CU @ Duke lax

HUGE game this weekend. Cornell sits at number 3 in the polls (tied with ND) while the Dukes rest at number 8. They've won their last four including a 12-8 win @ UNC this past Saturday.

We need to win this because we need to go at least 2-2 in our four "big" games (UVA, Duke, Cuse, PU) and I don't really like our chances @ Cuse. So we need to take care of business in Durham and beat PU when they come our way. The good news is that our seniors have already played down there twice and won both times. If we can get some decent goaltending I think we can pull it off.

Except the game is Tuesday [tomorrow] at 7 pm, not this weekend.

That's right my bad. But....the game will still be huge. Yale is this weekend. THAT game should be a blow out. Would be nice to double dip against them on the same day. (lax and hockey)

Win or lose, I hope this is the last trip to Durham until Duke is willing to return the favor and comes to Ithaca. The Cornell program has reestablished itself in the top echelon of lacrosse and I'd rather see them play another team, even if not quite the SOS boon that Duke is, that will agree to alternate locations than to continue to cater to Duke's hubris.

Like Germ said, if we get decent goaltending, we'll win this. I'm curious to see what Tambroni does with Myers apparently on his way back to game-form. Duke doesn't have the personnel Virginia does, but are still very formidable (as their win vs. UNC showed). That being said, I think we'll be too much to handle, with our midfield as well as the new found strength that is our attack.

It's definitely a big game for us, and I hope that we can get some support in two key areas:

1. Our goaler needs to have a solid day.
2. We need to avoid the type of extendo-scoring-drought crisis that has plagued us in certain games.

I believe that the Dukes' goaler is saving at a 46% clip--not particularly impressive. We need to pepper him with good shots early and try to establish our offense in the first half.

Despite graduating all those big-name players, Duke remains a very strong team, and they are a much different team now than in the loss to the Harvs earlier.

Anyone getting the video on all access to work?

I don't have it yet either.

Audio on REDcast is working. Nice that Duke plays a "bitches and hoes" hip hop track after their goals. That should improve town/gown relations with the Durham community...

nope

Sent them an email but when I did it at the 2nd half of the last game when the feed dropped they emailed me back 4 hours after the game was over, so I'm not holding my breath.

EDIT: Its up no with pretty horrible pixelated picture quality.

Up CU 3-2

4-2 with 3 to go in the first.

Nice to see Seibald asserting himself.

Pretty funny this boneheaded announcer saying the 2007 Cornell team was "defensive-minded."

4-2 end of first quarter. If you are sitting at your computer but not able to [or interested in] paying for ACC select horrendous video, checkout laxpower.com "Live Action Game Reports" where someone is likely to be doing an update: [www.laxpower.com]

Gotta start winning faceoffs.

Shades of Buffalo. A face-mask save.

Harer is looking a lot better than his last couple of games.

You could see that Moyer penalty coming.

Here's hoping that our goalie situation is solved. It sure looks like it tonight.

Duke is being very deliberate with the ball, almost like they fear turnovers or perhaps reacting to Harer's uncharacteristic hotness by being too picky with their shots. If I was Danowski I'd let those dogs run in the second half and put a lot more shots on Harer.

I think Pannell can beat his guy to the post, defender seems very conscious of the inside roll back. Also Duke's defensive midsare having trouble covering our midfield, especially when we invert.

We have a good shot here, maybe even a dominating score if we can keep Quinzani off the board.

Interesting, Tim, that Moyer's marking Crotty, not Quinzani. I'm also worried about Duke's opening things up in the second half.

I think Crotty's more mobile and is the feeder. Quinzani is kinda the finisher who hangs around the crease. Moyer's gotta control that stick.

Nice shot. Couldn't believe we didn't get the stall call a couple times there. Possession is a good thing.

Can people mention the score more often?

7-4 with 6:06 left in the third.

7-4 Cornell, 6:06 to go in 3rd

7-4 CU

Duke wins the FO; we need to hold things steady and prevent a Duke run.

We need to stop giving away possession.

Pannel had Glynn to the goalie's right on that turnover and didn't get him the ball. Hope we don't wind up looking back at that play...

