Ivy Standings

Not too much attention is paid to the Ivy hockey race, but we're now 4-0 -- any idea the last time we started with 4 straight wins in Ivy play? (Trotsky?) I'm guessing perhaps 2002-03.

scoop85
Not too much attention is paid to the Ivy hockey race, but we're now 4-0 -- any idea the last time we started with 4 straight wins in Ivy play? (Trotsky?) I'm guessing perhaps 2002-03.

2-1 start that year. Lost to Dartmouth after wins at Princeton and Yale.
I found 4-0 start in 1997-98 and 1995-96. 95-96 went 9-0-1.

I haven't a color map for the Ivies, but I like it; it's on my list.

1969-70????????????


7 more: 62-63, 65-66, 68-69, 72-73, 76-77, 79-80, 83-84. Chillingly, we had a few 3-0 starts and then lost to...Dartmouth.

In the meantime, here's a quick and dirty report of all ECAC RS games vs Ivy opponents. There may be an error or two in the 60's when the schedule was weird -- I think there is a game someplace that was Ivy and not ECAC or vice versa (looks like 1966 at Yale is a probable).

Most recent from 5-0 through 12-0: 1970.

Yale in 66 was a league game. In 63-4, Ned's first year, we lost a non-league game to Yale at the RPI holiday tournament. I was there.

TimV
Yale in 66 was a league game. In 63-4, Ned's first year, we lost a non-league game to Yale at the RPI holiday tournament. I was there.

I thought that in that era that all games played between ECAC teams were used to compute the league standings. (That is what I remember in my undergrad 70-74 years.) There were uneven scheduling issues and beyond that I am lost as I don't remember how the uneven scheduling would determine end of season ranking. Therefore I am doubting my own memory concerning this.

I know someone reading this will help me with my mental short circuitry. How was the uneven scheduling dealt with in the standings.

(I remember my first games attended were at the RPI Christmas Tournament and I can't remember what year that was as I was in high school or junior high. It must have been later than 63-64.)

marty
I know someone reading this will help me with my mental short circuitry. How was the uneven scheduling dealt with in the standings.

I think this is more or less true:

+ Standings were in general determined by winning percentage
+ Very early (early 60's) tourney seedings were determined by some sort of smoke filled room and don't seem to be rational
+ The conference was divided for a relatively brief time into three division: Ivy, Empire (NY), and New England. The winner of each division was guaranteed a home (top 4) seed

Here are the standings adjusted for seeding. Note for example 1984, where Harvard got the 4 seed.

I have fixed both the ECAC RS and Ivy reports to reflect the 60's through 70's rule of counting Holiday Tourney games against ECAC opponents in the ECAC RS record, but not counting them in the Ivy record.

Back to the Ivies, this coming weekend is important for both the Ivy and ECAC standings. If Cornell can get a good result (3 or 4 points) they have an excellent chance to win the Ivy title. Likewise, with Yale and Brown two of the three teams (along with RPI) directly below them in the ECAC standings, a good result can help put a "floor" under fifth place.

Following the four-point weekend over Yale and Brown, Cornell have built up a big lead in the Ivy title race. Two points from the remaining three games (@ Princeton, vs. Dartmouth, vs. Harvard) will clinch at least a shared title (with Dartmouth, the only other team that can reach 15 points) and three will guarantee an outright title. No Ivy games for Cornell, Dartmouth, or Harvard (barely in the running if they win out) until 2/21; Brown (also barely in the running if they win out) would be eliminated with a loss to Princeton on 2/14.

Harvard beat Dartmouth last night so now one point clinches a shared title and two guarantees it outright.

nyc94
Harvard beat Dartmouth last night so now one point clinches a shared title and two guarantees it outright.

A Princeton win or tie Friday against Brown gives us a share of the title. We could clinch the outright title without playing another game if in addition to Princeton beating Brown, next Friday (2/21) Harvard fails to beat Yale and Dartmouth fails to beat Brown, or Princeton ties Brown, Harvard fails to beat Yale, and Dartmouth ties Brown.

Ivy standings [www.ivyleaguesports.com] as of Monday Feb. 10. Cornell has 3 Ivy games left.

