Frozen Four
Posted by Jim Hyla
Frozen Four
Posted by: Jim Hyla (---.syrcny.fios.verizon.net)
Date: April 02, 2015 10:44AM
My choice is BU. Although they are a rival, I've always enjoyed watching them, and for some reason they are my favorite HE team.
___________________________
"Cornell Fans Made the Timbers Tremble", Boston Globe, March/1970
Cornell lawyers stopped the candy throwing. Jan/2005
"Cornell Fans Made the Timbers Tremble", Boston Globe, March/1970
Cornell lawyers stopped the candy throwing. Jan/2005
Re: Frozen Four
Posted by: Trotsky (---.dc.dc.cox.net)
Date: April 02, 2015 01:37PM
Man, that's tough. Maybe the toughest choice ever.
I guess... Providence? I guess?
Jeez, I dunno. I thought I could at least kick UNO out, but the idea of the national champion coming from Nebraska is too funny to dismiss casually.
I think this will be one of those times where I figure it out midway through the game, like in the regional in the 90's where I found myself rooting for Harvard even though I thought that was impossible.
I guess... Providence? I guess?
Jeez, I dunno. I thought I could at least kick UNO out, but the idea of the national champion coming from Nebraska is too funny to dismiss casually.
I think this will be one of those times where I figure it out midway through the game, like in the regional in the 90's where I found myself rooting for Harvard even though I thought that was impossible.
Re: Frozen Four
Posted by: gjp84 (---.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
Date: April 02, 2015 02:24PM
Providence - mainly due to fondness for the battles we had with them from '78-81 and admiration for the style of hockey they played then, but not really anything they've done since. Their current team, though, reminds me of their teams from that era. Plus the Jankowski connection; he would have looked good in Red.
Re: Frozen Four
Posted by: RichH (134.223.230.---)
Date: April 02, 2015 02:35PM
Trotsky
Man, that's tough. Maybe the toughest choice ever.
Nah. 2005 all-WCHA. In Ohio. After a bitter OT loss. Bleah. I
I think this will be one of those times where I figure it out midway through the game, like in the regional in the 90's where I found myself rooting for Harvard even though I thought that was impossible.
The heart wants what it wants.
I'll learn what that is come next Thursday, but let's go through the rationalization exercise:
Boston University
Eh. I'm OK with them winning it. They're like our HEA cousin. Our more successful cousin. Their fans are more like us and infinitely more tolerable than BC SuperFans. Uncle Jack no longer behind the bench. Downside: too much Eichel talk.
Providence College
A program that has lurked in the shadows of the HEA powers for so long. I don't know why they don't have more fans (basketball school? Hockey is option 2?). I like Gillies as a player, and there will be more opportunity for 1985 Chris Terreri (and by induction, 1985 RPI) highlights. I've always liked their jerseys. It would piss off Brown
Nebraska-Omaha
Haha, Nebraska. Well, it would be interesting if hockey got a mention in the Lincoln media. I usually want a program to pay its tournament dues before success (which could also apply to PC).
North Dakota
Sigh. Again? Their fans are everywhere. Like Wisconsin's, but indescribably more annoying. Fans will always wear the old logo as if they're fighting for something righteous. Return to the status quo? I hate green mylar wigs.
Eh. I want to see something memorable, like 2009. And I don't really care whose souls and dreams are crushed in the process.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2015 02:42PM by RichH.
Re: Frozen Four
Posted by: marty (---.sub-70-209-139.myvzw.com)
Date: April 02, 2015 02:51PM
Providence with Kevin Sneddon getting an assist for helping them play at home or North Dakota as a kick to the NCAA for making them drop the mascot, because it will be 10 or 20 years before they drop the mascot.
Re: Frozen Four
Posted by: Trotsky (---.dc.dc.cox.net)
Date: April 02, 2015 03:13PM
They're never really dropping it. It's their green barchetta.marty
North Dakota as a kick to the NCAA for making them drop the mascot, because it will be 10 or 20 years before they drop the mascot.
I love how they talk about the "no name" and then pan the crowd and 100% of the fans are still wearing it.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2015 03:14PM by Trotsky.
Re: Frozen Four
Posted by: Dafatone (---.pols.usd.edu)
Date: April 02, 2015 04:08PM
Trotsky
They're never really dropping it. It's their green barchetta.marty
North Dakota as a kick to the NCAA for making them drop the mascot, because it will be 10 or 20 years before they drop the mascot.
I love how they talk about the "no name" and then pan the crowd and 100% of the fans are still wearing it.
You know how some states have strange logos for their state highways? They still use a silhoutte of a similar headress thing on all their highway signs.
Re: Frozen Four
Posted by: Jeff Hopkins '82 (204.27.156.---)
Date: April 02, 2015 04:17PM
I still remember when we played BU as a real rival. Can't root for them.
I don't really have much against UNO or UND. But the concept of the NCHC rubs me the wrong way. Every other conference is regional and they're "National." A little self-important, IMO.
So, Providence by default.
But part of me also wants to see all of the Sioux uniforms in the crowd, just to thumb their noses at the NC$$. So let's make it a PC vs non-PC final.
I don't really have much against UNO or UND. But the concept of the NCHC rubs me the wrong way. Every other conference is regional and they're "National." A little self-important, IMO.
So, Providence by default.
But part of me also wants to see all of the Sioux uniforms in the crowd, just to thumb their noses at the NC$$. So let's make it a PC vs non-PC final.
Re: Frozen Four
Posted by: scoop85 (---.nyc.biz.rr.com)
Date: April 02, 2015 04:27PM
Providence by process of elimination
Re: Frozen Four
Posted by: Scersk '97 (---.hsd1.ct.comcast.net)
Date: April 02, 2015 04:31PM
Dafatone
Trotsky
They're never really dropping it. It's their green barchetta.marty
North Dakota as a kick to the NCAA for making them drop the mascot, because it will be 10 or 20 years before they drop the mascot.
I love how they talk about the "no name" and then pan the crowd and 100% of the fans are still wearing it.
You know how some states have strange logos for their state highways? They still use a silhoutte of a similar headress thing on all their highway signs.
What, you mean like this?
Re: Frozen Four
Posted by: Trotsky (---.dc.dc.cox.net)
Date: April 02, 2015 04:35PM
Their state highway signs are awesome.Scersk '97
Dafatone
Trotsky
They're never really dropping it. It's their green barchetta.marty
North Dakota as a kick to the NCAA for making them drop the mascot, because it will be 10 or 20 years before they drop the mascot.
I love how they talk about the "no name" and then pan the crowd and 100% of the fans are still wearing it.
You know how some states have strange logos for their state highways? They still use a silhoutte of a similar headress thing on all their highway signs.
What, you mean like this?
Re: Frozen Four
Posted by: Dafatone (---.pols.usd.edu)
Date: April 02, 2015 05:05PM
Trotsky
Their state highway signs are awesome.Scersk '97
Dafatone
Trotsky
They're never really dropping it. It's their green barchetta.marty
North Dakota as a kick to the NCAA for making them drop the mascot, because it will be 10 or 20 years before they drop the mascot.
I love how they talk about the "no name" and then pan the crowd and 100% of the fans are still wearing it.
You know how some states have strange logos for their state highways? They still use a silhoutte of a similar headress thing on all their highway signs.
What, you mean like this?
It may seem like a meaningless designation, but keeping headdresses out of these things is relatively important, from what I understand. So, somehow, the Southern Tier Expressway sign is better. Slightly.
