Seeded 7th -- Facing Loyola

So, we get a 7th seed and a home game against Loyola. Tough test, but certainly a winnable game.

The biggest result of today's loss is that, had we won, we'd be a 6th seed and projected to face MD in a second round game. The Terps are darned good, don't get me wrong; but now, if we're fortunate enough to beat Loyola, we'll almost certainly get SU in the quarters.

Looking wayyyy ahead, but a Cornell/SU and SBU/UVA double-header @ Stony Brook would be a lot of fun.

Jordan 04
Looking wayyyy ahead, but a Cornell/SU and SBU/UVA double-header @ Stony Brook would be a lot of fun.

That is looking way ahead but would be amazing to have a chance to get some revenge against Syracuse for these past two losses. You would think the lacrosse gods have to give us a break against them once in awhile.

But isnt the other game at Stony Brook the winners of (3) Maryland Hofstra and Notre Dame (6) Princeton


The next game would be in Stony Brook though right, because cornellbigred.com says it would be in Princeton?

phillysportsfan

But isnt the other game at Stony Brook the winners of (3) Maryland Hofstra and Notre Dame (6) Princeton

Princeton and Stony Brook are both bracketed to play the second round at home. Given the fact that lacrosse needs to make its own attendance, I would guess the rules are more like hockey (hosting school MUST play at home) than basketball (hosting school CANNOT play at home).

Here's the official bracket from ncaa.com:

[grfx.cstv.com]

scoop85
The biggest result of today's loss is that, had we won, we'd be a 6th seed and projected to face MD in a second round game.

I totally agree we got (arguably) a more favorable draw than had we won today. I'll change my tune from earlier when I was less than pleased with our finish. Loyola looked very weak in their game against JHU ... and having taken SU to the final shot I think we have reason for a solid feeling about our chances in this tourney.

Bring on the Greyhounds!

LGR!

phillysportsfan

That is looking way ahead but would be amazing to have a chance to get some revenge against Syracuse for these past two losses. You would think the lacrosse gods have to give us a break against them once in awhile.

After what has happened against Syracuse the last two times we have played them, and what happened against Princeton on Sunday, it appears the lacrosse gods are content to tantalize us, only to ultimately punish us at the last possible second.

scoop85
The biggest result of today's loss is that, had we won, we'd be a 6th seed and projected to face MD in a second round game.

I think we'd still have drawn Syracuse as a potential quarterfinal opponent. Princeton's win yesterday moved the Tigers ahead of Duke to #5 in RPI. That boosted Syracuse's quality win score (Princeton was now in the 1-5 band, not 6-10) and lowered Maryland's (Duke was now in the 6-10 RPI band not 1-5). This gave the committee the leeway to move Syracuse ahead of Maryland to the #2 seed.

The committee would have wanted Syracuse and Cornell playing at Stony Brook in the quarterfinals and Maryland playing at Princeton. They'd have achieved that regardless of who won the Ivy AQ game yesterday, because the #2 and #3 seeds would have been flipped had Cornell won.

Al DeFlorio

scoop85
The biggest result of today's loss is that, had we won, we'd be a 6th seed and projected to face MD in a second round game.

I think we'd still have drawn Syracuse as a potential quarterfinal opponent. Princeton's win yesterday moved the Tigers ahead of Duke to #5 in RPI. That boosted Syracuse's quality win score (Princeton was now in the 1-5 band, not 6-10) and lowered Maryland's (Duke was now in the 6-10 RPI band not 1-5). This gave the committee the leeway to move Syracuse ahead of Maryland to the #2 seed.

The committee would have wanted Syracuse and Cornell playing at Stony Brook in the quarterfinals and Maryland playing at Princeton. They'd have achieved that regardless of who won the Ivy AQ game yesterday, because the #2 and #3 seeds would have been flipped had Cornell won.

That makes sense. So, yesterday's result had little practical impact regarding the NCAA's -- but it still sticks in my craw!

ben03

scoop85
The biggest result of today's loss is that, had we won, we'd be a 6th seed and projected to face MD in a second round game.

I totally agree we got (arguably) a more favorable draw than had we won today. I'll change my tune from earlier when I was less than pleased with our finish. Loyola looked very weak in their game against JHU ... and having taken SU to the final shot I think we have reason for a solid feeling about our chances in this tourney.

Bring on the Greyhounds!

LGR!

SU has improved tremendously over the season. They've been able to put middies and attack together, something I haven't seen from us. We don't seem to be able to put a whole game together, especially second half. I don't see the same kind of improvement with us as with SU. I don't see us having a great chance against them, unless they look past us. I doubt that, since we were so close to beating them.