         	Ivy League		                        ECAC Hockey		                                Overall
        GP	Record	Win %	Pts	GF	GA		GP	Record	Win %	Pts	GF	GA		GP	Record	Win %	GF	GA	Last 10	Streak
Cornell	7	6-0-1	0.929	13	20	10		16	8-4-4	0.625	20	40	38		22	12-5-5	0.659	60	52	5-1-3	Lost 1
Brown	7	4-3-0	0.571	8	16	20		16	6-9-1	0.406	13	39	49		23	9-11-3	0.457	62	68	4-5-1	Lost 3
Harvard	7	3-3-1	0.500	7	17	14		16	4-9-3	0.344	11	35	39		22	7-12-3	0.386	53	62	3-5-1	Won 1
D'mouth	7	3-3-1	0.500	7	18	17		16	3-12-1	0.219	7	35	64		23	4-16-3	0.239	57	90	2-5-3	Lost 1
Yale	7	2-4-1	0.357	5	18	16		16	7-6-3	0.531	17	51	40		23	12-7-4	0.609	75	54	5-4-1	Lost 1
P'ton	7	1-6-0	0.143	2	20	32		16	3-13-0	0.188	6	33	64		23	4-19-0	0.174	44	90	1-7	Lost 5

Cornell Ivy games to play:

Feb 22 Brown Princeton
Feb 28 Dartmouth
Mar 01 Harvard

billhoward
Ivy standings [www.ivyleaguesports.com] as of Monday Feb. 10. Cornell has 3 Ivy games left.

         	Ivy League		                        ECAC Hockey		                                Overall
        GP	Record	Win %	Pts	GF	GA		GP	Record	Win %	Pts	GF	GA		GP	Record	Win %	GF	GA	Last 10	Streak
Cornell	7	6-0-1	0.929	13	20	10		16	8-4-4	0.625	20	40	38		22	12-5-5	0.659	60	52	5-1-3	Lost 1
Brown	7	4-3-0	0.571	8	16	20		16	6-9-1	0.406	13	39	49		23	9-11-3	0.457	62	68	4-5-1	Lost 3
Harvard	7	3-3-1	0.500	7	17	14		16	4-9-3	0.344	11	35	39		22	7-12-3	0.386	53	62	3-5-1	Won 1
D'mouth	7	3-3-1	0.500	7	18	17		16	3-12-1	0.219	7	35	64		23	4-16-3	0.239	57	90	2-5-3	Lost 1
Yale	7	2-4-1	0.357	5	18	16		16	7-6-3	0.531	17	51	40		23	12-7-4	0.609	75	54	5-4-1	Lost 1
P'ton	7	1-6-0	0.143	2	20	32		16	3-13-0	0.188	6	33	64		23	4-19-0	0.174	44	90	1-7	Lost 5

Cornell Ivy games to play:

Feb 22 Brown
Feb 28 Dartmouth
Mar 01 Harvard

We play Princeton not Brown

Net ECAC record vs non-Ivies: 12-34-8 .296

Cor 2-4-3
Brn 2-6-1
Hvd 1-6-2
Drt 0-9-0
Yal 5-2-2
Prn 2-7-0

And that, my friend, is what we in the biz call "shitty."

Trotsky
Net ECAC record vs non-Ivies: 12-34-8 .296

Cor 2-4-3
Brn 2-6-1
Hvd 1-6-2
Drt 0-9-0
Yal 5-2-2
Prn 2-7-0

And that, my friend, is what we in the biz call "shitty."

And it will probably stay that way, unless the Ivies loosen their rules. 5/6 of our first league games were non-Ivy, and they had 2 weeks of games played before we did. I don't know when they get to start coaches practices, compared to us. Any doubt we have trouble then?

I'm all for going to the ECAC schedule, but I think we're just seeing normal variation. The Ivies have had the same disadvantage relative to the rest of the conference ever since Hockey East fled, and we've had strong periods. Indeed, since that season (1985), Ivies have won 15 of the 29 ECAC championships - right at the 50% mark one would assume for having 6 of the 12 members.

Wasn't it just a few years ago that 5 of the top 6 were Ivies? Was that a statistical anomaly? Or is this year?

Jeff Hopkins '82
Wasn't it just a few years ago that 5 of the top 6 were Ivies? Was that a statistical anomaly? Or is this year?

Ivies in the top 6 seeds:

85 - 3
86 - 3
87 - 2
88 - 2
89 - 2
90 - 2
91 - 2
92 - 4
93 - 3
94 - 2
95 - 2
96 - 2
97 - 2
98 - 3
99 - 2
00 - 2
01 - 3
02 - 3
03 - 5
04 - 4
05 - 4
06 - 3
07 - 3
08 - 3
09 - 5
10 - 2
11 - 4
12 - 3
13 - 2
14 - 2*

Counts:

0 - 0
1 - 0
2 - 14
3 - 10
4 - 4
5 - 2
6 - 0

Avg: 2.8

By decade:

80s: 2.4
90s: 2.4
00s: 3.5
10s: 2.6

* unfinished

Trotsky
And that, my friend, is what we in the biz call "shitty."