Re: Frozen Four
Posted by: ACM (---.twcny.res.rr.com)
Date: April 02, 2015 08:28PM
For me, the hierarchy is pretty clear:
BU - Brian Kelley, BU's AAD for Communications, is an IC grad, and a former assistant director of athletic communications at Cornell, and an all-around good guy who I'd be happy to have associated with a national championship. And it's the only chance we'll have next year to knock off the defending national champions, when we play BU at the Garden.
Providence - Len Jankowski, Mark Jankowski's dad, played at Cornell. Nate Leaman is a former ECAC coach, a former Spencer Penrose winner as national coach-of-the year, and a two-time winner of ECAC coach-of-the year.
UNO - we played them earlier in the season, so if they win, we have a chance to move from like 33rd to 32nd in KVETCH or Crotch, or whatever your favorite metric for ranking mediocre teams is.
UND - nothing whatsoever.
BU - Brian Kelley, BU's AAD for Communications, is an IC grad, and a former assistant director of athletic communications at Cornell, and an all-around good guy who I'd be happy to have associated with a national championship. And it's the only chance we'll have next year to knock off the defending national champions, when we play BU at the Garden.
Providence - Len Jankowski, Mark Jankowski's dad, played at Cornell. Nate Leaman is a former ECAC coach, a former Spencer Penrose winner as national coach-of-the year, and a two-time winner of ECAC coach-of-the year.
UNO - we played them earlier in the season, so if they win, we have a chance to move from like 33rd to 32nd in KVETCH or Crotch, or whatever your favorite metric for ranking mediocre teams is.
UND - nothing whatsoever.
Re: Frozen Four
Posted by: Bahnstorm (---.twcny.res.rr.com)
Date: April 04, 2015 10:41PM
ACM
For me, the hierarchy is pretty clear:
BU - Brian Kelley, BU's AAD for Communications, is an IC grad, and a former assistant director of athletic communications at Cornell, and an all-around good guy who I'd be happy to have associated with a national championship. And it's the only chance we'll have next year to knock off the defending national champions, when we play BU at the Garden.
Providence - Len Jankowski, Mark Jankowski's dad, played at Cornell. Nate Leaman is a former ECAC coach, a former Spencer Penrose winner as national coach-of-the year, and a two-time winner of ECAC coach-of-the year.
UNO - we played them earlier in the season, so if they win, we have a chance to move from like 33rd to 32nd in KVETCH or Crotch, or whatever your favorite metric for ranking mediocre teams is.
UND - nothing whatsoever.
That is pretty much my feelings on this one right down the line, particularly the UND part. I have perhaps the added incentive (for household harmony) to pull for BU as the significant other is a BU hockey fan and BU alum first followed by CU fan and CU alum later. (Though the degrees in the house are still 4-2 CU to BU, the Red Hot hockey game has been contentious) Mostly I just want exciting games.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2015 12:53PM by Bahnstorm.
Re: Frozen Four
Posted by: billhoward (---.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
Date: April 08, 2015 09:32PM
I'm rooting for BU on account of our son is one of the penalty box doorkeepers there, a paying job for students where at Cornell the same job is done by an associate vice president. I'm rooting for BU or Providence because I'd like to see the East win 4 in a row and 7 of the last 8. So much for that western supremacy crap (10 of 12) preceding the East's 2008-2014 run.
Re: Frozen Four
Posted by: Trotsky (---.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
Date: April 08, 2015 10:32PM
Seems about right.billhoward
where at Cornell the same job is done by an associate vice president.
Re: Frozen Four
Posted by: ACM (---.twcny.res.rr.com)
Date: April 09, 2015 10:17AM
billhoward
... where at Cornell the same job is done by an associate vice president.
Not since 2009.
Re: Frozen Four
Posted by: Beeeej (Moderator)
Date: April 09, 2015 10:52AM
Trotsky
They're never really dropping it. It's their green barchetta.marty
North Dakota as a kick to the NCAA for making them drop the mascot, because it will be 10 or 20 years before they drop the mascot.
I love how they talk about the "no name" and then pan the crowd and 100% of the fans are still wearing it.
I would've put the estimate at closer to 115%.
___________________________
Beeeej, Esq.
"Cornell isn't an organization. It's a loose affiliation of independent fiefdoms united by a common hockey team."
- Steve Worona
Beeeej, Esq.
"Cornell isn't an organization. It's a loose affiliation of independent fiefdoms united by a common hockey team."
- Steve Worona
Re: Frozen Four
Posted by: Chuck Henderson (---.twcny.res.rr.com)
Date: April 09, 2015 08:58PM
I've never been bothered by BU's winning in recent times. They are/were a big rival but a good one. The relationship Arthur mentions also counts a little. UNO seems so irrelevant to Cornell in terms of recruiting that I don't care; holding our own against them this season is a slight plus if they win. UND wins so much that it doesn't change anything if they win again. I've never liked Providence.
While those Providence teams had some good players (Korn), I always thought they were the epitome of a clutch and grab team for that era.
gjp84
Providence - mainly due to fondness for the battles we had with them from '78-81 and admiration for the style of hockey they played then, but not really anything they've done since.
While those Providence teams had some good players (Korn), I always thought they were the epitome of a clutch and grab team for that era.
___________________________
Chuck Henderson '64
Chuck Henderson '64
Re: Frozen Four
Posted by: Dafatone (64.122.145.---)
Date: April 10, 2015 01:17AM
Man was it nice to see UND lose.
I don't really care too much between BU and Providence. I would have liked to see UNO win, but I wasn't exactly invested.
I don't really care too much between BU and Providence. I would have liked to see UNO win, but I wasn't exactly invested.
Re: Frozen Four
Posted by: Trotsky (---.dc.dc.cox.net)
Date: April 10, 2015 09:21AM
With an all-East final, this will be the first string of 4 consecutive East champions in history.
Re: Frozen Four - BU 5, ND 3
Posted by: billhoward (---.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
Date: April 10, 2015 10:21AM
Shades of 1973 NCAA semifinal in old Boston Garden: Cornell up by 3 in the third period on Wisconsin, Wisconsin chips away and gets it to 5-4 late. Where Jack Eichel last night sank the empty netter to keep ND from tying, Cornell gave up the tying goal and then lost 6-5 in OT. Saddest Cornell game I saw until Syracuse-Cornell lax in 2009.
Re: Frozen Four - "students come last" ticket allocations
Posted by: billhoward (---.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
Date: April 10, 2015 10:26AM
USCHO on more lip service to the NCAA being for and about students and student athletes. [www.uscho.com]
Brian Sullivan, USCHO
BOSTON — There are 17,565 sellable seats for each hockey game at Boston’s TD Garden. The Bruins tend to fill them all, and the NCAA was pleased to put a body on every cushion this weekend as well. Yet, with a capacity greater than the total undergraduate enrollment at any of the four participating schools, fewer than 400 of those 17,565 tickets — 2.3 percent — ever made their way to actual students.
Re: Frozen Four - BU 5, ND 3
Posted by: Trotsky (---.dc.dc.cox.net)
Date: April 10, 2015 10:41AM
This is the closest I can come up with to an analogy since 1981. It was the second game of a best-of-two where the first game was tied in virtually identical fashion with the roles reversed. The stakes, of course, were far lower.billhoward
Shades of 1973 NCAA semifinal in old Boston Garden: Cornell up by 3 in the third period on Wisconsin, Wisconsin chips away and gets it to 5-4 late. Where Jack Eichel last night sank the empty netter to keep ND from tying, Cornell gave up the tying goal and then lost 6-5 in OT. Saddest Cornell game I saw until Syracuse-Cornell lax in 2009.
