FISH

This is my first post on elynah, but I've been lurking for some time. As one of the people who got tossed from Lynah tonight for tossing fish, a few comments:

First, I think it's ridiculous that Gene and his merry men are throwing people out of the rink in record numbers this year. I got tossed last year for saying "asshole" once and this year for tossing an $8 red snapper. I'll get back to the fish in a moment. To throw people out for obscenity is foolish. I've seen so many interviews from top recruits in the last few years mentioning the atmosphere of Lynah as one of the reasons they chose to play for Cornell. Are we trying to remove this element? Perhaps one of the reasons we are suffering at home this year is because a lot of devoted fans are listening to the games on the drive home after getting ejected.

I understand the desire to clean up the language, but there is no reason to be this hardcore about it. In four years I have never seen anything like this. It's almost like the rink attendants are city cops at the end of the month.

Second, the fish. Getting tossed for throwing fish on the ice is like getting tossed for saying "Harvard Sucks." I'm embarrassed that my school has such a policy. This is one of the most noteworthy traditions in college hockey. Do we really want to get rid of something this wonderful? Throwing toys on the ice is not even a close second. In fact, it is something I would expect at a women's hockey game (and I don't mean that as an insult because I have friends on the team). It's weak. It's effeminate. It does not scream "We want to remove the will to win from our opponents." It says we care about kids, which is fine outside of the rink.

In the rink, I want to create the most hostile atmosphere possible for our opponents. This means yelling at the top of our lungs. This means using obscenities when appropriate. And this means honoring traditions like throwing fish at the worthless players for Harvard (Sucks) at every available opportunity.

With all that off my chest, it sounds like McKee played the game of his life tonight. Congratulations to him, Hynes, and the rest of the team for a well-deserved win tonight.

Until Union...

[Q]This means using obscenities when appropriate. [/Q]Yeah, like the guy who called me a f**king a**hole because I wouldn't just hand him a Snickers.



Post Edited (12-07-03 01:03)

First, regarding the profanity...I wish it weren't the way it is, I wish it were total free speech, but it's not like that. Like it or not, we have rules, and they're going to be enforced at some points. The thing is, obscenities for the most part aren't necessary. Being loud is good, but being creative is better. Creativity doesn't require profane language. Think outside of the box.

Second, regarding the fish...I have sympathy for the people who inevitably have to clean up the fish, but I assume they're getting paid to do so. Hahvahd, on the other hand, gets no sympathy from me, and they deserve all aquatic lifeforms they get hit with. We could just as easily bring teddy bears to the Brown game and reserve the fish for the Hahvahd game.

I don't know if McKee played the game of his life tonight, having only faced 21 shots, but he still played a damn fine game.

Creative is indeed better

....which reminds me, I thought the "hey morris, mr. belding called, he said.....YOU SUCK" variation tonight was quite funny....

In response to your two points:

Profanity: I also sometimes wish this were removed from the rink. This year I've stopped saying "a-hole" in the "you goon" cheer. Why? Because I think we can be intimidating without being profane. And my opinion was partly shaped because of some people on this board who suggested that "a-hole" be directed only toward particularly egregious goons. However, even if we are not profane, we can still be extremely loud. Being loud is not good, but GREAT. This is why we've had outstanding recruiting classes recently. Players want to play in Lynah.

Fish: I know people who do clean up the fish. They don't mind. They wear gloves, and believe me (being an avid deep-sea fisherman), even without gloves snapper is easier to wash off your hands than...well nevermind. This is an outstanding tradition. It is fun. It gets the crowd very involved. It sends the opposing team crowering by their bench in fear of being struck by multiple squid. To get rid of this is to say we want to be like all the other Ivy Leagueteams who have atrocious fan support. Coming from the south, I appreciate the importance of a loyal fanbase. If Nighman really wants to screw up, he should continue to throw the most loyal fans out of the rink as often as possible.

Regarding this gentleman, if he were in the athletics department for a large public university in the south, he would have been gone long ago. You simply do not offend the people who support your atheltics programs and are likely to do so in the future. It's suicidal. If he throws people out for tossing fish next year, I give him two more years. After that, hopefully my individual alumni contibutions will be enough to have him removed.

I love Cornell. I love our hockey team. I despise anyone who tries to undermine the longstanding traditions that have led us to greatness.

GO CU!!!



Post Edited (12-07-03 01:53)

um, drugs are bad, mmmmkay?

It's a shame to miss part of the Hahvahd game for any reason, of course. And I admire you for bringing and throwing fish knowing the risks. But you won't get much sympathy from me for getting tossed when you did know the risks and the consequences. And for goodness's sake, don't blame it on the guy who's just doing his job as it's been laid out for him, even if he is a jerk.

