monty Burns to croak. By then youth football will probably be dead anyway because of the adverse health effects. Do the Ivies have boxing teams anymore?Towerroad
Should we just throw in the towel on Football? 9 winning seasons since 1980. Columbia does not play hockey or lax, Penn does not play hockey. Is football really worth the effort if we are not competitive?
Re: Throw in the towel?
Posted by: RichH (134.223.230.---)
Date: October 20, 2014 12:21PM
Not as long as Columbia exists. Three winning seasons in the last 50 years. Five since the founding of the league in 1956. In 24 out of the last 60 seasons (40%), they failed to win 2 games.
I can remember without researching three times where Cornell had an chance at a League Championship entering the final week.
Columbia plays on, so should we.
I can remember without researching three times where Cornell had an chance at a League Championship entering the final week.
Columbia plays on, so should we.
Re: Throw in the towel?
Posted by: Towerroad (---.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
Date: October 20, 2014 12:38PM
RichH
Not as long as Columbia exists. Three winning seasons in the last 50 years. Five since the founding of the league in 1956. In 24 out of the last 60 seasons (40%), they failed to win 2 games.
I can remember without researching three times where Cornell had an chance at a League Championship entering the final week.
Columbia plays on, so should we.
Just because Columbia makes bad decisions should we?
Re: Throw in the towel?
Posted by: Trotsky (---.dc.dc.cox.net)
Date: October 20, 2014 01:03PM
RichH
Not as long as Columbia exists. Three winning seasons in the last 50 years. Five since the founding of the league in 1956. In 24 out of the last 60 seasons (40%), they failed to win 2 games.
Never give up. Never surrender.
Re: Throw in the towel?
Posted by: ugarte (207.239.110.---)
Date: October 20, 2014 02:43PM
Losing is not a reason to stop. Holy crap, man.Towerroad
RichH
Not as long as Columbia exists. Three winning seasons in the last 50 years. Five since the founding of the league in 1956. In 24 out of the last 60 seasons (40%), they failed to win 2 games.
I can remember without researching three times where Cornell had an chance at a League Championship entering the final week.
Columbia plays on, so should we.
Just because Columbia makes bad decisions should we?
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Re: Throw in the towel?
Posted by: Towerroad (---.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
Date: October 20, 2014 03:03PM
It is not necessarily a reason to continue either. If it were a question a year or two or a few seasons that is one thing. But sometime you just have to say, "We are not good at this, lets take the precious resources we allocate to this activity and reallocate them." I don't know if football at Cornell is so profitable that it carries its own weight or not.ugarte
Losing is not a reason to stop. Holy crap, man.Towerroad
RichH
Not as long as Columbia exists. Three winning seasons in the last 50 years. Five since the founding of the league in 1956. In 24 out of the last 60 seasons (40%), they failed to win 2 games.
I can remember without researching three times where Cornell had an chance at a League Championship entering the final week.
Columbia plays on, so should we.
Just because Columbia makes bad decisions should we?
I am being a bit of a devils advocate here but I think it is a healthy topic. MIT, Cal Tech, U of Chicago don't have teams and they are all fine schools.
Re: Throw in the towel?
Posted by: RichH (134.223.230.---)
Date: October 20, 2014 03:13PM
Trotsky
RichH
Not as long as Columbia exists. Three winning seasons in the last 50 years. Five since the founding of the league in 1956. In 24 out of the last 60 seasons (40%), they failed to win 2 games.
Never give up. Never surrender.
Long may it wave.
Re: Throw in the towel?
Posted by: Roy 82 (128.18.14.---)
Date: October 20, 2014 04:07PM
Trotsky
Not yet. There's still probably a shitload of alumni $$$ tied to it. Give it another decade for our equivalents of Monty Burns to croak. By then youth football will probably be dead anyway because of the adverse health effects. Do the Ivies have boxing teams anymore?Towerroad
Should we just throw in the towel on Football? 9 winning seasons since 1980. Columbia does not play hockey or lax, Penn does not play hockey. Is football really worth the effort if we are not competitive?
I agree that football as we know it may be endangered as more and more data on the health effects comes in. Unfortunately, the brain health issue is also seriously affecting ice hockey. Perhaps ice hockey could more easily make adjustments without fundamentally altering the nature of the sport.
BTW, My 2 cents: Losing itself is no reason tothorw in the towel. Econmics and other priorities maybe. But football is iconic.
Re: Throw in the towel?
Posted by: KeithK (---.external.lmco.com)
Date: October 20, 2014 04:33PM
Especially so for college athletics, at least at schools that aren't masquerading as semi-pro teams. If the program is graduating its student athletes and there aren't significant off field issues then I see no reason that the win-loss record should be important in the fate of the program. And FWIW I have essentially no interest in Cornell football (precious litle for the NFL either these days).Roy 82
BTW, My 2 cents: Losing itself is no reason tothorw in the towel. Econmics and other priorities maybe. But football is iconic.
