WTF, is Lynah empty?!

I went to CornellBigRed.com today and it was replaced by a promo-splash page with a link to this:
[cornellbigredtickets.universitytickets.com]

THEY'RE SELLING TICKETS LIKE THIS, DURING THE SEASON?! WHAT IS HAPPENING?

BMac
I went to CornellBigRed.com today and it was replaced by a promo-splash page with a link to this:
[cornellbigredtickets.universitytickets.com]

THEY'RE SELLING TICKETS LIKE THIS, DURING THE SEASON?! WHAT IS HAPPENING?

yeah, that was jarring to see.

scoop85

BMac
I went to CornellBigRed.com today and it was replaced by a promo-splash page with a link to this:
[cornellbigredtickets.universitytickets.com]

THEY'RE SELLING TICKETS LIKE THIS, DURING THE SEASON?! WHAT IS HAPPENING?

yeah, that was jarring to see.

Especially the Sucks game.

Pretty surprising that they apparently have enough senior night/harvard tickets floating around to sell like this.

Also, are they really selling/giving away t-shirts with player names on the back? I thought that was one of those NCAA amateurism taboos.

We talked about this in another thread at some point. Lynah has been very empty this year. Section D doesn't stand anymore and has mostly townies now. It's been a steady decline these past few years, but this is probably the low point of the Schafer era in terms of fan interest.

These are some of the most expensive college hockey tickets, the team isn't really top 10 consistently, and there are more options for late night entertainment nowadays in Ithaca. Simple market solution would be to lower student ticket pricing. Don't think T-shirts is a big driver of ticket sales or attendance so probably can cut those. Most loyal fans buy their own separate gear anyways.

ajh258
These are some of the most expensive college hockey tickets, the team isn't really top 10 consistently, and there are more options for late night entertainment nowadays in Ithaca. Simple market solution would be to lower student ticket pricing. Don't think T-shirts is a big driver of ticket sales or attendance so probably can cut those. Most loyal fans buy their own separate gear anyways.

Loyal fans already have tickets too. T-shirts, pizza parties, and thunder stixxxxx are not targeted at loyal fans.

I think the top 10 thing is wildly overblown. I think the basketball run splintered a generation of fans and its effect has continued somewhat and has more to do with attendance than national ranking, which the average face timer probably doesn't know anyway.

7-9pm is "late night"?

I do agree that the price has escalated too far to guarantee sellouts but I'm not sure they are "some of the most expensive." I'd bet $18 is somewhere in the middle of the bell curve and that there are plenty of $30+ tickets out there.

Cutting prices creates a perverse incentive where season ticket holders have now been penalized for buying up front at premium. I'd be against that.

There have always been lots of other options for entertainment.




Fig 1. Other options, an abbreviated list

It comes down to winning. If they win they get the Greek bandwagon sales; if not, then not.

Just win, baby.

when there is no pressure to buy seasons because every game is available and they still raise the season ticket price every year this is going to happen. most people i know who have seasons still dont get to every game and most have 2 tickets. throwing away $40 3-5 times a year when you can just but the games you really want to see..

they need to rethink the incentive to buy season tickets cause they have reached the price point that many are rethinking it.. Im not sure the demand will ever go back.

Chris '03

ajh258
These are some of the most expensive college hockey tickets, the team isn't really top 10 consistently, and there are more options for late night entertainment nowadays in Ithaca. Simple market solution would be to lower student ticket pricing. Don't think T-shirts is a big driver of ticket sales or attendance so probably can cut those. Most loyal fans buy their own separate gear anyways.

Loyal fans already have tickets too. T-shirts, pizza parties, and thunder stixxxxx are not targeted at loyal fans.

I think the top 10 thing is wildly overblown. I think the basketball run splintered a generation of fans and its effect has continued somewhat and has more to do with attendance than national ranking, which the average face timer probably doesn't know anyway.

7-9pm is "late night"?

I do agree that the price has escalated too far to guarantee sellouts but I'm not sure they are "some of the most expensive." I'd bet $18 is somewhere in the middle of the bell curve and that there are plenty of $30+ tickets out there.

