Zamboni Gig in Toronto has Perks
Posted by marty
Zamboni Gig in Toronto has Perks
Posted by: marty (---.nycap.res.rr.com)
Date: February 23, 2020 04:15PM
Re: Zamboni Gig in Toronto has Perks
Posted by: David Harding (---.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
Date: February 23, 2020 05:09PM
He had a brush with fame at a lower level four years ago. [www.pensionplanpuppets.com]marty
David Suits Up
Re: Zamboni Gig in Toronto has Perks
Posted by: andyw2100 (---.twcny.res.rr.com)
Date: February 23, 2020 06:34PM
I was amused by the fact that he played the second period in blue pants but that by the third he had changed into red pants, to match his teammates.
Re: Zamboni Gig in Toronto has Perks
Posted by: The Rancor (73.93.141.---)
Date: February 23, 2020 10:55PM
incredible.
Re: Zamboni Gig in Toronto has Perks
Posted by: ugarte (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: February 23, 2020 10:55PM
weird that he didn't have a hockeydb page since the article says he played for the laredo bucks (but hockey db doesn't have him on their all-time roster).
so now he has a hockeydb profile that looks like he fell out of the sky into the nhl, which isn't totally untrue and kind of perfect.
so now he has a hockeydb profile that looks like he fell out of the sky into the nhl, which isn't totally untrue and kind of perfect.
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Re: Zamboni Gig in Toronto has Perks
Posted by: ursusminor (---.washdc.dsl-w.verizon.net)
Date: February 24, 2020 04:29AM
ugarte
weird that he didn't have a hockeydb page since the article says he played for the laredo bucks (but hockey db doesn't have him on their all-time roster).
so now he has a hockeydb profile that looks like he fell out of the sky into the nhl, which isn't totally untrue and kind of perfect.
Actually, he fell out of thin ayres. (Well, not so thin.)
Re: Zamboni Gig in Toronto has Perks
Posted by: marty (---.nycap.res.rr.com)
Date: February 24, 2020 06:57AM
Re: Zamboni Gig in Toronto has Perks
Posted by: Trotsky (---.dc.dc.cox.net)
Date: February 24, 2020 11:33AM
The Canes were ahead when he came in, why does he get the win?ugarte
so now he has a hockeydb profile that looks like he fell out of the sky into the nhl, which isn't totally untrue and kind of perfect.
His Elite Prospects page is great too.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2020 11:35AM by Trotsky.
Re: Zamboni Gig in Toronto has Perks
Posted by: DL (---.nrflva.fios.verizon.net)
Date: February 24, 2020 11:45AM
The first goalie went out because he was "shaken up" and the backup was pulled due to injury. Not sure how I'd feel if it was like the last 60 seconds or five minutes, but since he finished half the game, it seems reasonable that he'd get the win.Trotsky
The Canes were ahead when he came in, why does he get the win?
Re: Zamboni Gig in Toronto has Perks
Posted by: Trotsky (---.dc.dc.cox.net)
Date: February 24, 2020 11:59AM
I have always thought the rule was deterministic: if you're the goalie of record when the final go ahead goal is scored then you're the weiner.
I wasn't arguing he didn't "deserve" it but that there is no "deserve," only a rule.
I wasn't arguing he didn't "deserve" it but that there is no "deserve," only a rule.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2020 12:00PM by Trotsky.
Re: Zamboni Gig in Toronto has Perks
Posted by: upprdeck (---.fs.cornell.edu)
Date: February 24, 2020 12:46PM
I find lots of stats that say the goalie on the ice when the game winning goal is scored which in this game would have been goal scored and thats not the Zamboni driver so why did he get the win?
Re: Zamboni Gig in Toronto has Perks
Posted by: DL (---.nrflva.fios.verizon.net)
Date: February 24, 2020 01:02PM
No idea what the rules are, or even if he deserved it, that's what I rely on you guys for, because it logically makes sense either way.
Re: Zamboni Gig in Toronto has Perks
Posted by: ACM (---.twcny.res.rr.com)
Date: February 24, 2020 02:00PM
Trotsky
I have always thought the rule was deterministic: if you're the goalie of record when the final go ahead goal is scored then you're the weiner.
I wasn't arguing he didn't "deserve" it but that there is no "deserve," only a rule.
From the most recent NCAA Ice Hockey Statisticians Manual (2013-14):
"In a non-tie game, the game-winning goal (GWG) is the goal for the winning team that is one more than the total number of goals scored by the losing team. If the losing team scores three goals, the fourth goal scored by the winning team is the GWG."