Re: Throw in the towel?
Posted by: Towerroad (---.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
Date: October 20, 2014 04:34PM
Roy 82
Trotsky
Not yet. There's still probably a shitload of alumni $$$ tied to it. Give it another decade for our equivalents of Monty Burns to croak. By then youth football will probably be dead anyway because of the adverse health effects. Do the Ivies have boxing teams anymore?Towerroad
Should we just throw in the towel on Football? 9 winning seasons since 1980. Columbia does not play hockey or lax, Penn does not play hockey. Is football really worth the effort if we are not competitive?
I agree that football as we know it may be endangered as more and more data on the health effects comes in. Unfortunately, the brain health issue is also seriously affecting ice hockey. Perhaps ice hockey could more easily make adjustments without fundamentally altering the nature of the sport.
BTW, My 2 cents: Losing itself is no reason tothorw in the towel. Econmics and other priorities maybe. But football is iconic.
The Freshman beanie used to be iconic as well.
Re: Throw in the towel?
Posted by: Chris '03 (38.104.240.---)
Date: October 20, 2014 04:47PM
Towerroad
Should we just throw in the towel on Football? 9 winning seasons since 1980. Columbia does not play hockey or lax, Penn does not play hockey. Is football really worth the effort if we are not competitive?
Cornell women's hockey winning seasons 1980-2009 (8):
80
81
86
89
90
91
96
98
I don't recall anyone clamoring to shut it down in 2005.
___________________________
"Mark Mazzoleni looks like a guy whose dog just died out there..."
"Mark Mazzoleni looks like a guy whose dog just died out there..."
Re: Throw in the towel?
Posted by: Kyle Rose (---.customer.alter.net)
Date: October 20, 2014 04:56PM
+1. This is the only point that really matters to a program like Cornell's.KeithK
Especially so for college athletics, at least at schools that aren't masquerading as semi-pro teams. If the program is graduating its student athletes and there aren't significant off field issues then I see no reason that the win-loss record should be important in the fate of the program.Roy 82
BTW, My 2 cents: Losing itself is no reason tothorw in the towel. Econmics and other priorities maybe. But football is iconic.
And I have zero interest in Ivy League football. I just happen to think that if the alumni and administration want to keep it going, and the students still have interest in playing, then they should play. If you or I don't want to pay it any attention, that's fine too.
Re: Throw in the towel?
Posted by: Towerroad (---.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
Date: October 20, 2014 05:04PM
Chris '03
Towerroad
Should we just throw in the towel on Football? 9 winning seasons since 1980. Columbia does not play hockey or lax, Penn does not play hockey. Is football really worth the effort if we are not competitive?
Cornell women's hockey winning seasons 1980-2009 (8):
80
81
86
89
90
91
96
98
I don't recall anyone clamoring to shut it down in 2005.
Title IX considerations would have weighed heavily. For another, football has not been to a Bowl (Frozen 4 equivalent) since the 30's.
I am not necessarily clamoring to shut football down. I go to the game every other year when Cornell is in Cambridge and enjoy myself throughly. The Band always wins. But I think this is a question that should be asked.
After all, Cornell decided that it was not interested in Nursing or Nuclear Reactors. Times change.
Re: Throw in the towel?
Posted by: mountainred (69.43.54.---)
Date: October 20, 2014 05:24PM
The Ivies started as a football conference and I think the Ivy Agreement specifically states that there must be round robin competition in football (and in as many other sports as possible). Dropping football probably means dropping out of the Ivy League, which is not going to happen.
Re: Throw in the towel?
Posted by: dbilmes (32.218.122.---)
Date: October 20, 2014 05:56PM
I wonder what Ed Marino has to say about this.
Re: Throw in the towel?
Posted by: billhoward (---.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
Date: October 20, 2014 06:19PM
Something about the spellcheck button perhaps, or not confusing him with the Tom and Bill Marinaro lacrosse family?dbilmes
I wonder what Ed Marino has to say about this.
Re: Throw in the towel?
Posted by: KeithK (---.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
Date: October 20, 2014 11:49PM
I think it's pretty unlikely that we would be kicked out of the Ivies if we dropped football. Even if the agreement says something to that effect agreements can be changed.mountainred
The Ivies started as a football conference and I think the Ivy Agreement specifically states that there must be round robin competition in football (and in as many other sports as possible). Dropping football probably means dropping out of the Ivy League, which is not going to happen.
Re: Throw in the towel?