Here is a completely unscientific survey of student ticket prices

Game Season Season Pass Notes
BU $10
Sucks Free
BC $15/game $175/season, All Sports
Union $10
Dartmouth Free
Michigan $215/season More games than Ivy's
UND $140/season More games that Ivy's
Clarkson Free
UNH Free

Free may not really be Free but admissions is included with an athletics fee.

I think Cornell is on the High end of pricing. Cornell has been milking this cow for a while and it may be running dry.

It sounds like Ken Dryden might not have come to Cornell if he was a junior player being recruited today.
"It was just absolutely great," Dryden said of his Cornell experience. "I had come from playing Junior B hockey in the Toronto area in front of 150 people. To walk into Lynah Rink and 4,000 people sounding like 24,000, it was fantastic.
"We all do our best when we are doing something that seems to matter, and matter to the people around us. Hockey at Cornell mattered."
We know that hockey at Cornell matters to those of us on this forum. Let's hope it will continue to matter to generations of future Cornellians

dbilmes
It sounds like Ken Dryden might not have come to Cornell if he was a junior player being recruited today.
"It was just absolutely great," Dryden said of his Cornell experience. "I had come from playing Junior B hockey in the Toronto area in front of 150 people. To walk into Lynah Rink and 4,000 people sounding like 24,000, it was fantastic.
"We all do our best when we are doing something that seems to matter, and matter to the people around us. Hockey at Cornell mattered."
We know that hockey at Cornell matters to those of us on this forum. Let's hope it will continue to matter to generations of future Cornellians

Every single Cornell hockey player, when asked about why they chose Cornell, mentions the Lynah Faithful. Every last one.

Ticket prices NEED to be lowered. I knew so many people at Cornell who didn't buy tickets because they were too expensive. I don't think people care much about Cornell winning, as long as they aren't terrible.

I wrote a letter to Schafer and CC'd it to Andy Noel about this...I seriously hope others do the same.

I'll add to the "prices need to be lower" choir, but from a slightly different perspective.

I had never watched a game of hockey in my life until I came to Cornell; I fell in love with the sport pretty much instantly, and now play 2-3 times a week -- it's a big part of my life. I absolutely went to that first game because it was the cool thing to do, and so it makes me sad that that's going down. Some me-like kid there is getting deprived of the chance to learn about this great game!

I guess you could say that the same is true of anything, and why should hockey be any different? To that I'd say two things: firstly, it's different to me because I love hockey. But more broadly, it's different because Cornell already has a strong hockey program and history. That's difficult to build up from scratch, especially for a school with no athletic scholarships. It's not not impossible, of course -- but why not keep the fire going, instead of having to rebuild it later if/when you want it?

Cutting prices is fine as long as you do it at the beginning of the season (or refund the season tickets holders which... yeah, right). The Tradition is always in the hands of the current students and it always faces distractions of various kinds, yet it was strongest during the days when college sports were all but boycotted as a crypto-fascist metaphor for nuclear war.

The periods in which we noticed the sharpest downturns in crowd enthusiasm have all coincided with losing seasons, and each time there have been arguments that this time though it's different because of Factor X. It's like a reverse exuberance bubble.

Let's test my hypothesis by winning. Then, if the crowds don't return to form, we can talk about Factor X.

See you all there tonight. Chartrand sweater, middle of section C.

I'm in favor of lower prices for 2014-15. I don't see a downside to lowering the price to the $12-$14 range. It makes more sense to me to try that after a season that has seen a t-shirt on Senior Night giveaway.

As an aside I'll be in section seven in Troy tonight. You'll be able to pick me out as I'll be sporting a broken nose after Neiley thanks me for posting the DQ video on YouTube.

Edit: I wish I lived two hours closer to Lynah. I'd buy season tickets and for me price wouldn't be an issue.

marty
I'm in favor of lower prices for 2014-15. I don't see a downside to lowering the price to the $12-$14 range. It makes more sense to me to try that after a season that has seen a t-shirt on Senior Night giveaway.

As an aside I'll be in section seven in Troy tonight. You'll be able to pick me out as I'll be sporting a broken nose after Neiley thanks me for posting the DQ video on YouTube.