Beeeej

This is what I think:

FISH: I think it's a great tradition. Fun to watch, fun to participate in, fun to listen to the stories. Why anyone associated with the boys would want to discontinue such a tradition is beyond me, as it also is a form of publicity, in a way. I mean, what do they think this, a school, with rules all layed out? This is a public place. Personally, I think this is the way it should be: They should allow fish in Lynah, even if someone carries it in blantly in a P&C bag.. they should just allow it, and not question anything. Anyone who wants to throw fish can. The only restriction would be that if such a large amount of fish is thrown, then Cornell will get a penalty for the delay of the start of game. Then, if the fans choose to throw so much fish that it delays the game, there is a small punishment for them and the team. Then, the fans can choose how they want to act, not the security restricting the fish like short skirts in 7th grade.

LANGUAGE: Like I said, Lynah Rink is a public place. Kinda like going to the mall. There should be free speech, like anywhere else in this country. If parents have a problem with their kids hearing that kind of language, then get a babysitter. Also, it's not like they will always be able to keep their kids from hearing that language. You can walk into the mall and hear some college student go, "Hey Mike! Sh*t, what the f*ck are you doing here??!". This is the United States and our language is our culture. You can't hide from that.


HC

Fortunately there are few kids (age-wise, not maturity-wise) in the student sections, so that verbal profanity such as with GG is acceptable (surely the townies with kids won't swear right into the ears of the youngins), as you can predict EXACTLY when to tell your children "ear muffs" (during GG). Rarely is profanity so acute and clear in the entire rink for children to be significantly tarnished. However, HUGE signs without self-censored profanity ("HUCK FARVARD" isn't too bad, 'tis funny) isn't necessary, and usually isn't very clever. Yes, the kids aren't going to be innocent forever, but no, we don't need to "educate" them with sink-or-swim profanity. Hotel, the Eagles are G-rated and everyone likes them.

I'm guessing this happens in all of the student sections, but during GG, two ushers walk down to the bottom of our section, and split those of us in the first row up by pushing us apart, standing between us (in my seats...I should ask her to pay for it) and stairing up at the crowd. She never finds ANYONE yelling "f*ck 'em up" while still half of them do, even with her standing there...it's just annoying. I'll live, but she's on a power-trip, which is why I didn't give her any candy. ...Earl, on the other hand, has let me keep my "Don't Mess With McKee" sign up on the glass, so he got candy.


- Santa Claus

[Q]Like I said, Lynah Rink is a public place. Kinda like going to the mall. [/Q]

Umm...last time I checked Lynah was part of Cornell University...I could be wrong, this may have changed since last night. And I'm also pretty sure that if you go to the mall and start screaming f-bombs you're gonna get tossed too.

Thanks again for reminding us that you see yourself as a moral standard that the rest of us should live our lives by.

HOTELCALIFORNIA wrote:
LANGUAGE: Like I said, Lynah Rink is a public place. Kinda like going to the mall. There should be free speech, like anywhere else in this country.

How disappointing to see that so many students still grow up not having the slightest idea what the First Amendment actually says or means.

Beeeej

Do you believe in Santa Claus?

Ben Rocky '04 wrote:
Thanks again for reminding us that you see yourself as a moral standard that the rest of us should live our lives by.

Oh, yeah. That's exactly what I meant.

If, going into a situation, you know the consequences of acting a certain way, and then you act that way, you don't get to complain about the consequences - or at least you don't sound very smart doing it. Drug laws may be stupid, but I would love to see you try to get sympathy, even from fellow pot smokers, for getting arrested when you smoke pot in front of a cop.

I would have loved to have been there last night, and I would've loved to throw fish. If I'd thrown fish, I would've done my best not to get caught doing it. But if I'd gotten caught, I'd have been a man about it and not blamed someone else for the consequences of my own actions.

Beeeej

Ya know, how painful is it to yell Rough em up? The appeal was made by Schafer while I was there to stop the swearing. The appeal worked, for the most part, and Lynah certainly was no friendlier for the visitors in that time period. Profanity certainly isn't required to keep the Lynah atmosphere as charged as it is. Try it, it won't hurt and it makes the environment better for kids.....

-John

Good point, and most anything Schafer says, we'll follow.

[Q]HOTELCALIFORNIA wrote:
LANGUAGE: Like I said, Lynah Rink is a public place. Kinda like going to the mall. There should be free speech, like anywhere else in this country.[/Q]But, in general, malls are not public places. For the most part they are considered private property, and speech can be, and is restricted. Pyramid Cos. has gone so far as to restrict children on Fri. and Sat. night to coming to Carousel Mall with adults only. (Now how would that be, you can't go to Lynah except with your parent....just kidding, just kidding....I don't want to start another war. )

Let me propose another idea. Coach does really want the language cleaned up. He has been quite clear about that. However, he's not been as vociferous about the fish, except not wanting a penalty. Does anyone really think we don't get criticized by H****D for the fish. And don't we have to come up with some answer. Maybe, just maybe, we have to say things to show our concern, hoping we can keep the fish controlable, and then just getting on with it.



