[OT] New York State alcohol laws

Okay, this is completely off topic, but this community is likely to know the answer given the number of law students, former law students, and people who turned 18 in the 1980s on this forum.

After watching the first two episodes of Reunion (set in 1986 and 1987), one thing that's struck me as a historical inaccuracy is the main characters (who graduated high school in 1986 and thus are presumably between the ages of 17 and 19 in these episodes) drinking openly, particularly in bars. I could swear the New York State drinking age had already been raised to 21 by 1986, but I can't actually find the date anywhere. I know it was raised from 18 to 19, and then to 21, and I know I was never old enough to drink until I was 21, which means it had to be 21 by 1988 and 19 by 1987. Does anybody have concrete or personal confirmation of when the laws were changed? (I know they didn't grandfather them in, and I believe some people were 18 when the age was raised to 19 and 19 or 20 when it was raised to 21.) Oh, the one other thing I do know is that the federal law that blackmailed states into raising the drinking age to 21 was passed in 1984.

I'm a bit surprised that I can still remember this, but the state law raising the drinking age to 19 went into effect in December of 1982. The last day of classes and the various fall formals coincided with the last day 18-year-olds would be able to legally drink.

I was already 21 (at least) when the age was raised to 21 in NY, so that would have happened in 1985 or later.

1985 according to this (http://www.nyblade.com/2005/4-8/locallife/main/roxy.cfm) sketchy source. I also found a Reagan speech saying that all but seven states had a 21 year old minimum in December 1986.

It was legal for me to drink as an 18-year old in January 1982 and as a 20-year old in January 1984. I dimly recall being pretty close to the cusp.

My birthday happens to be 1/2/67, so I remember this vividly.

During my freshman year on 1/1/85 New York raised the drinking age to 19 (just one day before I turned 18). However, they grandfathered in everyone that had turned 18 the previous year (most of my friends).

During my sophomore year, on 1/1/86 they raised the drinking age from 19 to 21 and DID NOT grandfather anyone in. Once again I just missed the cut.

Therefore many of my friends that had been able to legally drink for 1-2 years suddenly were not legal anymore. I distinctly remember a bunch of them buying several cases of beer (5 or 6) and hoarding it throughout the spring semester.

The running joke among my friends and family was that they would raise the drinking age to 30 when I turned 21 .

Cheers,

Eric

Of course, the alternative explanation could be that the show takes place in the kind of town where they just don't pay attention to such rules.

There's a great Wizard of Id cartoon from the 1980s, something like this:

"They're raising the drinking age"
"What good will it do?"
"There'll be no drunkenness on the front lines."

Stupid law, two decades later. You get in more trouble being a 19-year-old with a six pack of beer than with a bag of pot, especially if you're a first offender.

The incidence of drunken driven accidents & fatalities rises until men are in their mid-20s, so really, if highway safety is what it's all about, you have to raise the drinking age to ~28 (the first year in which traffic accidents aren't the leading cause of death) or else step up law enforcement for all ages. It was easier to pass a law (especially when the feds threatened access to highway funds) that mount a broad campaign against DWI.

[Q]billhoward Wrote:

There's a great Wizard of Id cartoon from the 1980s, something like this:

"They're raising the drinking age"
"What good will it do?"
"There'll be no drunkenness on the front lines."

Stupid law, two decades later. You get in more trouble being a 19-year-old with a six pack of beer than with a bag of pot, especially if you're a first offender.

The incidence of drunken driven accidents & fatalities rises until men are in their mid-20s, so really, if highway safety is what it's all about, you have to raise the drinking age to ~28 (the first year in which traffic accidents aren't the leading cause of death) or else step up law enforcement for all ages. It was easier to pass a law (especially when the feds threatened access to highway funds) that mount a broad campaign against DWI.
[/q]

Or increase the age of licensed drivers to 21 to coincide.

[Q]billhoward Wrote:

There's a great Wizard of Id cartoon from the 1980s, something like this:

"They're raising the drinking age"
"What good will it do?"
"There'll be no drunkenness on the front lines."

Stupid law, two decades later. You get in more trouble being a 19-year-old with a six pack of beer than with a bag of pot, especially if you're a first offender.

The incidence of drunken driven accidents & fatalities rises until men are in their mid-20s, so really, if highway safety is what it's all about, you have to raise the drinking age to ~28 (the first year in which traffic accidents aren't the leading cause of death) or else step up law enforcement for all ages. It was easier to pass a law (especially when the feds threatened access to highway funds) that mount a broad campaign against DWI.
[/q]

I think I just saw the word "great" and "Wizard of Id" used in the same sentence. Wait...I just read a "Wizard of Id" reference. *goes drinking*

(oh, and JTW: nobody ever in the history of adolescence has entered a bar and consumed alcohol when under-age. Not today, and certainly not in the 1980s. So your questioning of the validity of a program on the fine Fox network is completely acceptable to me.)