Re: Frozen Four
Posted by: BMac (72.22.181.---)
Date: April 10, 2015 11:03AM
The UNO-Providence game was merely ok, but made better by sitting right in front of the PC band.
BU-NoDak was a great game. My BU friends were super surprised at coming out strong in the first, then biting their nails for the third period. Exact opposite of every other BU game this year, where they've been flat in the first and strong in the third.
My first Frozen Four was a fun experience- wish I'd known to wear my Cornell jersey. Had a lot of fun playing hockey-school bingo in my head (finding one of every school). I even found the Harvard fan.
BU-NoDak was a great game. My BU friends were super surprised at coming out strong in the first, then biting their nails for the third period. Exact opposite of every other BU game this year, where they've been flat in the first and strong in the third.
My first Frozen Four was a fun experience- wish I'd known to wear my Cornell jersey. Had a lot of fun playing hockey-school bingo in my head (finding one of every school). I even found the Harvard fan.
Re: Frozen Four
Posted by: billhoward (---.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
Date: April 10, 2015 11:27AM
Frozen Four is one place where it's nice, a gathering of all the hockey faithful, and you don't get harrassed for wearing your team's jersey.BMac
My first Frozen Four was a fun experience- wish I'd known to wear my Cornell jersey. Had a lot of fun playing hockey-school bingo in my head (finding one of every school). I even found the Harvard fan.
Did you sense there were not many students from the four schools in the arena? The USCHO said very few tickets were allocated for students, though students could buy in through other means. On TV you could closeups of all-UND cheering section(s) or BU.
Re: Frozen Four
Posted by: BMac (72.22.181.---)
Date: April 10, 2015 12:55PM
Yeah, the student sections were pretty thin. BU had a whole section on the balcony that looked about the same size as their section for the HEA semis, but smaller than what you'd see at Agganis.
UNO had a band and some cheerleaders. I heard that they brought three buses from Omaha full of students. $250 for travel, hotel and tickets. I can't imagine that ride back.
PC had really small representation. I did love their goal celebration: "Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes!" Apparently it's some WWE thing.
NoDak travels welllll. I was impressed with their huge section down below. A TON of people, and real loud. Plus their band was impressively loud and mean. I... liked them? One funny observation: the adults below would start "Let's Go Sioux" cheers all the time; the band never ever said the word "Sioux." I wonder if they've been gagged. They really should just change it to the "Fighting Susans."
UNO had a band and some cheerleaders. I heard that they brought three buses from Omaha full of students. $250 for travel, hotel and tickets. I can't imagine that ride back.
PC had really small representation. I did love their goal celebration: "Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes!" Apparently it's some WWE thing.
NoDak travels welllll. I was impressed with their huge section down below. A TON of people, and real loud. Plus their band was impressively loud and mean. I... liked them? One funny observation: the adults below would start "Let's Go Sioux" cheers all the time; the band never ever said the word "Sioux." I wonder if they've been gagged. They really should just change it to the "Fighting Susans."
Re: Frozen Four
Posted by: Trotsky (---.dc.dc.cox.net)
Date: April 10, 2015 01:04PM
Wisco refers to them as "the Fighting Snot."BMac
They really should just change it to the "Fighting Susans."
Re: Frozen Four
Posted by: Al DeFlorio (---.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
Date: April 10, 2015 02:45PM
And seven of the last eight. Real progress from three of the first 22 (with two of those three Ned's).Trotsky
With an all-East final, this will be the first string of 4 consecutive East champions in history.
___________________________
Al DeFlorio '65
Al DeFlorio '65
Re: Frozen Four
Posted by: tominvb (---.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)
Date: April 11, 2015 09:07AM
That 73 semi versus Wisconsin still sticks in my craw. Up by 3 and Coach Bertrand leaves the first line in 6 plus minutes of the last 8. Hate Bertrand - Hate Wisconsin. Did enjoy beating them up in Jaxs a few years ago in the March Madness tournement.
Better Days are coming as they say. Enjoy the summer folks.
Tom in Vero
Better Days are coming as they say. Enjoy the summer folks.
Tom in Vero
Re: Frozen Four
Posted by: RichH (---.hsd1.ct.comcast.net)
Date: April 11, 2015 10:52AM
One of the more personally depressing things is the order the school championship banners are hung in the arena. Every other year, they've gone alphabetical, and we've enjoyed a nice spot around center-ice. This year, they're in order of most recent championship.
Thank goodness for Colorado College.
Thank goodness for Colorado College.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/11/2015 10:53AM by RichH.
Re: Frozen Four
Posted by: billhoward (---.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
Date: April 11, 2015 06:58PM
I still recall how bleeping hot, steamy hot, the arena was. Also, at the time the press box was at the very front edge of the balcony. When fans stamped, the upper deck moved, especially the unattached edge. You could see whitecaps in the coffee. You gotta admit Wisconsin fans were every bit as insanely passionate about hockey as we were. The year before, virtually every fan showed up to root for Wisconsin over Denver (the team we demolished 7-2 before running into the BU buzzsaw the second week in a row in Boston Garden) in the consolation game. Yes, there were consolation games, and the last five minutes Wisconsin fans played a looping tape: "Best in the West! [stomp feet]"tominvb
That 73 semi versus Wisconsin still sticks in my craw. Up by 3 and Coach Bertrand leaves the first line in 6 plus minutes of the last 8. Hate Bertrand - Hate Wisconsin. Did enjoy beating them up in Jaxs a few years ago in the March Madness tournement.
Better Days are coming as they say. Enjoy the summer folks.
Tom in Vero
I am about to don a Cornell jersey to watch the game and hear the dulcet tones of Barry Melrose. Rooting for BU since it'll be all the sweeter if we can unbuckle the championship belt from them in MSG next Thanksgiving.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/11/2015 07:00PM by billhoward.
Re: Frozen Four
Posted by: Iceberg (---.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
Date: April 11, 2015 10:07PM
This game has gotten very...interesting.
Re: Frozen Four
Posted by: Trotsky (---.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
Date: April 11, 2015 10:21PM
Congratulations to Providence on their first national championship.
Re: Frozen Four - Providence 4 BU 3
Posted by: billhoward (---.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
Date: April 11, 2015 10:28PM
Sympathies to Bill Buckner's son in goal at the other end.Trotsky
Congratulations to Providence on their first national championship.
Re: Frozen Four
Posted by: ugarte (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: April 11, 2015 10:34PM
Just. Get. In.
___________________________
quality tweets | bluesky (twitter 2) | ALAB Series podcast | Other podcasts and writing
quality tweets | bluesky (twitter 2) | ALAB Series podcast | Other podcasts and writing
Re: Frozen Four
Posted by: Trotsky (---.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
Date: April 11, 2015 10:44PM
Boy, I'll say. That's 2 of the last 3 where a team barely scraped in and then got hot.ugarte
Just. Get. In.
I wonder if Nate Leaman would like another challenge..?
Re: Frozen Four
Posted by: Give My Regards (---.twcny.res.rr.com)
Date: April 11, 2015 10:49PM
Providence wins their first NCAA championship, the third first-time winner in a row after Yale in 2013 and Union last year. This is the first time there have been three consecutive first-time championship winners since Michigan, Boston College, and Colorado College turned the trick in 1948-50, which were the first three NCAA championships played.