But then again, I don't know what you mean by "solid feeling".

Jim Hyla

ben03

scoop85
The biggest result of today's loss is that, had we won, we'd be a 6th seed and projected to face MD in a second round game.

I totally agree we got (arguably) a more favorable draw than had we won today. I'll change my tune from earlier when I was less than pleased with our finish. Loyola looked very weak in their game against JHU ... and having taken SU to the final shot I think we have reason for a solid feeling about our chances in this tourney.

Bring on the Greyhounds!

LGR!

SU has improved tremendously over the season. They've been able to put middies and attack together, something I haven't seen from us. We don't seem to be able to put a whole game together, especially second half. I don't see the same kind of improvement with us as with SU. I don't see us having a great chance against them, unless they look past us. I doubt that, since we were so close to beating them.

But then again, I don't know what you mean by "solid feeling".

our failure to put together a complete 60:00 minute game is our Achilles heel. what i meant by "solid" was that we have competed with and taken SU to the brink. this can play both ways ... (1) they will not let it get there again < or > (2) we will make sure it gets there again. either way, we cannot look past past Loyola and they can't look past us ... but if we meet them again it's not likely to be a blowout a la UVA. i think it will take a complete 60:00 minutes (not a second less) if we're going to win.

at least we know we can get to 59:59.

LGR!

ben03
at least we know we can get to 59:59.

Right. Plus, I'm encouraged by the domination of Brown for three quarters and Princeton for a half. This team is now showing that when the middies and attack play together, they really can do some stuff. The problem seems to be that, with a lead, the middies sit back and let the attack--meaning, to a large degree, Rob Pannell--do all the initiation, and that results in leads disappearing. It may be that this team simply cannot play a full 60 minutes, as described by Jim. But I think we've also seen that they are capable of a very high level of play when they put their minds to it--a level that can make them dangerous against almost anyone.

Al DeFlorio

ben03
at least we know we can get to 59:59.

Right. Plus, I'm encouraged by the domination of Brown for three quarters and Princeton for a half. This team is now showing that when the middies and attack play together, they really can do some stuff. The problem seems to be that, with a lead, the middies sit back and let the attack--meaning, to a large degree, Rob Pannell--do all the initiation, and that results in leads disappearing. It may be that this team simply cannot play a full 60 minutes, as described by Jim. But I think we've also seen that they are capable of a very high level of play when they put their minds to it--a level that can make them dangerous against almost anyone.

Al, I have the same impression. The past two games we've had long stretches where we've been able to play at an extremely high level -- higher than any part of our performance in this season's Syracuse game. In both the Brown and Princeton games, their goal tending was superb; while we were able to overcome that against Brown, Princeton obviously was a different result.

That being said, we will be tough for anybody we play -- we just have to play that "complete game." But I am excited about our skill level and the way we hustle.

One thing no one has mentioned: While Fiore played decently yesterday, he hardly ever makes a "clean" save with his stick that allows him to retain the ball; instead, he relies on his body to stop the ball (ouch!), with no rebound control. In the second half it seemed Princeton had numerous 2nd and 3rd possessions that drained the defense and kept the ball away from our offense. Fioroto, on the other hand, seemed to make his stops with his stick, and we had very few second-chance opportunities.

It looked to me like we had a change in strategy after the half against Princeton and I suspect the same thing happened last year against SU. It looks we had a big lead and tried to slow down the tempo of the game to use the clock. That worked last year against Princeton but that was a very different team.

From my perspective you just can't do that against high quality teams especially teams as dangerous as SU eventually they will find a weakness and strip the ball. Relentless scoring pressure coupled with solid D is the only way to win against first ranked teams.

I was really impressed with the ground ball game against the Tigers.

Al DeFlorio

ben03
at least we know we can get to 59:59.

Right. Plus, I'm encouraged by the domination of Brown for three quarters and Princeton for a half. This team is now showing that when the middies and attack play together, they really can do some stuff. The problem seems to be that, with a lead, the middies sit back and let the attack--meaning, to a large degree, Rob Pannell--do all the initiation, and that results in leads disappearing. It may be that this team simply cannot play a full 60 minutes, as described by Jim. But I think we've also seen that they are capable of a very high level of play when they put their minds to it--a level that can make them dangerous against almost anyone.

I agree totally. However, as the season has gone on, SU has shown that they can, and do, put their middies with their attack. That was a big question when the season started, and they've solved it. Until we show the same I'm not optimistic. It's possible for us to win, but I do think we have a chance of being blown out by SU as well.