I'm listening to the game; it sounds like Harer is a completely different goalie tonight so far.

scoop85
I'm listening to the game; it sounds like Harer is a completely different goalie tonight so far.

Yeah, hes made a lot of saves in the game. OTOH, several of the shots have been very weak, and Duke doesn't seem to have gotten the memo to go low on him. I won't complain about him making saves though.

Would be huge to score on this man-up to end the 3rd.

We're up by 3 despite looking stagnant on offense for almost two quarters.

Don't forget - in lacrosse they count shots even when wide of goal, so save numbers have more meaning than shot numbers.

Harer has at least 3 kick saves -- prob why they aren't going low

Seibald limping.

Yeah, I forgot about the couple of kick saves in the first, probably neglected them b/c of video issues. Hurley has an amazing ability to get the ball out of his stick as soon as he gets it and manages to get it where the goalie isn't. 8-4

Opportunity to put this one away now.

Who were they showing hurt on the bench? I couldn't quite see the number.

10-4 with 3:17 left. Cornell has had the ball for most of the 4th quarter.

Jacob '06
Who were they showing hurt on the bench? I couldn't quite see the number.

Dunno. I was afraid it was Seibald, but, thankfully, not.

Non-releasable 1:00 penalty on Moyer and quick Duke score. Now 10-5. Aggravating time for a penalty.

What could Moyer have done to draw an unsportsmanlike penalty? He was at least 40 yards away...

TimV
What could Moyer have done to draw an unsportsmanlike penalty? He was at least 40 yards away...

Taunt?

Did Redcast have any idea about Moyer's penalty?

TimV
Did Redcast have any idea about Moyer's penalty?

No they didn't speculate why. Now Duke with a second goal on the man-up.

10-6 CU with 2:14 to play. Duke wins the FO.

Stay tough here.

We are incredibly sloppy handling the ball.

10-6 final.

Al DeFlorio
We are incredibly sloppy handling the ball.

Al, you get as much joy out of these games as I do -- imagine if we really weren't any good

Other than Moyer's apparent brain fart, awesome game for the Red!

OK, anybody know of anything I should watch before I cancel my subscription to ACC Select?

There's a link for the postgame press conference.

anyone know what is going on with the swami's site? i can't skip the intro and when the intro ends, nothing happens.

Though this is not a Duke team equal to those of recent years, this was a nonetheless a statement game for the Red. If Harer can bottle his play from tonight and carry it through the rest of the season, we can see a lot of good coming from this team.

ugarte
anyone know what is going on with the swami's site? i can't skip the intro and when the intro ends, nothing happens.

Swami's made a major improvement?

ugarte
anyone know what is going on with the swami's site? i can't skip the intro and when the intro ends, nothing happens.

Agreed. Luckily I remembered the format of the URLs. Here's this week's:
[laxswami.com]
(the 09 is the year, and the 04 is the week number, so just increment the last number each week)

ugarte, what browser are you using? Apparently it works in IE (at least some versions), but not Firefox or Safari as best I can see.

Al DeFlorio

Jacob '06
Who were they showing hurt on the bench? I couldn't quite see the number.

Dunno. I was afraid it was Seibald, but, thankfully, not.

That was Feely - defenseman.

FarEastLax
It's definitely a big game for us, and I hope that we can get some support in two key areas:

1. Our goaler needs to have a solid day.

I'd say a 17-save performance qualifies.

2. We need to avoid the type of extendo-scoring-drought crisis that has plagued us in certain games.

Eh. Whatever works. 10 goals, 5 from Hurley, 3 from Seibald, and 2 from Glynn. Big win. Aren't we now 3-0 down there in the last 4 years?

Nighty night Duke.

Ok..seriously..we're 3-0 in our last three at Durham so memo to Tambroni: "Please stop scheduling Duke unless they come to our crib. It's time they realized that we own them down there and it's now their turn to schlep it up our way."

What a great win. I think this will give us a lot of confidence moving forward.

Memo to Harer: "I take back everything I said about you after the UVA game. Keep it up the good work."