It's not the same as baseball.
Re: Zamboni Gig in Toronto has Perks
Posted by: Robb (107.72.162.---)
Date: February 24, 2020 02:08PM
That gives a rather perverse incentive. You’re winning 3-1, goalie goes down. You come in the game and your team goes up 4-1. You now have an incentive to let the other team score 2, so that your 4th goal becomes the winning goal. Strange.
Re: Zamboni Gig in Toronto has Perks
Posted by: adamw (---.phlapa.fios.verizon.net)
Date: February 24, 2020 02:12PM
upprdeck
I find lots of stats that say the goalie on the ice when the game winning goal is scored which in this game would have been goal scored and thats not the Zamboni driver so why did he get the win?
It's not entirely clear what your sentence is supposed to mean ... but Ayres was on the ice when the GWG was scored. So he gets the win.
Re: Zamboni Gig in Toronto has Perks
Posted by: ugarte (---.177.169.163.IPYX-102276-ZYO.zip.zayo.com)
Date: February 24, 2020 02:41PM
it's because the definition of game winning rbi is different than game winning goal. in baseball, the GWRBI is the RBI that gave your team a lead that it never gave up, so if Rickey hits a leadoff homer, then the A's score 10 more runs and the Mariners score 2 in the bottom of the 9th to make the score 11-2, Rickey gets the GWRBI but the same team scoring order wouldn't be a GWG.adamw
upprdeck
I find lots of stats that say the goalie on the ice when the game winning goal is scored which in this game would have been goal scored and thats not the Zamboni driver so why did he get the win?
It's not entirely clear what your sentence is supposed to mean ... but Ayres was on the ice when the GWG was scored. So he gets the win.
___________________________
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2020 02:44PM by ugarte.
Re: Zamboni Gig in Toronto has Perks
Posted by: ugarte (---.177.169.163.IPYX-102276-ZYO.zip.zayo.com)
Date: February 24, 2020 02:44PM
this is only an incentive to the very dumbest goalieRobb
That gives a rather perverse incentive. You’re winning 3-1, goalie goes down. You come in the game and your team goes up 4-1. You now have an incentive to let the other team score 2, so that your 4th goal becomes the winning goal. Strange.
___________________________
quality tweets | bluesky (twitter 2) | ALAB Series podcast | Other podcasts and writing
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Re: Zamboni Gig in Toronto has Perks
Posted by: RichH (104.194.220.---)
Date: February 24, 2020 02:52PM
ACM
Trotsky
I have always thought the rule was deterministic: if you're the goalie of record when the final go ahead goal is scored then you're the weiner.
I wasn't arguing he didn't "deserve" it but that there is no "deserve," only a rule.
From the most recent NCAA Ice Hockey Statisticians Manual (2013-14):
"In a non-tie game, the game-winning goal (GWG) is the goal for the winning team that is one more than the total number of goals scored by the losing team. If the losing team scores three goals, the fourth goal scored by the winning team is the GWG."
It's not the same as baseball.
Another difference is that in baseball, the official scorer is given some freedom to award a win to another reliever if the pitcher who technically qualified for a win was deemed to be ineffective and/or having a very brief outing. It's a rarely used judgement situation, but I've seen it happen. There doesn't seem to be any leeway in awarding a win to a more effective goaltender in hockey.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2020 02:53PM by RichH.
Re: Zamboni Gig in Toronto has Perks
Posted by: Trotsky (---.dc.dc.cox.net)
Date: February 24, 2020 02:54PM
Thank you. This explains it. I don't like it but it explains it.ACM
Trotsky
I have always thought the rule was deterministic: if you're the goalie of record when the final go ahead goal is scored then you're the weiner.
I wasn't arguing he didn't "deserve" it but that there is no "deserve," only a rule.
From the most recent NCAA Ice Hockey Statisticians Manual (2013-14):
"In a non-tie game, the game-winning goal (GWG) is the goal for the winning team that is one more than the total number of goals scored by the losing team. If the losing team scores three goals, the fourth goal scored by the winning team is the GWG."
It's not the same as baseball.
Re: Zamboni Gig in Toronto has Perks
Posted by: Jim Hyla (---.239.191.68.cl.cstel.com)
Date: February 24, 2020 03:11PM
ugarte
this is only an incentive to the very dumbest goalieRobb
That gives a rather perverse incentive. You’re winning 3-1, goalie goes down. You come in the game and your team goes up 4-1. You now have an incentive to let the other team score 2, so that your 4th goal becomes the winning goal. Strange.