___________________________
If you lead a good life, go to Sunday school and church, and say your prayers every night, when you die, you'll go to LYNAH!
If you lead a good life, go to Sunday school and church, and say your prayers every night, when you die, you'll go to LYNAH!
Re: Frozen Four
Posted by: Swampy (---.ri.ri.cox.net)
Date: April 12, 2015 12:24AM
BMac
Ha, I made the exact same post on facebook, down to the "thank goodness for CC"
Here's the pic for everyone else's commiseration
[imgur.com]
Gawd! Cornell hockey's national dominance is becoming almost as antiquarian as Cornell football's.
Re: Frozen Four
Posted by: Swampy (---.ri.ri.cox.net)
Date: April 12, 2015 12:29AM
Trotsky
Boy, I'll say. That's 2 of the last 3 where a team barely scraped in and then got hot.ugarte
Just. Get. In.
I wonder if Nate Leaman would like another challenge..?
If not him, the Associate Coach Miller apparently played a major role in PC's ascension and at Denver before that.
Re: Frozen Four
Posted by: BearLover (---.wrls.harvard.edu)
Date: April 12, 2015 02:33AM
If only the ECAC still sucked...ugarte
Just. Get. In.
Re: Frozen Four
Posted by: Al DeFlorio (---.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
Date: April 12, 2015 04:28AM
Utter nonsense.BearLover
If only the ECAC still sucked...ugarte
Just. Get. In.
___________________________
Al DeFlorio '65
Al DeFlorio '65
Re: Frozen Four
Posted by: jtwcornell91 (Moderator)
Date: April 12, 2015 04:45AM
Yeah, I haven't checked but I'm pretty sure the title has never been won by a team that needed an auto bid to qualify since they went to 16 (probably 12 and maybe even 8) teams.Al DeFlorio
Utter nonsense.BearLover
If only the ECAC still sucked...ugarte
Just. Get. In.
Re: Frozen Four
Posted by: BMac (---.mycingular.net)
Date: April 12, 2015 10:21AM
Good picture, but this one's even better:
Re: Frozen Four
Posted by: BMac (---.mycingular.net)
Date: April 12, 2015 10:42AM
Speaking of luck: Trevor Mingoia transferred from Union to PC, watched his teammates win the championship, and yesterday got to win his own.
[www.bostonherald.com]
[www.bostonherald.com]
Re: Frozen Four
Posted by: BearLover (---.wrls.harvard.edu)
Date: April 12, 2015 01:16PM
Cornell almost never needed an auto bid to qualify when the ECAC sucked. (Only in '96 and '97, right?)jtwcornell91
Yeah, I haven't checked but I'm pretty sure the title has never been won by a team that needed an auto bid to qualify since they went to 16 (probably 12 and maybe even 8) teams.Al DeFlorio
Utter nonsense.BearLover
If only the ECAC still sucked...ugarte
Just. Get. In.
And y'all can think whatever you want, and let's not have this discussion again, but I've seen nothing good for Cornell come from the ECAC's improvement. Objectively, they've been winning less games and making the tournament less--that much is not debatable.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/12/2015 01:19PM by BearLover.
Re: Frozen Four
Posted by: RichH (---.hsd1.ct.comcast.net)
Date: April 12, 2015 02:21PM
BearLover
And y'all can think whatever you want,
Ugh. I hate the word "y'all" and it's explosion in educated social media circles. Stop with the folksy.
and let's not have this discussion again,
Hahaha, good one. You do know where you're posting, right? But I agree, this argument is really tired, especially when it's 2 vs. everybody else.
but I've seen nothing good for Cornell come from the ECAC's improvement. Objectively, they've been winning less games and making the tournament less--that much is not debatable.
I tend to respect your opinion, after a lot of thought, and I even think you even make solid points with this quixotic mission. But I don't agree. Two things keep bringing me back: recruiting and SOS. The league had been trending to being lumped in with the MAAC/AHA as a minor conference. Teams like Denver, North Dakota, and Michigan State...would they want to waste their trips East on a league that has a pedigree on par with Sacred Heart and AIC? Would top recruits want to look at schools that are viewed as the analogue of Holy Cross or a BC-level schedule?
The ECAC was a punchline. Now, it's relevant in the national conversation. That only attracts better talent and better opponents to Cornell.
Do you think BU, Providence, North Dakota, and UNO were unhappy they all had to play in strong conferences? Were they successful because of the competition they faced, or in spite of it?
Time travel to 1977 or 1989 or 2000 and your comment about "winning (fewer) games and making the tournament less" also holds, but the conference was just as strong as when Cornell WAS winning. Your argument isn't passing the causality test with me.
Re: Frozen Four
Posted by: Kyle Rose (---.c3-0.smr-ubr2.sbo-smr.ma.static.cable.rcn.com)
Date: April 12, 2015 08:19PM
Re: Frozen Four
Posted by: redice (---.stny.res.rr.com)
Date: April 12, 2015 08:48PM
I'll say this about the FF: The BU fans were a disgrace!! Going into the FF, one would consider them the local team. That's not how the crowd noise made it seem from within the arena. If the BU fans came to the TD Garden to sit on their hands, rather than cheer their team on to victory, why didn't they just stay home. Were Cornell in the tournement, the Lynah Faithful would have easily screamed this lame BU bunch into oblivion. The PC fans were wonderful!!
___________________________
"If a player won't go in the corners, he might as well take up checkers."
-Ned Harkness
"If a player won't go in the corners, he might as well take up checkers."
-Ned Harkness
Re: Frozen Four
Posted by: Chris '03 (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: April 12, 2015 09:18PM
redice
I'll say this about the FF: The BU fans were a disgrace!! Going into the FF, one would consider them the local team. That's not how the crowd noise made it seem from within the arena. If the BU fans came to the TD Garden to sit on their hands, rather than cheer their team on to victory, why didn't they just stay home. Were Cornell in the tournement, the Lynah Faithful would have easily screamed this lame BU bunch into oblivion. The PC fans were wonderful!!
The building was probably 50/50 with everyone but BU partisans pulling for PC.
For what it's worth, I remember being underwhelmed by the Cornell fans at the '03 FF. It's hard to be cohesive in that setting.
___________________________
"Mark Mazzoleni looks like a guy whose dog just died out there..."
"Mark Mazzoleni looks like a guy whose dog just died out there..."
Re: Frozen Four
Posted by: jtwcornell91 (Moderator)
Date: April 13, 2015 09:21AM
BearLover
Cornell almost never needed an auto bid to qualify when the ECAC sucked. (Only in '96 and '97, right?)jtwcornell91
Yeah, I haven't checked but I'm pretty sure the title has never been won by a team that needed an auto bid to qualify since they went to 16 (probably 12 and maybe even 8) teams.Al DeFlorio
Utter nonsense.BearLover
If only the ECAC still sucked...ugarte
Just. Get. In.
I went back and checked. Cornell needed the auto bid to qualify in 1996 (they were #13 in the PWR with #6 Maine ineligible, but #18 Providence won Hockey East so #12 Bowling Green was the last team out), but not in 1997, when they were tied for #8, with #7 Maine ineligible. But Cornell didn't come close to winning it all either of those years. The point here is that 2013 Yale and 2015 Providence managed to make the tournament at #15 (last at-large bid) and win the title, but they didn't qualify by winning a weak conference. Compare 2010 RIT at #25 and 2009 Bemidji State at #26, who only made the tournament because of their auto-bids, and ended up in the Frozen Four.