Post Edited (12-07-03 17:46)

Is there a good reason Schafer couldn't arrange for the rink staff to be told:
"If they get the fish past the door 'coat check', throw it at the right time, and only hit the ice or Mazzolini, leave them alone"?

It sounds like someone in the Athletics Dept bureaucracy made this decision, and no one has bothered to override it. It ought to be reasonably easy to get someone to change this policy if you ask the right people and get the coach to agree.



Post Edited (12-07-03 18:37)

[Q]Is there a good reason Schafer couldn't arrange for the rink staff to be told:
"If they get the fish past the door 'coat check', throw it at the right time, and only hit the ice or Mazzolini, leave them alone"?[/Q]

I agree. Fish throwing is fun, harmless for the most part and one of the things that gets Cornell in the papers around area and maybe in magazines like Sports Illustrated. Isn't it a good thing to have the university name out there in the media? I'm sure any recruit who came to a game against harvard and saw how great it could be to be on the team not having fish thrown at them would love to come here and play for the Big Red.

On the language. The more I listen to past students and hear how cheers used to be, I wish it more like that. Two cheers I wish were back: when a player gets a penalty, loudly and with a lot of emphasis yell "YOU YOU YOU" at the guilty player and when scoring a goal, counting each goal slowly and with emphasis instead of the quick count we have now.

UNH did a really looooong goal count (that started to really piss me off, but I suppose that's the point... grr) where they'd hold up the number of goals they had and swirl their hands around their heads. Don't know how long they they decide to go before stopping the swirling, but I suppose it has to do with how many goals they scored.

dss28 wrote:

UNH did a really looooong goal count (that started to really piss me off, but I suppose that's the point... grr) where they'd hold up the number of goals they had and swirl their hands around their heads. Don't know how long they they decide to go before stopping the swirling, but I suppose it has to do with how many goals they scored.

BU has a thing like that, where they spin their hands over their heads once per goal, with sieves in between and a sieve chant at the end. Nicely annoying, because it gets longer the more they score.

Yeah, I remember wanting to drop kick those U-H-N fans in Woostah....

Hehe... I still think that was one of the funniest things I've seen -- the UNH fans misspelling their own school... is the guy who yelled "HEY! DID YOU GET 6 CREDITS FOR THAT ART PROJECT?!" a poster here?

That would be me, and thank you. :-{)}

Classic. I still remember that 2 years later.

Adam Brown '03 wrote:

um, drugs are bad, mmmmkay?

what is this in reference to?

The rink police were out of control last night.

I sat in Section O (sucks). Before the game, a woman with some small children, including a very little girl on her shoulder, came by with some stuffed toys to throw over the rink. The little girl could barely drop the toys over the rink. When she dropped the toys on the floor, someone would pick them up and hand them to her and eventually this girl was able to place maybe four or five stuffed animals on the ice. It was exactly the touching kid-friendly Hallmark moment that this toy drive was doubtless designed to create.

As this little toddler was trying to place toys on the ice, a nasty old rink official came by and yelled -- yelled -- at the woman and her child, threatening to throw them out if they threw anything out on the ice during the game. It was horrible.

Later in the game, a police officer came by and told three girls sitting in front of me to cover up their shirts or leave. The shirts read "Fuck Harvard." Now, granted, these shirts are inappropriate in a kindergarden and may even be in poor taste, but this is still a university campus. To his credit, this cop was nice about it.

The authorities definitely had an itchy finger on the eject button. Some of these guys have probably not removed the buckles from their hats and don't belong in a hockey game. After the game they probably went around area pre-schools telling kids there's no santa clause and candy is bad for them.

Overall, the toy thing was lame. Bring back the fish.

just a guess ... South Park?

The school pretty much has to at least pretend to search for fish. Throwing stuff on the ice is technically against NCAA rules, so they can't officially accept the practice. Plus, I'd say the search process makes the point that this is not generally something that people should do (on other nights), so it would serve a useful purpose even if it were done with a knowing wink.

Besides, walking in with fish blatantly in your hand would take a lot of the fun out of the tradition. Hiding the fish is part of the fun.

Sounds like the cop did exactly the right thing. Shirts saying F Harvard are totally inappropriate, but he gave them the chance to comply without getting nasty.

Keith K '93 wrote:

The school pretty much has to at least pretend to search for fish. Throwing stuff on the ice is technically against NCAA rules

Unless you have a guy drive out in a mini-zamboni (sorry, Mav-boni) and scoop it up, apparently.

Besides, walking in with fish blatantly in your hand would take a lot of the fun out of the tradition. Hiding the fish is part of the fun.

Kind of like if they let you walk out of the dining hall with a tray under your arm?

Yeah, but come on. Slope Day is against a lot of rules (including the law, in more ways than one), and while they fall short of condoning that, they certainly aren't actively prohibiting it. I think they take this fish thing way too far, in my opinion.