Who, I suspect, would not be in the league for very long.
___________________________
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Cornell lawyers stopped the candy throwing. Jan/2005
Re: Zamboni Gig in Toronto has Perks
Posted by: Swampy (---.ri.ri.cox.net)
Date: February 24, 2020 03:26PM
Jim Hyla
ugarte
this is only an incentive to the very dumbest goalieRobb
That gives a rather perverse incentive. You’re winning 3-1, goalie goes down. You come in the game and your team goes up 4-1. You now have an incentive to let the other team score 2, so that your 4th goal becomes the winning goal. Strange.
Who, I suspect, would not be in the league for very long.
What if this goalie plays in Houston? One might think there would be more tolerance for this kind of cheating.
Re: Zamboni Gig in Toronto has Perks
Posted by: adamw (---.phlapa.fios.verizon.net)
Date: February 24, 2020 05:00PM
ugarte
it's because the definition of game winning rbi is different than game winning goal. in baseball, the GWRBI is the RBI that gave your team a lead that it never gave up, so if Rickey hits a leadoff homer, then the A's score 10 more runs and the Mariners score 2 in the bottom of the 9th to make the score 11-2, Rickey gets the GWRBI but the same team scoring order wouldn't be a GWG.adamw
upprdeck
I find lots of stats that say the goalie on the ice when the game winning goal is scored which in this game would have been goal scored and thats not the Zamboni driver so why did he get the win?
It's not entirely clear what your sentence is supposed to mean ... but Ayres was on the ice when the GWG was scored. So he gets the win.
Yes - this is true. Except that baseball doesn't use that stat anymore, and hasn't for quite a while. But the same philosophy holds true still for the win in baseball.
People have problems with the baseball definition, and people have problems with the hockey definition. Basically, people just like to complain. There are merits to either approach, and neither is optimal. But if you want to make it a totally objective decision, you have to do something. Also "wins" for pitchers/goalies are fairly useless stats.
Re: Zamboni Gig in Toronto has Perks
Posted by: ugarte (---.177.169.163.IPYX-102276-ZYO.zip.zayo.com)
Date: February 24, 2020 05:10PM
none of this is in dispute. the reason there was confusion is because people were applying the baseball rule to hockey. that's all. only greg was getting upset that his preferred method wasn't being used and, well, that's greg and elynah wouldn't be the same without him.adamw
ugarte
it's because the definition of game winning rbi is different than game winning goal. in baseball, the GWRBI is the RBI that gave your team a lead that it never gave up, so if Rickey hits a leadoff homer, then the A's score 10 more runs and the Mariners score 2 in the bottom of the 9th to make the score 11-2, Rickey gets the GWRBI but the same team scoring order wouldn't be a GWG.adamw
upprdeck
I find lots of stats that say the goalie on the ice when the game winning goal is scored which in this game would have been goal scored and thats not the Zamboni driver so why did he get the win?
It's not entirely clear what your sentence is supposed to mean ... but Ayres was on the ice when the GWG was scored. So he gets the win.
Yes - this is true. Except that baseball doesn't use that stat anymore, and hasn't for quite a while. But the same philosophy holds true still for the win in baseball.
People have problems with the baseball definition, and people have problems with the hockey definition. Basically, people just like to complain. There are merits to either approach, and neither is optimal. But if you want to make it a totally objective decision, you have to do something. Also "wins" for pitchers/goalies are fairly useless stats.
___________________________
quality tweets | bluesky (twitter 2) | ALAB Series podcast | Other podcasts and writing
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Re: Zamboni Gig in Toronto has Perks
Posted by: Trotsky (---.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
Date: February 24, 2020 05:18PM
Not this time. There is no issue of distinct moral clarity this time. This time I was just wrong.ugarte
that's all. only greg was getting upset that his preferred method wasn't being used
Re: Zamboni Gig in Toronto has Perks
Posted by: ursusminor (---.washdc.dsl-w.verizon.net)
Date: February 24, 2020 05:27PM
Swampy
Jim Hyla
ugarte
this is only an incentive to the very dumbest goalieRobb
That gives a rather perverse incentive. You’re winning 3-1, goalie goes down. You come in the game and your team goes up 4-1. You now have an incentive to let the other team score 2, so that your 4th goal becomes the winning goal. Strange.
Who, I suspect, would not be in the league for very long.
What if this goalie plays in Houston? One might think there would be more tolerance for this kind of cheating.