Edit: I wish I lived two hours closer to Lynah. I'd buy season tickets and for me price wouldn't be an issue.

You can come and stay with me every weekend.

marty
I'm in favor of lower prices for 2014-15. I don't see a downside to lowering the price to the $12-$14 range. It makes more sense to me to try that after a season that has seen a t-shirt on Senior Night giveaway.

As an aside I'll be in section seven in Troy tonight. You'll be able to pick me out as I'll be sporting a broken nose after Neiley thanks me for posting the DQ video on YouTube.

Edit: I wish I lived two hours closer to Lynah. I'd buy season tickets and for me price wouldn't be an issue.

For me, price is never an issue. It's not that I'm well off. Cornell Hockey tix are are just part of the operating expenses of my life. I don't dwell on it; I just pay it & forget it!

Frankly, I think it's more about students loyalty to the team/the program. When I look across the ice at all of the empty seats (in the student sections) during the opening faceoff, it's clear to me that students don't place the hockey team on a very high level of importance. That has to affect their buying decisions as much as money.

BearLover

dbilmes
It sounds like Ken Dryden might not have come to Cornell if he was a junior player being recruited today.
"It was just absolutely great," Dryden said of his Cornell experience. "I had come from playing Junior B hockey in the Toronto area in front of 150 people. To walk into Lynah Rink and 4,000 people sounding like 24,000, it was fantastic.
"We all do our best when we are doing something that seems to matter, and matter to the people around us. Hockey at Cornell mattered."
We know that hockey at Cornell matters to those of us on this forum. Let's hope it will continue to matter to generations of future Cornellians

Every single Cornell hockey player, when asked about why they chose Cornell, mentions the Lynah Faithful. Every last one.

Ticket prices NEED to be lowered. I knew so many people at Cornell who didn't buy tickets because they were too expensive. I don't think people care much about Cornell winning, as long as they aren't terrible.

I wrote a letter to Schafer and CC'd it to Andy Noel about this...I seriously hope others do the same.

Let's not pound our chest too much. When Dryden was being recruited there weren't 4000 fans in Lynah. The "Faithful" was just getting started. No, he came because of Harkness, pure and simple. I've mentioned these episodes before. When he was being recruited he went to Princeton, where the coach told him he was building for Ivy and eastern championship, Ned told him he was building for a national championship. Lodboa was once talking about a player who was being recruited by Ned and worried about what to do if Ned went somewhere else. Dan said" You go where Ned goes."

Harkness made the Lynah Faithful, not the other way around. Lynah and it's atmosphere is important, everyone will tell you that Cornell has the best traveling fans base, but we can't get too big on ourselves. Without a continually winning team, and I mean an often ECAC championship winning, there won't be but the true Faithful at games. I agree that student ticket prices should be low, but that means those of us that have benefited by our exposure to Lynah, have to be willing to give back, to benefit the current students.

The special "sale" has student tickets at $13 each. Frankly, that still may be the highest student ticket price in all of College Hockey. $234 per season is also probably the highest (particularly on a per game basis) in College Hockey.

I have no problem charging non students more. Minnesota and ND charge on the order of $35. For most working fans that is a reasonable price. But it is a split market and the student price elasticity is different from the alumni/non student elasticity.

I believe that the Athletic Dept has seriously misjudged the student market as is evidenced by the open seats. For too many students, the product the Coach and AD put on the shelf is not worth the price as is evidenced by the unsold seats.

Sorry, I bleed as RED as any, but them's the facts.

Towerroad
The special "sale" has student tickets at $13 each. Frankly, that is still may be the highest student ticket price in all of College Hockey. $234 per season is also probably the highest (particularly on a per game basis) in College Hockey.

I have no problem charging non students more. Minnesota and ND charge on the order of $35. For most working fans that is a reasonable price. But it is a split market and the student price elasticity is different from the alumni/non student elasticity.

I believe that the Athletic Dept has seriously misjudged the student market as is evidenced by the open seats. For too many students, the product the Coach and AD put on the shelf is not worth the price as is evidenced by the unsold seats.