1996 Pairwise Comparisons 1 Boston Univ 18 .621 CCMiLSMnMeWMVtMSCkMLBGCrDUSLCgNDPvMD 2 CO College 17 .615 __ MiLSMnMeWMVtMSCkMLBGCrDUSLCgNDPvMD 3 Michigan 16 .616 ____ LSMnMeWMVtMSCkMLBGCrDUSLCgNDPvMD 4 Lake Superior 15 .605 ______ MnMeWMVtMSCkMLBGCrDUSLCgNDPvMD 5 Minnesota 14 .603 ________ MeWMVtMSCkMLBGCrDUSLCgNDPvMD 6 Maine 11 .598 __________ WM__MS__MLBGCrDUSLCgNDPvMD 7 Western Mich 11 .582 ____________ VtMSCk__BGCrDUSLCgNDPvMD 8 Vermont 11 .581 __________Me__ __CkMLBGCrDUSLCgNDPvMD 9 Mich State 10 .582 ______________Vt Ck__BGCrDUSLCgNDPvMD 10 Clarkson 10 .576 __________Me______ MLBGCrDUSLCgNDPvMD 11 Mass-Lowell 10 .569 ____________WM__MS__ BGCrDUSLCgNDPvMD 12 Bowling Green 7 .560 ______________________ CrDUSLCgNDPvMD 13 Cornell 6 .558 ________________________ DUSLCgNDPvMD 14 Denver U 4 .541 __________________________ SLCgND__MD 15 St Lawrence 4 .535 ____________________________ CgNDPvMD 16 Colgate 3 .522 ______________________________ NDPvMD 17 North Dakota 2 .494 ________________________________ PvMD 18 Providence 2 .549 __________________________DU______ MD 19 Minn-Duluth 0 .502 ____________________________________ 1997 Pairwise Comparisons 1 Michigan 20 .628 CkNDMnBUNHMeCrVtMmDUMSCCRPSCUnPnMDCgBGLS 2 Clarkson 19 .599 __ NDMnBUNHMeCrVtMmDUMSCCRPSCUnPnMDCgBGLS 3 North Dakota 18 .588 ____ MnBUNHMeCrVtMmDUMSCCRPSCUnPnMDCgBGLS 4 Minnesota 16 .581 ______ BU__MeCrVtMmDUMSCCRPSCUnPnMDCgBGLS 5 Boston Univ 15 .578 ________ NH__CrVtMmDUMSCCRPSCUnPnMDCgBGLS 6 New Hampshire 15 .592 ______Mn__ MeCr__MmDUMSCCRPSCUnPnMDCgBGLS 7 Maine 14 .565 ________BU__ __VtMmDUMSCCRPSCUnPnMDCgBGLS 8 Cornell 13 .567 ____________Me Vt__DUMSCCRPSCUnPnMDCgBGLS 9 Vermont 13 .578 __________NH____ MmDUMSCCRPSCUnPnMDCgBGLS 10 Miami 11 .577 ______________Cr__ __MSCCRPSCUnPnMDCgBGLS 11 Denver U 10 .554 __________________Mm MS__RPSCUnPnMDCgBGLS 12 Mich State 9 .548 ______________________ CCRPSCUnPnMDCgBGLS 13 CO College 9 .557 ____________________DU__ RPSCUnPnMDCgBGLS 14 RPI 7 .538 __________________________ SCUnPnMDCgBGLS 15 St Cloud 6 .540 ____________________________ UnPnMDCgBGLS 16 Union 5 .522 ______________________________ PnMDCgBGLS 17 Princeton 4 .535 ________________________________ MDCgBGLS 18 Minn-Duluth 2 .500 __________________________________ CgBG__ 19 Colgate 2 .513 ____________________________________ BGLS 20 Bowling Green 1 .494 ______________________________________ LS 21 Lake Superior 1 .525 __________________________________MD____
Re: Frozen Four
Posted by: jkahn (---.whitingcorp.com)
Date: April 13, 2015 10:48AM
ACM
For me, the hierarchy is pretty clear:
BU - Brian Kelley, BU's AAD for Communications, is an IC grad, and a former assistant director of athletic communications at Cornell, and an all-around good guy who I'd be happy to have associated with a national championship. And it's the only chance we'll have next year to knock off the defending national champions, when we play BU at the Garden.
We will have a chance to knock off the champions. We open the Florida tournament with Providence.
___________________________
Jeff Kahn '70 '72
Jeff Kahn '70 '72
Re: Frozen Four
Posted by: Jim Hyla (---.syrcny.fios.verizon.net)
Date: April 15, 2015 07:29AM
Oops, slight, what'll happen with PU?
___________________________
"Cornell Fans Made the Timbers Tremble", Boston Globe, March/1970
Cornell lawyers stopped the candy throwing. Jan/2005
"Cornell Fans Made the Timbers Tremble", Boston Globe, March/1970
Cornell lawyers stopped the candy throwing. Jan/2005
Re: Frozen Four
Posted by: RichH (134.223.230.---)
Date: April 15, 2015 04:29PM
Jim Hyla
Oops, slight, what'll happen with PU?
I assume you mean PC.
Somebody commented that the BU team didn't go to the White House for their 2009 championship, and they won it in Washington DC. I've never really paid any attention to this perk, so I have no idea if it's standard or not for the hockey champions to get an invite.
Re: Frozen Four
Posted by: Scersk '97 (---.hsd1.ct.comcast.net)
Date: April 15, 2015 04:45PM
jtwcornell91
I went back and checked [the PWR for '96 and '97].
Speaking of which, I've been meaning to ask: how did you come up with those? If you recalculated them, did you happen to run a KRACH for those years? Always have been very curious as to how strong the league was in those days. It certainly seemed strong.
Re: Frozen Four
Posted by: jtwcornell91 (Moderator)
Date: April 15, 2015 05:41PM
Scersk '97
jtwcornell91
I went back and checked [the PWR for '96 and '97].
Speaking of which, I've been meaning to ask: how did you come up with those? If you recalculated them, did you happen to run a KRACH for those years? Always have been very curious as to how strong the league was in those days. It certainly seemed strong.