Perhaps another reason for the Ivy League to split from the ECAC.

I don't see a good reason for the Ivy teams to remain in the ECAC, especially with the Big-10 creating the model of a "small" 6 team conference. With a 20-game (2 home, 2 away against each team) Ivy regular season, that leaves 9 OOC games, which is 2 more than the current number for Ivy teams.

It also evens the playing field for everyone in the league and avoids any more discussion of the late start disadvantage, especially if you start the season with league games.

I've heard an argument that the Ivy teams don't want to split because the Ivy League won't allow a post-season tournament, but with the post-season tournaments in basketball and lacrosse I suspect that argument is not valid any longer.

Splitting would be a very, very bad idea. If you want to see into the future of Ivy League Hockey, just look at Ivy League Football. At the moment we are an ECAC team that gets to use the Ivy label as a discriminator. Put us in an Ivy ghetto and you've turned a potentially positive secondary narrative into an overwhelming negative primary narrative that is easy to recruit against.

Trotsky
Splitting would be a very, very bad idea. If you want to see into the future of Ivy League Hockey, just look at Ivy League Football. At the moment we are an ECAC team that gets to use the Ivy label as a discriminator. Put us in an Ivy ghetto and you've turned a potentially positive secondary narrative into an overwhelming negative primary narrative that is easy to recruit against.

Why would it necessarily be Ivy football (where the teams are prohibited from competing in any kind of postseason) and not, say, Ivy lacrosse (where the teams can be and are competitive nationally)? It seems like the parallels are stronger to lacrosse (more regional sport, fewer schools participating overall).

Josh '99

Trotsky
Splitting would be a very, very bad idea. If you want to see into the future of Ivy League Hockey, just look at Ivy League Football. At the moment we are an ECAC team that gets to use the Ivy label as a discriminator. Put us in an Ivy ghetto and you've turned a potentially positive secondary narrative into an overwhelming negative primary narrative that is easy to recruit against.

Why would it necessarily be Ivy football (where the teams are prohibited from competing in any kind of postseason) and not, say, Ivy lacrosse (where the teams can be and are competitive nationally)? It seems like the parallels are stronger to lacrosse (more regional sport, fewer schools participating overall).

I have no good argument to back up my claim other than sheer terror at the prospect.

I also think the killing-time-before-entering-Pater's-bond-business profile is way different from the will-do-what-it-takes-to-get-the-fuck-out-of-Manitoba profile.

Trotsky
Splitting would be a very, very bad idea. If you want to see into the future of Ivy League Hockey, just look at Ivy League Football. At the moment we are an ECAC team that gets to use the Ivy label as a discriminator. Put us in an Ivy ghetto and you've turned a potentially positive secondary narrative into an overwhelming negative primary narrative that is easy to recruit against.

+1. Emphatically.

Trotsky

Josh '99

Trotsky
Splitting would be a very, very bad idea. If you want to see into the future of Ivy League Hockey, just look at Ivy League Football. At the moment we are an ECAC team that gets to use the Ivy label as a discriminator. Put us in an Ivy ghetto and you've turned a potentially positive secondary narrative into an overwhelming negative primary narrative that is easy to recruit against.

Why would it necessarily be Ivy football (where the teams are prohibited from competing in any kind of postseason) and not, say, Ivy lacrosse (where the teams can be and are competitive nationally)? It seems like the parallels are stronger to lacrosse (more regional sport, fewer schools participating overall).

I have no good argument to back up my claim other than sheer terror at the prospect.

I also think the killing-time-before-entering-Pater's-bond-business profile is way different from the will-do-what-it-takes-to-get-the-fuck-out-of-Manitoba profile.

I suppose that's a fair point, and in any case I'm not saying I'm in favor of splitting (even leaving aside the appeal of maintaining traditional rivalries, I think we're more likely to continue to be in a stronger conference overall if we stick with the non-Ivies) but I still feel like lacrosse is a closer parallel than football.

Trotsky

nyc94
Harvard beat Dartmouth last night so now one point clinches a shared title and two guarantees it outright.

A Princeton win or tie Friday against Brown gives us a share of the title. We could clinch the outright title without playing another game if in addition to Princeton beating Brown, next Friday (2/21) Harvard fails to beat Yale and Dartmouth fails to beat Brown, or Princeton ties Brown, Harvard fails to beat Yale, and Dartmouth ties Brown.

Princeton beat Brown.
Edit: 2/21 Yale defeats Harvard, Dartmouth beats Brown. Dartmouth still alive to tie.