Wait a minute! The rule at the Houston Field House is no different than anywhere else.
Re: Zamboni Gig in Toronto has Perks
Posted by: upprdeck (38.77.26.---)
Date: February 24, 2020 05:49PM
adamw
upprdeck
I find lots of stats that say the goalie on the ice when the game winning goal is scored which in this game would have been goal scored and thats not the Zamboni driver so why did he get the win?
It's not entirely clear what your sentence is supposed to mean ... but Ayres was on the ice when the GWG was scored. So he gets the win.
From what i saw he was on the ice when it was 4-1? did he come in sooner than that?
Re: Zamboni Gig in Toronto has Perks
Posted by: ugarte (---.177.169.163.IPYX-102276-ZYO.zip.zayo.com)
Date: February 24, 2020 06:11PM
greg,Trotsky
Not this time. There is no issue of distinct moral clarity this time. This time I was just wrong.ugarte
that's all. only greg was getting upset that his preferred method wasn't being used
Trotsky
... I don't like it but it explains it.
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quality tweets | bluesky (twitter 2) | ALAB Series podcast | Other podcasts and writing
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Re: Zamboni Gig in Toronto has Perks
Posted by: ugarte (---.177.169.163.IPYX-102276-ZYO.zip.zayo.com)
Date: February 24, 2020 06:13PM
i took a look at the time on ice for the other goalies and i think he came in at 3-1 but didn't face a shot until 4-1.upprdeck
adamw
upprdeck
I find lots of stats that say the goalie on the ice when the game winning goal is scored which in this game would have been goal scored and thats not the Zamboni driver so why did he get the win?
It's not entirely clear what your sentence is supposed to mean ... but Ayres was on the ice when the GWG was scored. So he gets the win.
From what i saw he was on the ice when it was 4-1? did he come in sooner than that?
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quality tweets | bluesky (twitter 2) | ALAB Series podcast | Other podcasts and writing
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Re: Zamboni Gig in Toronto has Perks
Posted by: upprdeck (38.77.26.---)
Date: February 24, 2020 06:52PM
Yeah I did the math wrong.. I saw 13:17 and was thinking time left, since he came in after 31 min..
Re: Zamboni Gig in Toronto has Perks
Posted by: Trotsky (---.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
Date: February 25, 2020 05:26AM
Yes, yes, but the timeline... I could explain further but FFS ugarte find another hobby.ugarte
greg,Trotsky
Not this time. There is no issue of distinct moral clarity this time. This time I was just wrong.ugarte
that's all. only greg was getting upset that his preferred method wasn't being used
Trotsky
... I don't like it but it explains it.
Re: Zamboni Gig in Toronto has Perks
Posted by: ugarte (---.177.169.163.IPYX-102276-ZYO.zip.zayo.com)
Date: February 25, 2020 12:12PM
sorry, my resume already says busting balls and i don't want to revise itTrotsky
Yes, yes, but the timeline... I could explain further but FFS ugarte find another hobby.ugarte
greg,Trotsky
Not this time. There is no issue of distinct moral clarity this time. This time I was just wrong.ugarte
that's all. only greg was getting upset that his preferred method wasn't being used
Trotsky
... I don't like it but it explains it.
___________________________
quality tweets | bluesky (twitter 2) | ALAB Series podcast | Other podcasts and writing
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Re: Zamboni Gig in Toronto has Perks
Posted by: Tom Lento (---.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
Date: February 25, 2020 02:06PM
ursusminor
Swampy
Jim Hyla
ugarte
this is only an incentive to the very dumbest goalieRobb
That gives a rather perverse incentive. You’re winning 3-1, goalie goes down. You come in the game and your team goes up 4-1. You now have an incentive to let the other team score 2, so that your 4th goal becomes the winning goal. Strange.
Who, I suspect, would not be in the league for very long.
What if this goalie plays in Houston? One might think there would be more tolerance for this kind of cheating.
Wait a minute! The rule at the Houston Field House is no different than anywhere else.
Are you sure? I've seen their shot totals....
Re: Zamboni Gig in Toronto has Perks
Posted by: drs48 (---.hsd1.tx.comcast.net)
Date: February 25, 2020 06:36PM
Unfortunately, some of us have relocated to Houston....
Re: Zamboni Gig in Toronto has Perks
Posted by: Swampy (184.170.253.---)
Date: February 25, 2020 10:38PM
drs48
Unfortunately, some of us have relocated to Houston....
Well at least you have barbecue and Gilley’s.
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