Jim Hyla

Al DeFlorio

ben03
at least we know we can get to 59:59.

Right. Plus, I'm encouraged by the domination of Brown for three quarters and Princeton for a half. This team is now showing that when the middies and attack play together, they really can do some stuff. The problem seems to be that, with a lead, the middies sit back and let the attack--meaning, to a large degree, Rob Pannell--do all the initiation, and that results in leads disappearing. It may be that this team simply cannot play a full 60 minutes, as described by Jim. But I think we've also seen that they are capable of a very high level of play when they put their minds to it--a level that can make them dangerous against almost anyone.

I agree totally. However, as the season has gone on, SU has shown that they can, and do, put their middies with their attack. That was a big question when the season started, and they've solved it. Until we show the same I'm not optimistic. It's possible for us to win, but I do think we have a chance of being blown out by SU as well.

I agree 100% that they link the Mids and Attack as well as anyone in the country. To me, the most impressive thing about this year's SU squad (having watched them from the time i was 5, so 25 years) is not the offense but their defense. Back in the Simmons era ... a win was a win as long you had one goal more than they did. He didn't care if the score was 29-28. They always had the goal scorers and some great take away guys and stonewall goalies < but > never really never played solid team-D. This SU team has shown the ability to play shutdown D. If Galloway is seeing the ball and playing lights out it'll be a tough day for any opposing team.

All that having been said, they have looked beatable (see Hobart, JHU and Us) ... we have a shot but have to get past Loyola first.

Towerroad
It looked to me like we had a change in strategy after the half against Princeton and I suspect the same thing happened last year against SU. It looks we had a big lead and tried to slow down the tempo of the game to use the clock. That worked last year against Princeton but that was a very different team.

From my perspective you just can't do that against high quality teams especially teams as dangerous as SU eventually they will find a weakness and strip the ball. Relentless scoring pressure coupled with solid D is the only way to win against first ranked teams.

I was really impressed with the ground ball game against the Tigers.

I also didn't like how easily Princeton seemed to beat us one-on-one. For the winning goal it seemed predictable that McBride would try to beat his man, and he did. Everyone else on Princeton seemed to clear out, but the defender (who?) neither had help nor was able to handle McBride by himself. (We used to run the same play on a youth lacrosse team I coached. The play wasn't rocket science.)

Arggh. ESPNU kicks off Saturday's round of NCAA lacrosse games at 10am with a re-run of last year's championship game.

Al DeFlorio
Arggh. ESPNU kicks off Saturday's round of NCAA lacrosse games at 10am with a re-run of last year's championship game.

Maybe it will end differently this time. Like waking up from a bad dream....

This is the general lax tournament thread, right? Cool.

I am disappointed that 7-7 Hopkins made the tournament but I still want them to beat Duke.

ugarte
This is the general lax tournament thread, right? Cool.

I am disappointed that 7-7 Hopkins made the tournament but I still want them to beat Duke.

For lax do you have to have at least a 0.500 record to be considered regardless of your SOS?

Who did JHU knock out? I imagine that team must be fuming and looking to schedule games only against the ACC and Syracuse next year.

Rita

ugarte
This is the general lax tournament thread, right? Cool.

I am disappointed that 7-7 Hopkins made the tournament but I still want them to beat Duke.

For lax do you have to have at least a 0.500 record to be considered regardless of your SOS?

Who did JHU knock out? I imagine that team must be fuming and looking to schedule games only against the ACC and Syracuse next year.

Yes, .500 to be considered.

Apparently the last team in was Hofstra, not Hopkins, or maybe even Notre Dame, who drew #6 Princeton while Hopkins and Hofstra got #5 and #3, respectively.. First team out was Georgetown: 9th in RPI, 14th in strength of schedule, 13th in quality wins. 7-6 Notre Dame is the most controversial selection: 18th in RPI, 13th in strength of schedule, 24th in quality wins. The Irish did beat Duke at Duke.

Al DeFlorio

Rita

ugarte
This is the general lax tournament thread, right? Cool.

I am disappointed that 7-7 Hopkins made the tournament but I still want them to beat Duke.

For lax do you have to have at least a 0.500 record to be considered regardless of your SOS?

Who did JHU knock out? I imagine that team must be fuming and looking to schedule games only against the ACC and Syracuse next year.

Yes, .500 to be considered.

Apparently the last team in was Hofstra, not Hopkins, or maybe even Notre Dame, who drew #6 Princeton while Hopkins and Hofstra got #5 and #3, respectively.. First team out was Georgetown: 9th in RPI, 14th in strength of schedule, 13th in quality wins. 7-6 Notre Dame is the most controversial selection: 18th in RPI, 13th in strength of schedule, 24th in quality wins. The Irish did beat Duke at Duke.