From what I've read here and elsewhere, it seems most of Duke's shots were pretty weak (outside shots, not much up close) which could explain Harer's saves total. That being said, 17 saves is 17 saves, good to see him have a really good game. I also thought it was great for Seibald establish himself early. In the game against UVa, he didn't even get on the score sheet until the game is out of hand, which is frustrating because he can get into a scoring position at will. If we're going to do some real damage this year, he's going to need to play like this every game.

Germ
Nighty night Duke.

Ok..seriously..we're 3-0 in our last three at Durham so memo to Tambroni: "Please stop scheduling Duke unless they come to our crib. It's time they realized that we own them down there and it's now their turn to schlep it up our way."

If we actually own Duke down there, then A) why would we stop going there, and B) why would they want to play us in Ithaca?

Josh '99

Germ
Nighty night Duke.

Ok..seriously..we're 3-0 in our last three at Durham so memo to Tambroni: "Please stop scheduling Duke unless they come to our crib. It's time they realized that we own them down there and it's now their turn to schlep it up our way."

If we actually own Duke down there, then A) why would we stop going there, and B) why would they want to play us in Ithaca?

If we keep beating quality Duke teams down there, then why would we stop doing it? It only helps our team.

Also, our schedule is more flexible early in the season, when our weather sucks. That's a lot of the reason for playing there around spring break. It's not like football, where you might have an advantage playing in bad weather to which your opponent is unacclimatized. Or like hockey where your home crowd can be a factor.

I don't care about the home venue, I'd rather have the strength of schedule boost.

TimV
It's not like football, where you might have an advantage playing in bad weather to which your opponent is unacclimatized.

Allow me to introduce you to Mr. Typical Syracuse Fan...

TimV
Also, our schedule is more flexible early in the season, when our weather sucks. That's a lot of the reason for playing there around spring break. It's not like football, where you might have an advantage playing in bad weather to which your opponent is unacclimatized. Or like hockey where your home crowd can be a factor.

I don't care about the home venue, I'd rather have the strength of schedule boost.

I disagree with on the weather point; I don't see why it would be much different from football.

I've said it before, but I can't help repeating myself: I'd rather lose some of the SoS boost and see Cornell schedule another program that doesn't require Cornell to kowtow to them and only play at their field. Given where the two programs are and what they've done over the last several seasons, there's no reason why Duke shouldn't return the favor and play games in Ithaca.

JasonN95
I disagree with on the weather point; I don't see why it would be much different from football.

I see your and Rich H's point, and with respect to Syracuse (or other indoor teams, if there are any) you're both right and I'm wrong. That exception acknowledged, I think both teams otherwise involved have their game degraded fairly equally by bad weather. With regard to Duke specifically we may be more like Syracuse (faster, more uptempo) than they, and therefore more adversely affected.

JasonN95
I've said it before, but I can't help repeating myself: I'd rather lose some of the SoS boost and see Cornell schedule another program that doesn't require Cornell to kowtow to them and only play at their field. Given where the two programs are and what they've done over the last several seasons, there's no reason why Duke shouldn't return the favor and play games in Ithaca.

Can't buy this part of the argument. Especially this year, with two or three other strong teams that might win the Ivy title, that strength of schedule factor becomes very important either for seeding or for making the NCAA tournament at all.

As long as the NCAA's selection and seeding criteria are so heavily (and wrongly, IMO) biased toward strength of schedule, it's hard to argue with Tim's logic. While I'm as annoyed as Jason at the onesidedness in our scheduling with Duke, what matters most is getting teams on the schedule that will boost Cornell's SOS.

Al DeFlorio
As long as the NCAA's selection and seeding criteria are so heavily (and wrongly, IMO) biased toward strength of schedule, it's hard to argue with Tim's logic. While I'm as annoyed as Jason at the onesidedness in our scheduling with Duke, what matters most is getting teams on the schedule that will boost Cornell's SOS.

And, just as importantly Duke doesn't have to care about scheduling us. The ACC has their tight little Power SOS Generator. Any OOC games they play are more or less gifts bestowed on the poors. If we want Duke on our schedule - and I think it has been convincingly argued that we do - it is going to be on their terms.

ugarte

Al DeFlorio
As long as the NCAA's selection and seeding criteria are so heavily (and wrongly, IMO) biased toward strength of schedule, it's hard to argue with Tim's logic. While I'm as annoyed as Jason at the onesidedness in our scheduling with Duke, what matters most is getting teams on the schedule that will boost Cornell's SOS.