Points to anyone making a "Marmaduke," "Ziggy," or "Family Circus" reference. How about some classic "Heathcliff," Bill?

[Q]RichH Wrote:

[I think I just saw the word "great" and "Wizard of Id" used in the same sentence. Wait...I just read a "Wizard of Id" reference. *goes drinking*
Points to anyone making a "Marmaduke," "Ziggy," or "Family Circus" reference. How about some classic "Heathcliff," Bill?
[/q]

how dare you mock such cutting edge comic strips, hovorka! i don't even know if an issue's important until an aryan father figure explains it to his angelic child in a family circus cartoon, preferably with a tenuous analogy featuring a pet. of course, i'm pretty sure i stole than whole sentence from a "ziggy" anyway....

of course, my undergrad housemates thought mr. gnu utter genius, so there's no accounting for taste.


[phil's corner was superior]

[still don't get the living end]

Mr. Gnu was years ahead of its time dammit. C'mon, a bat with tits.

[Q]French Rage Wrote:

Mr. Gnu was years ahead of its time dammit. C'mon, a bat with tits.[/q]

When did 'ahead of it's time' change it's meaning to 'immature and stupid'????

Now, if you want "immature and stupid" and "ahead of its time," there's no substitute for Goats.com...

...and it's written by a Cornellian with an appreciation for fine Hot Truck comestibles.

[goats.com]

Beeeej

> During my freshman year on 1/1/85 New York raised the drinking age to 19 (just one day before I turned 18). However, they grandfathered in everyone that had turned 18 the previous year (most of my friends). <

Sorry Ericho, but I don't think that's right. I graduated in May 1984, and I remember being a 20-year-old junior sitting in The Connection on College Ave. when Jerry the owner went table to table to check everyone's ID at about 10 or 11 p.m. The reason was that the drinking age was to turn to 19 at midnight, and 18 year olds were not going to be grandfathered. My recollection seems to dovetail with Fenwick's estimation that the 18-19 jump occured in December 1982 (I was 20 then, and I was a junior then, and I was in bars often then). The 18-19 increase did little to curb excesses on campus.

[Q]jtwcornell91 Wrote:

I know it was raised from 18 to 19, and then to 21 ... Does anybody have concrete or personal confirmation of when the laws were changed? (I know they didn't grandfather them in, and I believe some people were 18 when the age was raised to 19 and 19 or 20 when it was raised to 21.) [/q]

Well, Eric and Scott have already weighted in, but my friend Matt was high school class of '84 and he was one of the poor souls they kept changing it on. He couldn't drink at 17, could drink at 18, maybe got grandfathered for the change to 19?, then couldn't drink when it changed to 21, and then finally could drink at 21.

When I talk to him next, I'll ask about the grandfathering.

Loud Guy: New york state alcohol laws...

Everyone in crowd: SUCK!!

[Q]ericho_4511 Wrote:
they would raise the drinking age to 30.[/q]
IIRC, there's a Philip K. Dick novel in which that's the case.

I think you could say that about most things.

"Man, I got so drunk the other night - I woke up yesterday morning in the Topeka, Kansas school board meeting room with my pants down around my ankles, a copy of Darwin's The Origin of Species up my ass, Marvin Gaye playing on the stereo, and empty juice boxes scattered everywhere."
"Dude, wasn't that in a Philip K. Dick novel?"

Beeeej

Middlebury president John McCardell opined last October (once he had safely retired to South Carolina) that one of the biggest mistakes of his tenure was not speaking out against the 21-year-drinking age that was "bad policy and bad law" and probably promoted binge drinking.

[Q]andy Wrote:

Loud Guy: Pennsylvania alcohol laws...

Everyone in crowd: SUCK!![/q]

Fixed your post.

You can't even buy a beer in a grocery store in this state. They just passed a law to allow you to buy a case of beer on a Sunday, but only during limited hours, and only from a "beer distributor".

And the state still runs the liquor stores and limits who and what you can buy.

As strange as it still seems to see hard liquor in a supermarket (in CA), esp. when it's in the same aisle as things like milk and eggs, the inherent deregulation has got to be good for consumers. I have no problem believing that the folks who originally set up laws like the one Jeff describes were well meaning based on their moral codes. But human nature being what it is, this type of regulatory scheme ends up doing little more than enriching particular players at the expense of the average citizen.

[Q]Jeff Hopkins '82 Wrote:

andy Wrote:

Loud Guy: Pennsylvania alcohol laws...

Everyone in crowd: SUCK!![/Q]
Fixed your post.

You can't even buy a beer in a grocery store in this state. They just passed a law to allow you to buy a case of beer on a Sunday, but only during limited hours, and only from a "beer distributor".

And the state still runs the liquor stores and limits who and what you can buy.
[/q]

Beer in bars is significantly cheaper here. It's no great chore to find drafts of Yeungling for a dollar a piece, which is good.