I had to re-run the 1996 pairwise, since I had the script lying around but not the output. Here's the KRACH file I have for 1996
1 CO College 37.11- 4.89-11 .804 0.00000 -0.00000 2 Michigan 35.05- 6.95-11 .765 0.00000 0.00000 3 Minnesota 34.99- 7.01-11 .764 0.00000 0.00000 4 Lake Superior 34.21- 7.79-11 .749 -0.00000 0.00000 5 Boston Univ 31.71-10.29-11 .702 0.00000 0.00000 6 Mich State 31.55-10.45-11 .699 -0.00000 0.00000 7 Western Mich 31.22-10.78-11 .693 0.00000 0.00000 8 Denver U 30.34-11.66-11 .676 -0.00000 0.00000 9 Maine 29.02-12.98-11 .651 0.00000 -0.00000 10 Bowling Green 28.87-13.13-11 .649 0.00000 0.00000 11 Vermont 27.70-14.30-11 .626 -0.00000 0.00000 12 Minn-Duluth 27.17-14.83-11 .617 0.00000 -0.00000 13 Michigan Tech 26.90-15.10-11 .611 0.00000 0.00000 14 Mass-Lowell 26.83-15.17-11 .610 -0.00000 0.00000 15 North Dakota 26.80-15.20-11 .609 0.00000 0.00000 16 Clarkson 26.46-15.54-11 .603 0.00000 0.00000 17 Wisconsin 26.10-15.90-11 .596 0.00000 0.00000 18 Providence 24.07-17.93-11 .558 0.00000 -0.00000 19 St Cloud 24.02-17.98-11 .557 0.00000 0.00000 20 Cornell 24.01-17.99-11 .557 0.00000 0.00000 21 St Lawrence 22.20-19.80-11 .523 0.00000 -0.00000 22 AK-Anchorage 21.28-20.72-11 .505 0.00000 0.00000 23 Boston Coll 20.78-21.22-11 .496 0.00000 0.00000 24 Miami 19.95-22.05-11 .480 0.00000 -0.00000 25 Colgate 19.58-22.42-11 .473 0.00000 0.00000 26 Ferris State 18.75-23.25-11 .458 0.00000 0.00000 27 New Hampshire 18.34-23.66-11 .450 0.00000 0.00000 28 Ohio State 18.21-23.79-11 .447 0.00000 -0.00000 29 Notre Dame 17.25-24.75-11 .429 0.00000 -0.00000 30 Northern Mich 16.28-25.72-11 .411 -0.00000 0.00000 31 AK-Fairbanks 14.72-27.28-11 .382 0.00000 -0.00000 32 Mass-Amherst 14.44-27.56-11 .376 0.00000 -0.00000 33 Northeastern 14.21-27.79-11 .372 0.00000 0.00000 34 Harvard 13.14-28.86-11 .352 -0.00000 0.00000 35 Brown 11.24-30.76-11 .316 -0.00000 0.00000 36 Merrimack 11.02-30.98-11 .312 -0.00000 0.00000 37 RPI 9.13-32.87-11 .276 0.00000 0.00000 38 Dartmouth 8.70-33.30-11 .268 0.00000 0.00000 39 Army 7.97-34.03-11 .254 -0.00000 0.00000 40 Princeton 7.79-34.21-11 .251 0.00000 0.00000 41 Union 7.34-34.66-11 .242 -0.00000 -0.00000 42 Yale 5.03-36.97-11 .199 0.00000 0.00000 43 Air Force 1.55-40.45-11 .133 -0.00000 0.00000 CMMLBMWDMBVMMMNCWPSCSABMCFNONNAMNHBMRDAPUYA Team KRACH RRWP CinSUSMUeGtDTLDkivCrLACmgSHStMkAEanrParnnaF CO College 1142 .804 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michigan 733.9 .765 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Minnesota 725.3 .764 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Lake Superior 627.2 .749 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Boston Univ 415.0 .702 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Mich State 405.2 .699 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Western Mich 385.2 .693 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Denver U 338.6 .676 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Maine 281.1 .651 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Bowling Green 275.5 .649 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Vermont 234.8 .626 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Minn-Duluth 219.2 .617 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michigan Tech 211.3 .611 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Mass-Lowell 209.4 .610 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ North Dakota 208.6 .609 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Clarkson 199.5 .603 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Wisconsin 190.5 .596 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Providence 147.0 .558 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ St Cloud 146.0 .557 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Cornell 145.9 .557 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ St Lawrence 116.2 .523 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ AK-Anchorage 103.5 .505 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Boston Coll 97.22 .496 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Miami 87.59 .480 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Colgate 83.55 .473 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ferris State 75.22 .458 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ New Hampshire 71.37 .450 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ohio State 70.22 .447 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Notre Dame 61.96 .429 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Northern Mich 54.50 .411 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ AK-Fairbanks 44.11 .382 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Mass-Amherst 42.43 .376 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Northeastern 41.09 .372 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Harvard 35.20 .352 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Brown 26.43 .316 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Merrimack 25.52 .312 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ RPI 18.54 .276 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dartmouth 17.17 .268 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Army 14.95 .254 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Princeton 14.44 .251 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Union 13.19 .242 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Yale 7.745 .199 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Air Force 2.059 .133 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ AA AA ~ Group AA Group 1: Ratings and intra-group HHWPs: RRWP KRACH CC Mi Mn LS BU MS WM DU Me BG Vt MD MT ML ND Ck Wi Pv SC Cr SL AA BC Mm Cg FS NH OS Nt NM Ak MA NE Ha Bn Mr RP Da Ar Pn Un Ya AF CO College .804 1142 .--- .609 .611 .645 .733 .738 .748 .771 .802 .806 .829 .839 .844 .845 .846 .851 .857 .886 .887 .887 .908 .917 .922 .929 .932 .938 .941 .942 .949 .954 .963 .964 .965 .970 .977 .978 .984 .985 .987 .988 .989 .993 .998 Michigan .765 733.9 .391 .--- .503 .539 .639 .644 .656 .684 .723 .727 .758 .770 .776 .778 .779 .786 .794 .833 .834 .834 .863 .876 .883 .893 .898 .907 .911 .913 .922 .931 .943 .945 .947 .954 .965 .966 .975 .977 .980 .981 .982 .990 .997 Minnesota .764 725.3 .389 .497 .