And, just as importantly Duke doesn't have to care about scheduling us. The ACC has their tight little Power SOS Generator. Any OOC games they play are more or less gifts bestowed on the poors. If we want Duke on our schedule - and I think it has been convincingly argued that we do - it is going to be on their terms.

Yes, but now the Ivies have constructed their own SoS dynamo. It may not be as potent as the ACC's --although with only UVA really pulling their weight so far, I wonder if the potency of the ACC tournament this year may be less than prior years-- it should help. I would think perception of the program would be an important factor when recruiting; having to always play at Duke makes Cornell look second tier.

ugarte

Al DeFlorio
As long as the NCAA's selection and seeding criteria are so heavily (and wrongly, IMO) biased toward strength of schedule, it's hard to argue with Tim's logic. While I'm as annoyed as Jason at the onesidedness in our scheduling with Duke, what matters most is getting teams on the schedule that will boost Cornell's SOS.

And, just as importantly Duke doesn't have to care about scheduling us. The ACC has their tight little Power SOS Generator. Any OOC games they play are more or less gifts bestowed on the poors. If we want Duke on our schedule - and I think it has been convincingly argued that we do - it is going to be on their terms.

Well, maybe we can start some change by scheduling a neutral-site game vs. Duke similar to how we played Navy on Long Island or Denver in TX or participate in an event like the Big City Classic.

JasonN95
Yes, but now the Ivies have constructed their own SoS dynamo. It may not be as potent as the ACC's --although with only UVA really pulling their weight so far, I wonder if the potency of the ACC tournament this year may be less than prior years-- it should help.

I'm not sure how much another game against a fourth-place Ivy League team is gonna boost strength of schedule. What's especially stupid is that the Ivy League champion will be determined by the regular season round-robin while the tournament will choose the autobid. So the league champion could stay home?

There are benefits, other than just an SOS boost, from these mid-week games far from Ithaca during spring break. It's an opportunity to take the team on the road to a good weather site, getting a LOT of outdoor practice time, getting a big time game in, AND doing some team building during the trips down and back and when they're all together without other distractions. Add that it usually happens just before the start of the IVY season. Coach Tambroni is VERY big on the idea of the "team" concept and from what I understand, these trips have always been valuable in that regard as well.

JasonN95
[H]aving to always play at Duke makes Cornell look second tier.

I don't buy it. I just can't picture a recruit weighing that against the wide variety of evidence that Cornell is a top-tier program:

- Won or shared the Ivy title six years in a row
- Played in the Final Four recently
- Had recent winners of the McLaughlin (Boulukos), Schmeisser (Belisle), and Kelly (McMonagle) Awards
- Have players on the Tewaaraton Watch List every year; had two finalists last year (Glynn, Seibald)
- Tambroni was National Coach of the Year in 2007

... and still conclude that Cornell is second-tier because they play regular road games at Duke.

peterg
There are benefits, other than just an SOS boost, from these mid-week games far from Ithaca during spring break. It's an opportunity to take the team on the road to a good weather site, getting a LOT of outdoor practice time, getting a big time game in, AND doing some team building during the trips down and back and when they're all together without other distractions. Add that it usually happens just before the start of the IVY season. Coach Tambroni is VERY big on the idea of the "team" concept and from what I understand, these trips have always been valuable in that regard as well.

All true.

Tambroni made this very clear in a Sun or Journal article before the team headed south. This has happened on and off since I was in school in the early and mid 60s. Back then, it was usually a disaster playing a Maryland or the like (1963 scores: Maryland 17, Cornell 10; Baltimore 9, Cornell 1). The team usually opened the season with a game or two in the south, taking a week of warmer weather for essentially an extended spring practice.

Interesting to note that the first game in the 1962 season was April 14. This year on that date we'll have just three regular season games left to play.