Sorry, I bleed as RED as any, but them's the facts.

I agree with you. The undeniable fact is that the students (and some Townies) have determined that the cost of tickets does not equal the value of the entertainment. Winning would help solve this along with lowering the ticket price.

I also believe that part of the problem is that the entertainment value to the non-diehard fan by the style of hockey the team plays is not very good. My guess is that is it easier for a casual fan to come watch a loss when the game is an exciting 4-5 loss with lots of offensive action than a 1-2 loss with lots of defense. There is a reason that pro sports leagues have become, or have tried to become, offensive minded.

I see the cost of tickets going up, the entertainment value stays the same.. still love going to the games. Started out at $60 a season now its close to $400 when you add on the post season up front.

they should get more creative, offer a multi month payment plan, create some incentive to season ticket holders, some discount on the per game cost would help.

Back in the day the tickets were $60 they were only say $5 a pop. people didnt mind missing a game, they were easy to sell because there was demand. the price was roughly the same as going to movie. Now tickets cost double a movie , the demand has dropped, tickets go onsold and every game you dont miss you eat $20 a ticket. When i was young, unmarried, never missed a game.. now the kids have games, the tickets are pricey, you cant sell them or give them away and you can get into any game you want..

Add on they messed up the consession stands, it cost way more to drive, the seats are still small, no skating bear, etc

Here are a few more comparisons Student Ticket Prices

RPI - $5/game
Q - Free
Ferris State - $6/game, $85/season
Providence - Free
Wisconsin - $160/season
Yale - Free
Northeastern - Free

In many cases the "Free" Student tickets are restricted to the Student Section. "Free" may imply there is some sort of Athletics fee but the marginal cost of having a season ticket is $0.

So far, Cornell appears to have the highest ticket prices in College Hockey.

I found a ticket to the UMass game that someone had dropped. It was a seat in Section B with a price of $13. The rest of us pay $18 a ticket for season tickets; students pay $13.

For reasons unrelated to Cornell hockey, I have had access to several years worth of information about the athletic department budget, and the rationale behind the spending cuts that were made in the very lean years and not reversed. Trust me: there is very little likelihood of ticket prices dropping. Other than fund-raising there just are not many sources of revenue available and the university is not going to substitute hockey ticket revenue with an allotment from the operating fund that would have to come from somewhere else at Cornell.

Another data point: Michigan is $215 for the season, which is ~$12/game.

dag14
I found a ticket to the UMass game that someone had dropped. It was a seat in Section B with a price of $13. The rest of us pay $18 a ticket for season tickets; students pay $13.

For reasons unrelated to Cornell hockey, I have had access to several years worth of information about the athletic department budget, and the rationale behind the spending cuts that were made in the very lean years and not reversed. Trust me: there is very little likelihood of ticket prices dropping. Other than fund-raising there just are not many sources of revenue available and the university is not going to substitute hockey ticket revenue with an allotment from the operating fund that would have to come from somewhere else at Cornell.

The University may be engaging in revenue maximization. In that case, charging a high price to students and having some empty seats may be preferable to a lower price and a full house. The risk of course is that this could lead to a death spiral.

If a raucous Student section is an important part of recruiting and the student section is not full then it may not help as much in recruiting which in turn leads to lower ticket sales.... This could be a classic short vs long term issue.

Towerroad
I have no problem charging non students more. Minnesota and ND charge on the order of $35. For most working fans that is a reasonable price.

For those prices I would expect improved concessions, a scoreboard than actually showed real time SOGs and video replays, a sound system that didn't broadcast in tongues, more than worn wooden benches, and replenished rolls of toilet paper in the men's room for Saturday nights.

I wouldn't have any issue, however, if my tickets went up a little to help subsidize student tickets (preferably general admission).

Section A and B have been as strong as ever this year, but yeah they had to give section D and E tickets to townies. I spoke with a person in the ticket office and they said this year they had a record number of sophomores who had tickets their freshman year not renew. They do need to lower the prices though, especially if we miss the NCAA tournament again. A strong run though (and after what Yale pulled off last year I'm not counting out anything) and interest will be back

Towerroad

dag14
I found a ticket to the UMass game that someone had dropped. It was a seat in Section B with a price of $13. The rest of us pay $18 a ticket for season tickets; students pay $13.