Posted by: Towerroad (---.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
Date: October 21, 2014 11:23AM
I am not sure why Ed Marinaro's opinion should carry any more weight than anyone elses (his $ are a different matter). I am certain that most if not all the current and former players would object to this course of action but that does not necessarily mean it is a bad idea.dbilmes
I wonder what Ed Marino has to say about this.
Financial considerations are important, I don't know if football is a money maker or not. What is clear is that we are not very good at it.
Re: Throw in the towel?
Posted by: rss77 (---.twcny.res.rr.com)
Date: October 21, 2014 07:22PM
Yes Caltech does not have football but the University of Chicago and MIT both have varsity football.
Re: Throw in the towel?
Posted by: Trotsky (---.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
Date: October 21, 2014 07:45PM
MIT at least had about 50 years off.
Also: let's hear it for CalTech baseball!
Also: let's hear it for CalTech baseball!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/21/2014 07:46PM by Trotsky.
Re: Throw in the towel?
Posted by: Towerroad (---.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
Date: October 22, 2014 12:41PM
Ok you win, it looks like a conference we could be competitive inTowerroad
I am not sure why Ed Marinaro's opinion should carry any more weight than anyone elses (his $ are a different matter). I am certain that most if not all the current and former players would object to this course of action but that does not necessarily mean it is a bad idea.dbilmes
I wonder what Ed Marino has to say about this.
Financial considerations are important, I don't know if football is a money maker or not. What is clear is that we are not very good at it.
[www.newenglandfootballconference.com]
Re: Throw in the towel?
Posted by: Trotsky (---.dc.dc.cox.net)
Date: October 22, 2014 03:07PM
Towerroad
Ok you win, it looks like a conference we could be competitive in
[www.newenglandfootballconference.com]
They are in the ECAC...
Re: Throw in the towel?
Posted by: RichH (134.223.230.---)
Date: October 22, 2014 07:55PM
A colleague I knew from grad school was a catcher in his undergrad days for CalTech. He threw a party after that win in 2003, as it broke a similarly long losing streak.
Also, due to a self-reported violation, they had to "vacate" the losing streak. Smart, I guess? From [espn.go.com]
Caltech, like USC, Ohio State and Penn State, is on NCAA probation, believe it or not. The Beavers self-reported after violating one of the NCAA's myriad rules, this one stating that student-athletes have to take a full course load to be eligible.
Caltech students aren't officially taking a full course load until the end of the third week of every term. They are allowed to shop the tough classes before finalizing their curricula and many student-athletes chose academic prudence over rigid adherence to NCAA rules.
The baseball team had to vacate its 0-112 record during the period it "cheated."
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2014 07:59PM by RichH.
Re: Throw in the towel?
Posted by: scoop85 (---.hvc.res.rr.com)
Date: October 25, 2014 01:38PM
Cornell trails Brown 14-2 with 2:30 left in the half.
I have watched almost 35 years of mostly bad Cornell football. This is the most inept offensive football I've seen in all those years. The offensive line is hopeless
I have watched almost 35 years of mostly bad Cornell football. This is the most inept offensive football I've seen in all those years. The offensive line is hopeless
Re: Throw in the towel?
Posted by: CAS (---.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
Date: October 25, 2014 02:19PM
Don't understand why Cornell isn't competitive in football. Wasn't too long ago when we had reasonable success. Under Jim Hofher, from 1990-97, Cornell went 33-23 in Ivies, never finishing below 4th.
Re: Throw in the towel?
Posted by: CAS (---.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
Date: October 25, 2014 02:23PM
Don't understand why Cornell isn't competitive in football. Wasn't too long ago we had reasonable success. Under Jim Hofher, from 1990-97, Cornell went 33-23 in the Ivies, never finishing below 4th.
Re: Throw in the towel?
Posted by: Ken711 (---.dc.dc.cox.net)
Date: October 25, 2014 06:29PM
CAS
Don't understand why Cornell isn't competitive in football. Wasn't too long ago we had reasonable success. Under Jim Hofher, from 1990-97, Cornell went 33-23 in the Ivies, never finishing below 4th.
Lack of recruiting and coaching. With the former being the greatest issue the last 15 years. Remember the ill-fated Tim Pendergast era.
Re: Throw in the towel?
Posted by: Weder (---.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
Date: October 27, 2014 05:09PM
Are we at the point of inducting a second-place team into the athletics department hall of fame?
[frontrow.espn.go.com]
[frontrow.espn.go.com]
Re: Throw in the towel?
Posted by: Ken711 (---.dc.dc.cox.net)
Date: October 27, 2014 06:13PM
Might as well throw the towel in on the men's basketball team as well. Outside of the one Steve Donahue run, winning seasons are few and far between.
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