Al DeFlorio

peterg
There are benefits, other than just an SOS boost, from these mid-week games far from Ithaca during spring break. It's an opportunity to take the team on the road to a good weather site, getting a LOT of outdoor practice time, getting a big time game in, AND doing some team building during the trips down and back and when they're all together without other distractions. Add that it usually happens just before the start of the IVY season. Coach Tambroni is VERY big on the idea of the "team" concept and from what I understand, these trips have always been valuable in that regard as well.

All true.

Tambroni made this very clear in a Sun or Journal article before the team headed south. This has happened on and off since I was in school in the early and mid 60s. Back then, it was usually a disaster playing a Maryland or the like (1963 scores: Maryland 17, Cornell 10; Baltimore 9, Cornell 1). The team usually opened the season with a game or two in the south, taking a week of warmer weather for essentially an extended spring practice.

Interesting to note that the first game in the 1962 season was April 14. This year on that date we'll have just three regular season games left to play.

It was the IJ, and based upon how much he and the team feels it helps, we will probably be doing it for some time.

The ACCSelect videocast is now available for viewing by anyone who subscribed. Video quality is much better than on the live webcast, but there's still danger of being put quickly to sleep by the announcer.

peterg
There are benefits, other than just an SOS boost, from these mid-week games far from Ithaca during spring break. It's an opportunity to take the team on the road to a good weather site, getting a LOT of outdoor practice time, getting a big time game in, AND doing some team building during the trips down and back and when they're all together without other distractions. Add that it usually happens just before the start of the IVY season. Coach Tambroni is VERY big on the idea of the "team" concept and from what I understand, these trips have always been valuable in that regard as well.

That however can be achieved by having an alternating schedule arrangement with two southern teams, say a home game vs Virginia the season they are on the road at Duke, then flip. But I'm very willing to concede that I'm not being fully rational/objective about this. It still rubs me wrong that Duke (the institution) was given a do-over by the NCAA and a chance to get a national title was handed to them on a silver platter --I was fine with giving players back lost eligibility time, but that should have been only if they used it at a different school. And I feel like Duke is going to slip back to rear of the ACC --just my gut feeling. So I feel like the Cornell program's hard work deserves better treatment, especially from the likes of Duke. Just a crazy raw nerve for me.

It still rubs me wrong that Duke (the institution) was given a do-over by the NCAA and a chance to get a national title was handed to them on a silver platter --I was fine with giving players back lost eligibility time, but that should have been only if they used it at a different school.

Thankfully, though, they will never have to worry about an asterisk after their name, as they never ended up winning it all.

mnagowski
Thankfully, though, they will never have to worry about an asterisk after their name, as they never ended up winning it all.

So Far. They still have some fifth years on the roster.

JasonN95
I was fine with giving players back lost eligibility time, but that should have been only if they used it at a different school.

I'm not quite sure what to think in this case: the players were clearly railroaded by the "justice" system, so in that sense I think the NCAA did the right thing; but OTOH it's not clear the Duke administration had to unilaterally declare their season over and throw the players under the bus under the assumption that the accusations were true.

Specifically, I'm all for helping the players who were wronged by Mike Nifong (who is now bankrupt and will likely be working for the wronged Duke players for the rest of his life), but I'm not sure Duke should be rewarded for their part in this situation.

Honestly, I don't know why any Duke player would want to play for that school again. If I were one of them, I would spend the rest of my life doing what I could to make Duke pay for their support of unsubstantiated accusations against members of the Duke community.

Kyle Rose
Honestly, I don't know why any Duke player would want to play for that school again. If I were one of them, I would spend the rest of my life doing what I could to make Duke pay for their support of unsubstantiated accusations against members of the Duke community.

I'm sure the players bear some ill will towards the Duke administration and the faculty. I certainly would. But they may still love love their school anyway. There's a lot more to the college experience. And they probably have strong bonds to the teammates who they went through this with. Lots of reasons why the kids would want to stay even if there are plenty of reasons why they'd want to go.

KeithK

Kyle Rose
Honestly, I don't know why any Duke player would want to play for that school again. If I were one of them, I would spend the rest of my life doing what I could to make Duke pay for their support of unsubstantiated accusations against members of the Duke community.