For reasons unrelated to Cornell hockey, I have had access to several years worth of information about the athletic department budget, and the rationale behind the spending cuts that were made in the very lean years and not reversed. Trust me: there is very little likelihood of ticket prices dropping. Other than fund-raising there just are not many sources of revenue available and the university is not going to substitute hockey ticket revenue with an allotment from the operating fund that would have to come from somewhere else at Cornell.

The University may be engaging in revenue maximization. In that case, charging a high price to students and having some empty seats may be preferable to a lower price and a full house. The risk of course is that this could lead to a death spiral.

If a raucous Student section is an important part of recruiting and the student section is not full then it may not help as much in recruiting which in turn leads to lower ticket sales.... This could be a classic short vs long term issue.

On the bright side, the student price hasn't changed in a while: [elf.elynah.com] [elf.elynah.com] [elf.elynah.com]

Chris '03

Towerroad

dag14
I found a ticket to the UMass game that someone had dropped. It was a seat in Section B with a price of $13. The rest of us pay $18 a ticket for season tickets; students pay $13.

For reasons unrelated to Cornell hockey, I have had access to several years worth of information about the athletic department budget, and the rationale behind the spending cuts that were made in the very lean years and not reversed. Trust me: there is very little likelihood of ticket prices dropping. Other than fund-raising there just are not many sources of revenue available and the university is not going to substitute hockey ticket revenue with an allotment from the operating fund that would have to come from somewhere else at Cornell.

The University may be engaging in revenue maximization. In that case, charging a high price to students and having some empty seats may be preferable to a lower price and a full house. The risk of course is that this could lead to a death spiral.

If a raucous Student section is an important part of recruiting and the student section is not full then it may not help as much in recruiting which in turn leads to lower ticket sales.... This could be a classic short vs long term issue.

On the bright side, the student price hasn't changed in a while: [elf.elynah.com] [elf.elynah.com] [elf.elynah.com]

Over the course of 10 years the student price more than doubled. Is the product twice as good as it was in 03-04?

Towerroad

Chris '03

Towerroad

dag14
I found a ticket to the UMass game that someone had dropped. It was a seat in Section B with a price of $13. The rest of us pay $18 a ticket for season tickets; students pay $13.

For reasons unrelated to Cornell hockey, I have had access to several years worth of information about the athletic department budget, and the rationale behind the spending cuts that were made in the very lean years and not reversed. Trust me: there is very little likelihood of ticket prices dropping. Other than fund-raising there just are not many sources of revenue available and the university is not going to substitute hockey ticket revenue with an allotment from the operating fund that would have to come from somewhere else at Cornell.

The University may be engaging in revenue maximization. In that case, charging a high price to students and having some empty seats may be preferable to a lower price and a full house. The risk of course is that this could lead to a death spiral.

If a raucous Student section is an important part of recruiting and the student section is not full then it may not help as much in recruiting which in turn leads to lower ticket sales.... This could be a classic short vs long term issue.

On the bright side, the student price hasn't changed in a while: [elf.elynah.com] [elf.elynah.com] [elf.elynah.com]

Over the course of 10 years the student price more than doubled. Is the product twice as good as it was in 03-04?

Back then, the SAFC(?) subsidized the prices. Every undergrad paid something like $2 of their activity fee towards athletics ticketing. Once they screwed up and didn't apply for funding on time, they had to pass the cost on to the students directly. Enter $13 hockey tickets and students having to pay for football and lax.

 

___________________________
"Mark Mazzoleni looks like a guy whose dog just died out there..."

I just picked up my tickets at Bartel. FWIW, there was a sign saying that tomorrow's game is sold out. Hopefully that doesn't mean the place will be full of green shirts.


Also there were a few people there picking up those 6-packs of tickets. So it seems to have helped put butts in the seats somewhat.

I've been critical of the crowd this year so in fairness: Lynah was rocking Saturday. A and B sounded as great as they have in years, and the whole crowd did a great job, particularly buoying them up after the second Clarkson goal.