Notre Dame was definitely the spoiler at the expense of G'town. It happens almost yearly that the selection committee loves teams who play hard schedules and don't win those games, JHU was (2-6) v. ranked teams. Win's over Duke, Loyola and Denver were huge for the Irish. Many will argue a .500 JHU squad is better than a 9-5 G'town team ... guess we'll never know.

That errant Pannell-to-Hurley pass with 30 seconds left in OT might shorten our season by one game. (That and other things such as not maintaining a multi-goal lead, again, but the pass near the Princeton goal was our last blown chance to win.) If that flipped Princeton and Cornell's placements (and if the high seeds all win on the first weekend) then we wind up with an extremely difficult quarterfinal game vs. #2 Syracuse instead of a tough but possibly winnable game vs. #3 Maryland. Virgninia-Syracuse seem to be a cut above the rest this year so you want to avoid them as long as possible. Even if this isn't our year to win it all - hey, is there ever going to be one? let's hope - it would have been nice at having a shot at getting to Baltimore and the final four. Still, this hasn't been a terrible season giving how many people we lost.

billhoward
That errant Pannell-to-Hurley pass with 30 seconds left in OT might shorten our season by one game. (That and other things such as not maintaining a multi-goal lead, again, but the pass near the Princeton goal was our last blown chance to win.) If that flipped Princeton and Cornell's placements (and if the high seeds all win on the first weekend) then we wind up with an extremely difficult quarterfinal game vs. #2 Syracuse instead of a tough but possibly winnable game vs. #3 Maryland.

Bill, I don't think it would have changed the match-ups had Cornell beaten Princeton. Princeton went from RPI #6 to #5 by winning, giving Syracuse more quality win points which gave the committee the leeway to move them to the second seed above Maryland, even though Maryland had higher RPI and much higher strength of schedule (1 vs. Syracuse's 7). So, if Cornell had won, Maryland would have been the #2 seed and Syracuse #3, and we still would be slotted to play the Orange at Stony Brook--assuming both teams win this weekend. The committee would have wanted Syracuse and Cornell at Stony Brook--again, assuming both win--so they'd have found a way to match us up with Syracuse, and the RPI/SOS/quality wins gods arranged things such that whoever won the Cornell-Princeton, the match-ups could legitimately be arranged Princeton-Maryland and Cornell-Syracuse.

Al DeFlorio

billhoward
That errant Pannell-to-Hurley pass with 30 seconds left in OT might shorten our season by one game. (That and other things such as not maintaining a multi-goal lead, again, but the pass near the Princeton goal was our last blown chance to win.) If that flipped Princeton and Cornell's placements (and if the high seeds all win on the first weekend) then we wind up with an extremely difficult quarterfinal game vs. #2 Syracuse instead of a tough but possibly winnable game vs. #3 Maryland.

Bill, I don't think it would have changed the match-ups had Cornell beaten Princeton. Princeton went from RPI #6 to #5 by winning, giving Syracuse more quality win points which gave the committee the leeway to move them to the second seed above Maryland, even though Maryland had higher RPI and much higher strength of schedule (1 vs. Syracuse's 7). So, if Cornell had won, Maryland would have been the #2 seed and Syracuse #3, and we still would be slotted to play the Orange at Stony Brook--assuming both teams win this weekend. The committee would have wanted Syracuse and Cornell at Stony Brook--again, assuming both win--so they'd have found a way to match us up with Syracuse, and the RPI/SOS/quality wins gods arranged things such that whoever won the Cornell-Princeton, the match-ups could legitimately be arranged Princeton-Maryland and Cornell-Syracuse.

this is the key ... Al you hit the nail on the head

A couple of articles from the Syracuse Post-Standard. The first on Canadians in NCAA. Cornell connection about halfway through.

The second on Cornell's need to win at the X.

Finally an unrelated Alec Baldwin on Letterman discussion about why his mother won't leave CNY, because of Wegmans.

After 3: Duke 16, Hopkins 4.

But yeah, Hopkins deserved to make the tournament.

Well they actually defend the "Pannell play" so he dishes it off and gets an assist instead. Up 2-0 about 6mins in.

4-2 Cornell at the end of one

8-2 halftime

How the hell did a really obvious loyola offsides turn in to an offsides penalty on cornell? 9-4 late 3rd quarter

Edit: Loyola on a 3 goal run to get back into the game, 9-5

Uhh...

If games ended after the first half...

Guess we're trying to blow it in the first round this year instead of waiting for the last round?