I'm sure the players bear some ill will towards the Duke administration and the faculty. I certainly would. But they may still love love their school anyway. There's a lot more to the college experience. And they probably have strong bonds to the teammates who they went through this with. Lots of reasons why the kids would want to stay even if there are plenty of reasons why they'd want to go.

Yep - 16 years ago, Cornell cut my sport right before my senior year, saying that even if we came up with private/endowed funding for the team, they still wouldn't sponsor us as a varsity sport. And yet, here I am, posting on the Cornell hockey message board...

Robb
Yep - 16 years ago, Cornell cut my sport right before my senior year, saying that even if we came up with private/endowed funding for the team, they still wouldn't sponsor us as a varsity sport. And yet, here I am, posting on the Cornell hockey message board...

Is self-funding compatible with Title IX? If not, then your antipathy is probably best directed at the government rather than Cornell, anyway. I honestly don't know.

Kyle Rose

Robb
Yep - 16 years ago, Cornell cut my sport right before my senior year, saying that even if we came up with private/endowed funding for the team, they still wouldn't sponsor us as a varsity sport. And yet, here I am, posting on the Cornell hockey message board...

Is self-funding compatible with Title IX? If not, then your antipathy is probably best directed at the government rather than Cornell, anyway. I honestly don't know.

They didn't cut the men's team in order to comply with Title IX - it was purely a cost-saving move. They re-instated the women's team (without private funding) in order to avoid any Title IX controversey (the women were considering a lawsuit).

Robb

Kyle Rose

Robb
Yep - 16 years ago, Cornell cut my sport right before my senior year, saying that even if we came up with private/endowed funding for the team, they still wouldn't sponsor us as a varsity sport. And yet, here I am, posting on the Cornell hockey message board...

Is self-funding compatible with Title IX? If not, then your antipathy is probably best directed at the government rather than Cornell, anyway. I honestly don't know.

They didn't cut the men's team in order to comply with Title IX - it was purely a cost-saving move. They re-instated the women's team (without private funding) in order to avoid any Title IX controversey (the women were considering a lawsuit).

Reinstating the women's team while still canceling the men's team in the same sport should itself be a Title IX violation if what we cared about really was gender equity.

(Spare me the righteous arguments about football and wrestling.)

KeithK
(Spare me the righteous arguments about football and wrestling.)

OK. We won't discuss the relevant arguments. Continue as you were.

Completely agree with Kyle. The Duke administration clearly and obviously blew it, and that was true even before the case ended.

Josh '99

JasonN95
[H]aving to always play at Duke makes Cornell look second tier.

I don't buy it. I just can't picture a recruit weighing that against the wide variety of evidence that Cornell is a top-tier program:

- Won or shared the Ivy title six years in a row
- Played in the Final Four recently
- Had recent winners of the McLaughlin (Boulukos), Schmeisser (Belisle), and Kelly (McMonagle) Awards
- Have players on the Tewaaraton Watch List every year; had two finalists last year (Glynn, Seibald)
- Tambroni was National Coach of the Year in 2007

... and still conclude that Cornell is second-tier because they play regular road games at Duke.

I'm not an athlete, but I can imagine that a spring trip to the South could sound attractive.

David Harding

Josh '99

JasonN95
[H]aving to always play at Duke makes Cornell look second tier.

I don't buy it. I just can't picture a recruit weighing that against the wide variety of evidence that Cornell is a top-tier program:

- Won or shared the Ivy title six years in a row
- Played in the Final Four recently
- Had recent winners of the McLaughlin (Boulukos), Schmeisser (Belisle), and Kelly (McMonagle) Awards
- Have players on the Tewaaraton Watch List every year; had two finalists last year (Glynn, Seibald)
- Tambroni was National Coach of the Year in 2007

... and still conclude that Cornell is second-tier because they play regular road games at Duke.

I'm not an athlete, but I can imagine that a spring trip to the South could sound attractive.

Yeah, and really, there hasn't been ANY team (Duke or otherwise) south of the PA-MD border (some call it Mason-Dixon) to play a reg. season game in Ithaca since at least 2003. The furthest team to appear in Schoelkopf was Notre Dame. If UVA makes the trip, it will be a special occasion. It's just the way it is.