--- .536 .636 .642 .653 .682 .721 .725 .755 .768 .774 .776 .777 .784 .792 .831 .832 .832 .862 .875 .882 .892 .897 .906 .910 .912 .921 .930 .943 .945 .946 .954 .965 .966 .975 .977 .980 .980 .982 .989 .997 Lake Superior .749 627.2 .355 .461 .464 .--- .602 .608 .620 .649 .691 .695 .728 .741 .748 .750 .750 .759 .767 .810 .811 .811 .844 .858 .866 .877 .882 .893 .898 .899 .910 .920 .934 .937 .939 .947 .960 .961 .971 .973 .977 .977 .979 .988 .997 Boston Univ .702 415.0 .267 .361 .364 .398 .--- .506 .519 .551 .596 .601 .639 .654 .663 .665 .665 .675 .685 .738 .740 .740 .781 .800 .810 .826 .832 .847 .853 .855 .870 .884 .904 .907 .910 .922 .940 .942 .957 .960 .965 .966 .969 .982 .995 Mich State .699 405.2 .262 .356 .358 .392 .494 .--- .513 .545 .590 .595 .633 .649 .657 .659 .660 .670 .680 .734 .735 .735 .777 .797 .806 .822 .829 .843 .850 .852 .867 .881 .902 .905 .908 .920 .939 .941 .956 .959 .964 .966 .968 .981 .995 Western Mich .693 385.2 .252 .344 .347 .380 .481 .487 .--- .532 .578 .583 .621 .637 .646 .648 .649 .659 .669 .724 .725 .725 .768 .788 .798 .815 .822 .837 .844 .846 .861 .876 .897 .901 .904 .916 .936 .938 .954 .957 .963 .964 .967 .980 .995 Denver U .676 338.6 .229 .316 .318 .351 .449 .455 .468 .--- .546 .551 .590 .607 .616 .618 .619 .629 .640 .697 .699 .699 .744 .766 .777 .794 .802 .818 .826 .828 .845 .861 .885 .889 .892 .906 .928 .930 .948 .952 .958 .959 .963 .978 .994 Maine .651 281.1 .198 .277 .279 .309 .404 .410 .422 .454 .--- .505 .545 .562 .571 .573 .574 .585 .596 .657 .658 .658 .707 .731 .743 .762 .771 .789 .798 .800 .819 .838 .864 .869 .872 .889 .914 .917 .938 .942 .949 .951 .955 .973 .993 Bowling Green .649 275.5 .194 .273 .275 .305 .399 .405 .417 .449 .495 .--- .540 .557 .566 .568 .569 .580 .591 .652 .654 .654 .703 .727 .739 .759 .767 .786 .794 .797 .816 .835 .862 .867 .870 .887 .912 .915 .937 .941 .949 .950 .954 .973 .993 Vermont .626 234.8 .171 .242 .245 .272 .361 .367 .379 .410 .455 .460 .--- .517 .526 .529 .530 .541 .552 .615 .617 .617 .669 .694 .707 .728 .738 .757 .767 .770 .791 .812 .842 .847 .851 .870 .899 .902 .927 .932 .940 .942 .947 .968 .991 Minn-Duluth .617 219.2 .161 .230 .232 .259 .346 .351 .363 .393 .438 .443 .483 .--- .509 .511 .512 .523 .535 .599 .600 .600 .653 .679 .693 .714 .724 .745 .754 .757 .780 .801 .832 .838 .842 .862 .892 .896 .922 .927 .936 .938 .943 .966 .991 Michigan Tech .611 211.3 .156 .224 .226 .252 .337 .343 .354 .384 .429 .434 .474 .491 .--- .502 .503 .514 .526 .590 .591 .592 .645 .671 .685 .707 .717 .738 .748 .751 .773 .795 .827 .833 .837 .857 .889 .892 .919 .925 .934 .936 .941 .965 .990 Mass-Lowell .610 209.4 .155 .222 .224 .250 .335 .341 .352 .382 .427 .432 .471 .489 .498 .--- .501 .512 .524 .588 .589 .589 .643 .669 .683 .705 .715 .736 .746 .749 .772 .794 .826 .832 .836 .856 .888 .891 .919 .924 .933 .936 .941 .964 .990 North Dakota .609 208.6 .154 .221 .223 .250 .335 .340 .351 .381 .426 .431 .470 .488 .497 .499 .--- .511 .523 .587 .588 .588 .642 .668 .682 .704 .714 .735 .745 .748 .771 .793 .825 .831 .835 .856 .888 .891 .918 .924 .933 .935 .941 .964 .990 Clarkson .603 199.5 .149 .214 .216 .241 .325 .330 .341 .371 .415 .420 .459 .477 .486 .488 .489 .--- .512 .576 .577 .578 .632 .658 .672 .695 .705 .726 .737 .740 .763 .785 .819 .825 .829 .850 .883 .887 .915 .921 .930 .933 .938 .963 .990 Wisconsin .596 190.5 .143 .206 .208 .233 .315 .320 .331 .360 .404 .409 .448 .465 .474 .476 .477 .488 .--- .564 .566 .566 .621 .648 .662 .685 .695 .717 .728 .731 .755 .778 .812 .818 .823 .844 .878 .882 .911 .917 .927 .930 .935 .961 .989 Providence .558 147.0 .114 .167 .169 .190 .262 .266 .276 .303 .343 .348 .385 .401 .410 .412 .413 .424 .436 .--- .502 .502 .558 .587 .602 .627 .638 .662 .673 .677 .703 .730 .769 .776 .782 .807 .848 .852 .888 .895 .908 .911 .918 .950 .986 St Cloud .557 146.0 .113 .166 .168 .189 .260 .265 .275 .301 .342 .346 .383 .400 .409 .411 .412 .423 .434 .498 .--- .500 .557 .585 .600 .625 .636 .660 .672 .675 .702 .728 .768 .775 .780 .806 .847 .851 .887 .895 .907 .910 .917 .950 .986 Cornell .557 145.9 .113 .166 .168 .189 .260 .265 .275 .301 .342 .346 .383 .400 .408 .411 .412 .422 .434 .498 .500 .--- .557 .585 .600 .625 .636 .660 .672 .675 .702 .728 .768 .775 .780 .806 .847 .851 .887 .895 .907 .910 .917 .950 .986 St Lawrence .523 116.2 .092 .137 .138 .156 .219 .223 .232 .256 .293 .297 .331 .347 .355 .357 .358 .368 .379 .442 .443 .443 .--- .529 .544 .570 .582 .607 .620 .623 .652 .681 .725 .733 .739 .768 .815 .820 .862 .871 .886 .889 .898 .938 .983 AK-Anchorage .505 103.5 .083 .124 .125 .142 .200 .203 .212 .234 .269 .273 .306 .321 .329 .331 .332 .342 .352 .413 .415 .415 .471 .--- .516 .542 .553 .579 .592 .596 .626 .655 .701 .709 .716 .746 .797 .802 .848 .858 .874 .878 .887 .930 .980 Boston Coll .496 97.22 .078 .117 .118 .134 .190 .194 .202 .223 .257 .261 .293 .307 .315 .317 .318 .328 .338 .398 .400 .400 .456 .484 .--- .526 .538 .564 .577 .581 .611 .641 .688 .696 .703 .734 .786 .792 .840 .850 .867 .871 .881 .926 .979 Miami .480 87.59 .071 .107 .108 .123 .174 .178 .185 .206 .238 .241 .272 .286 .293 .295 .296 .305 .315 .373 .375 .375 .430 .458 .474 .--- .512 .538 .551 .555 .586 .616 .665 .674 .681 .713 .768 .774 .825 .836 .854 .858 .869 .919 .977 Colgate .473 83.55 .068 .102 .103 .118 .168 .171 .178 .198 .229 .233 .262 .276 .283 .285 .286 .295 .305 .362 .364 .364 .418 .447 .462 .488 .--- .526 .539 .543 .574 .605 .654 .663 .670 .704 .760 .766 .818 .830 .848 .853 .864 .915 .976 Ferris State .458 75.22 .062 .093 .094 .107 .153 .157 .163 .182 .211 .214 .243 .255 .262 .264 .265 .274 .283 .338 .340 .340 .393 .421 .436 .462 .474 .--- .513 .517 .548 .580 .630 .639 .647 .681 .740 .747 .802 .814 .834 .839 .851 .907 .973 New Hampshire .450 71.37 .059 .089 .090 .102 .147 .150 .156 .174 .202 .206 .233 .246 .252 .254 .255 .263 .272 .327 .328 .328 .380 .408 .423 .449 .461 .487 .--- .504 .535 .567 .618 .627 .635 .670 .730 .737 .794 .806 .827 .832 .844 .902 .972 Ohio State .447 70.22 .058 .087 .088 .101 .145 .148 .154 .172 .200 .203 .230 .243 .249 .251 .252 .260 .269 .323 .325 .325 .377 .404 .419 .445 .457 .483 .496 .--- .531 .563 .614 .623 .631 .666 .727 .733 .791 .804 .824 .829 .842 .901 .972 Notre Dame .429 61.96 .051 .078 .079 .090 .130 .133 .139 .155 .181 .184 .209 .220 .227 .228 .229 .237 .245 .297 .298 .298 .348 .374 .389 .414 .426 .452 .465 .469 .--- .532 .584 .594 .601 .638 .701 .708 .770 .783 .806 .811 .825 .889 .968 Northern Mich .411 54.50 .046 .069 .070 .080 .116 .119 .124 .139 .162 .165 .188 .199 .205 .206 .207 .215 .222 .270 .272 .272 .319 .345 .359 .384 .395 .420 .433 .437 .468 .