What about Section C? Were they stunned by the celebrity in their midst? The ILDN cameras kept showing that guy.

Trotsky
I've been critical of the crowd this year so in fairness: Lynah was rocking Saturday. A and B sounded as great as they have in years, and the whole crowd did a great job, particularly buoying them up after the second Clarkson goal.

Yes and no. A and B were fine. I didn't see much fan participation in D & E, e.g. no newspapers, not many people standing in E, etc.

Friday night was kind-of sad. E was half-full. And the place was pretty quiet, despite the early scoring.

TimV
What about Section C? Were they stunned by the celebrity in their midst? The ILDN cameras kept showing that guy.

Who was it? or are you being sarcastic....

Jeff Hopkins '82

Trotsky
I've been critical of the crowd this year so in fairness: Lynah was rocking Saturday. A and B sounded as great as they have in years, and the whole crowd did a great job, particularly buoying them up after the second Clarkson goal.

Yes and no. A and B were fine. I didn't see much fan participation in D & E, e.g. no newspapers, not many people standing in E, etc.

Friday night was kind-of sad. E was half-full. And the place was pretty quiet, despite the early scoring.

Sec E had a fairly strong Clarkson flavor, which isn't a surprise.

There was a celebrity-looking guy a row or 2 below and left of the camera in a white Chartrand jersey...something familiar about that guy.

TimV
There was a celebrity-looking guy a row or 2 below and left of the camera in a white Chartrand jersey...something familiar about that guy.

My 15 minutes and I had the flu. Fitting.

As a visitor, I dislike starting new threads, so I will add this here. Here is a website that rates stadiums and arenas at the college and pro levels. Interestingly, Lynah is missing although nine of the ECAC rinks are included. The other two which are missing are Cheel and Appleton. They did review Cornell's football and basketball venues. I can see that Clarkson and SLU are out of the way, but I am very surprised that Lynah is missing.


Edit: Colgate isn't included either.

ursusminor
As a visitor, I dislike starting new threads, so I will add this here. Here is a website that rates stadiums and arenas at the college and pro levels. Interestingly, Lynah is missing although nine of the ECAC rinks are included. The other two which are missing are Cheel and Appleton. They did review Cornell's football and basketball venues. I can see that Clarkson and SLU are out of the way, but I am very surprised that Lynah is missing.

Obviously they're saving the best for last!

marty

ursusminor
As a visitor, I dislike starting new threads, so I will add this here. Here is a website that rates stadiums and arenas at the college and pro levels. Interestingly, Lynah is missing although nine of the ECAC rinks are included. The other two which are missing are Cheel and Appleton. They did review Cornell's football and basketball venues. I can see that Clarkson and SLU are out of the way, but I am very surprised that Lynah is missing.

Obviously they're saving the best for last!

The best? Have you BEEN to Cheel?

Josh '99

marty

ursusminor
As a visitor, I dislike starting new threads, so I will add this here. Here is a website that rates stadiums and arenas at the college and pro levels. Interestingly, Lynah is missing although nine of the ECAC rinks are included. The other two which are missing are Cheel and Appleton. They did review Cornell's football and basketball venues. I can see that Clarkson and SLU are out of the way, but I am very surprised that Lynah is missing.

Obviously they're saving the best for last!

The best? Have you BEEN to Cheel?

Yes, I've, speaking for myself, not Marty, also been to Appleton. I don't understand what you meant.

Jim Hyla

Josh '99

marty

ursusminor
As a visitor, I dislike starting new threads, so I will add this here. Here is a website that rates stadiums and arenas at the college and pro levels. Interestingly, Lynah is missing although nine of the ECAC rinks are included. The other two which are missing are Cheel and Appleton. They did review Cornell's football and basketball venues. I can see that Clarkson and SLU are out of the way, but I am very surprised that Lynah is missing.

Obviously they're saving the best for last!

The best? Have you BEEN to Cheel?

Yes, I've, speaking for myself, not Marty, also been to Appleton. I don't understand what you meant.

I meant to jokingly imply that Marty was saying Cheel was the best when it's actually an antiseptic hole.