Don't hint...What's going on for those of us without ESPNU?

Is it 9-9 yet?

5 unanswered for Loyola (in about 7 minutes). 9-7 Cornell.

Turning the ball over twice after clearing started the slide. Tambroni talked about this in an Ithaca Journal article this past week. Between that and losing a string of face-offs, another big lead is blown. This team can play so well and then just seems to lose poise. They're young, but it's still very strange.

That's the problem - "Jack" Tambroni is coaching us!

9-7, end of 3.

Redscore
That's the problem - "Jack" Tambroni is coaching us!

Oh no, not the evil twin!

Jeff Hopkins '82
Don't hint...What's going on for those of us without ESPNU?

One of Loyola's goals (the 6th I think) was a real fluke also, the CU defender checked the ball out of the attacker's stick and it floated right over Fiore's shoulder into the net.

Up by 1. Less than 2 minutes. Where have we seen this before.

Jordan 04
Up by 1. Less than 2 minutes. Where have we seen this before.

Too many times.

That's the play that Tambroni drew up during the TO?

Loyola ball. Down 1. 1:22 to play.

And Loyola has the ball with 1:22 left. I don't want to watch.

Lost the ball, can't take it anymore!

Another f'in turnover.

I'm watching something much more pleasant. Bruins just went up 3-0.

Yes, I'm a Flyers fan. And I know the ending

And we get the ball back and then throw it out of bounds on the clear. I can't take this!

And they tie it

Unbelievable. And there's no reason to believe OT will be different the way faceoffs have been going the last 30 mins.

Lyola wins the faceoff, looked like a false start on them to me.

Jacob '06
Lyola wins the faceoff, looked like a false start on them to me.

I was going to say the same thing.

Josh '99

Jacob '06
Lyola wins the faceoff, looked like a false start on them to me.

I was going to say the same thing.

+2

We've looked indecisive on offense for the whole second half, even Pannell and Hurley.

end of first ot

After a really awful open shot given up on a pick, they defended that last posession pretty well. I hope we can actually win a faceoff here to start 2OT

Did he jump that faceoff too? Not as much as the first one, but still.

They jumped another faceoff. Another no-call.

Josh '99
Did he jump that faceoff too? Not as much as the first one, but still.

Looked like it a little bit. That is the problem with the latest iteration of the faceoff regulations. Guys can pretty much jump right away after the set signal, and its just a matter of how frequently you can get away with the false start.

Fiore's been saving our bacon since the 4th. Have to capitalize eventually.

Yay, another Syracuse look-back.

Do they have to show highlights of the Syracuse game AGAIN?

Damn, their safety sieve has been impressive.

Great work by Lang to run through the check after Fiore's last save, too bad the offense couldn't convert.

BILLY MAYS COMING TO YOU FROM BEYOND THE GRAVE!

Can we win this faceoff? What have we lost, like 12 straight?

Jacob '06
Can we win this faceoff? What have we lost, like 12 straight?

Probably not.

Well the procdure call actually gave it to us. Please score here.

Man, the offense has been AWFUL since halftime.

A nice play to get Hurley open, but why do you set up a play to have no backup?

Awful call.

PHEWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!

And it takes a long stick scoring to end it. Good guys win after all.

SCORE!!!!!

Jacob '06
And it takes a long stick scoring to end it. Good guys win after all.

One of those "fuck this, I'm doing it myself" kind of plays.

Thank God. Now I can sit back and watch the third period of last nights game in joyful peace.

Offense still didn't do it - took a defenseman!
Groundhog day, until next week then.

That was perfect - a very well executed plan to make Syracuse come into next week's game way overconfident...

Robb
That was perfect - a very well executed plan to make Syracuse come into next week's game way overconfident...

I was actually thinking along opposite lines when we were dominating -- I figured we were making next week's opponent take notice. Not sure what to think now, other than frustrated that the team put me through that last hour!

Even when we were dominating, we weren't playing great. They were okay, but Loyola was turning it over, taking bad shots, and mostly giving us the opportunities. I was honestly thinking what a big drop off there was from the Princeton/Syracuse/UVa tier. Then they stopped playing poorly and we saw what happened.

Josh '99
BILLY MAYS COMING TO YOU FROM BEYOND THE GRAVE!

Appropriate during a Cornell game the seemingly immortal Mays was peddling something called the "Amazing Auger."

Al DeFlorio

Josh '99
BILLY MAYS COMING TO YOU FROM BEYOND THE GRAVE!

Appropriate during a Cornell game the seemingly immortal Mays was peddling something called the "Amazing Auger."

OH-ZHAY!