--- .553 .562 .570 .608 .673 .681 .746 .760 .785 .791 .805 .876 .964 AK-Fairbanks .382 44.11 .037 .057 .057 .066 .096 .098 .103 .115 .136 .138 .158 .168 .173 .174 .175 .181 .188 .231 .232 .232 .275 .299 .312 .335 .346 .370 .382 .386 .416 .447 .--- .510 .518 .556 .625 .633 .704 .720 .747 .753 .770 .851 .955 Mass-Amherst .376 42.43 .036 .055 .055 .063 .093 .095 .099 .111 .131 .133 .153 .162 .167 .168 .169 .175 .182 .224 .225 .225 .267 .291 .304 .326 .337 .361 .373 .377 .406 .438 .490 .--- .508 .547 .616 .624 .696 .712 .739 .746 .763 .846 .954 Northeastern .372 41.09 .035 .053 .054 .061 .090 .092 .096 .108 .128 .130 .149 .158 .163 .164 .165 .171 .177 .218 .220 .220 .261 .284 .297 .319 .330 .353 .365 .369 .399 .430 .482 .492 .--- .539 .609 .617 .689 .705 .733 .740 .757 .841 .952 Harvard .352 35.20 .030 .046 .046 .053 .078 .080 .084 .094 .111 .113 .130 .138 .143 .144 .144 .150 .156 .193 .194 .194 .232 .254 .266 .287 .296 .319 .330 .334 .362 .392 .444 .453 .461 .--- .571 .580 .655 .672 .702 .709 .727 .820 .945 Brown .316 26.43 .023 .035 .035 .040 .060 .061 .064 .072 .086 .088 .101 .108 .111 .112 .112 .117 .122 .152 .153 .153 .185 .203 .214 .232 .240 .260 .270 .273 .299 .327 .375 .384 .391 .429 .--- .509 .588 .606 .639 .647 .667 .773 .928 Merrimack .312 25.52 .022 .034 .034 .039 .058 .059 .062 .070 .083 .085 .098 .104 .108 .109 .109 .113 .118 .148 .149 .149 .180 .198 .208 .226 .234 .253 .263 .267 .292 .319 .367 .376 .383 .420 .491 .--- .579 .598 .631 .639 .659 .767 .925 RPI .276 18.54 .016 .025 .025 .029 .043 .044 .046 .052 .062 .063 .073 .078 .081 .081 .082 .085 .089 .112 .113 .113 .138 .152 .160 .175 .182 .198 .206 .209 .230 .254 .296 .304 .311 .345 .412 .421 .--- .519 .554 .562 .584 .705 .900 Dartmouth .268 17.17 .015 .023 .023 .027 .040 .041 .043 .048 .058 .059 .068 .073 .075 .076 .076 .079 .083 .105 .105 .105 .129 .142 .150 .164 .170 .186 .194 .196 .217 .240 .280 .288 .295 .328 .394 .402 .481 .--- .535 .543 .566 .689 .893 Army .254 14.95 .013 .020 .020 .023 .035 .036 .037 .042 .051 .051 .060 .064 .066 .067 .067 .070 .073 .092 .093 .093 .114 .126 .133 .146 .152 .166 .173 .176 .194 .215 .253 .261 .267 .298 .361 .369 .446 .465 .--- .509 .531 .659 .879 Princeton .251 14.44 .012 .019 .020 .023 .034 .034 .036 .041 .049 .050 .058 .062 .064 .064 .065 .067 .070 .089 .090 .090 .111 .122 .129 .142 .147 .161 .168 .171 .189 .209 .247 .254 .260 .291 .353 .361 .438 .457 .491 .--- .523 .651 .875 Union .242 13.19 .011 .018 .018 .021 .031 .032 .033 .037 .045 .046 .053 .057 .059 .059 .059 .062 .065 .082 .083 .083 .102 .113 .119 .131 .136 .149 .156 .158 .175 .195 .230 .237 .243 .273 .333 .341 .416 .434 .469 .477 .--- .630 .865 Yale .199 7.745 .007 .010 .011 .012 .018 .019 .020 .022 .027 .027 .032 .034 .035 .036 .036 .037 .039 .050 .050 .050 .062 .070 .074 .081 .085 .093 .098 .099 .111 .124 .149 .154 .159 .180 .227 .233 .295 .311 .341 .349 .370 .--- .790 Air Force .133 2.059 .002 .003 .003 .003 .005 .005 .005 .006 .007 .007 .009 .009 .010 .010 .010 .010 .011 .014 .014 .014 .017 .020 .021 .023 .024 .027 .028 .028 .032 .036 .045 .046 .048 .055 .072 .075 .100 .107 .121 .125 .135 .210 .--- All teams in the group have undefined HHWPs with:
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/15/2015 05:42PM by jtwcornell91.
Re: Frozen Four
Posted by: Scersk '97 (---.hsd1.ct.comcast.net)
Date: April 16, 2015 02:29PM
Thanks, John. Observations:
(1) Is that output for '97 rather than '96? 'Cause I don't see UIC.
(2) 43 teams! One forgets…
(3) Boy, another great illustration of why it's PWR rather than KRACH. Wouldn't have been much of a national tournament that year. Good 'ol "last 20" criterion.
(1) Is that output for '97 rather than '96? 'Cause I don't see UIC.
(2) 43 teams! One forgets…
(3) Boy, another great illustration of why it's PWR rather than KRACH. Wouldn't have been much of a national tournament that year. Good 'ol "last 20" criterion.
Re: Frozen Four
Posted by: jtwcornell91 (Moderator)
Date: April 17, 2015 03:44AM
Scersk '97
Thanks, John. Observations:
(1) Is that output for '97 rather than '96? 'Cause I don't see UIC.
(2) 43 teams! One forgets…
(3) Boy, another great illustration of why it's PWR rather than KRACH. Wouldn't have been much of a national tournament that year. Good 'ol "last 20" criterion.
Well, the file is called "1996", so I suspect the problem is that the script I used to generate it 15-ish years ago didn't include IC in its list of known teams (since I wasn't running the ranking codes until 1998). I should really use my old results files to generate KRACH again at some point. If I were really enterprising I would put up DIY pages and scripts going back to 1996, but I fear I don't have the time these days.
As for point 3, I've always said that if you want to ensure conference balance in the field, you should impose that as a selection criterion, rather than using a rating system that makes it look like there is more parity than there really is. (OTOH, KRACH with a fictitious team, as Ken Butler originally implemented it, may be a better approach for that anyway.)
BTW, if you look in the Hockey-L archives, you should be able to find Ken's posting of KRACH back in the 90s.
Re: Frozen Four
Posted by: Scersk '97 (---.hsd1.ct.comcast.net)
Date: April 17, 2015 09:21AM
jtwcornell91
If I were really enterprising I would put up DIY pages and scripts going back to 1996, but I fear I don't have the time these days.
If I were really enterprising, I'd get off my ass and write something to do this myself! But then, I'm lazy. And, hell, I don't even know where one might find historical result composites——collegehockeystats.net has back to 2001, methinks, but I've never found anything further back.
jtwcornell91
BTW, if you look in the Hockey-L archives, you should be able to find Ken's posting of KRACH back in the 90s.
I've looked before, and I'll try again, but I've never been able to find it. For some reason, the last easily found posting from Ken Butler regarding KRACH comes at the end of the 1995 season; he returns to post more at the beginning of the 2000 season. Perhaps he took it to info-hockey-l, which isn't archived as far as I know, in the interim? There are some isolated references to KRACH by other posters, but no obvious posting to the list.
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