Ivy Standings
Posted by scoop85
Ivy Standings
Posted by: scoop85 (---.hvc.res.rr.com)
Date: January 18, 2014 02:23PM
Not too much attention is paid to the Ivy hockey race, but we're now 4-0 -- any idea the last time we started with 4 straight wins in Ivy play? (Trotsky?) I'm guessing perhaps 2002-03.
Re: Ivy Standings
Posted by: nyc94 (---.cable.mindspring.com)
Date: January 18, 2014 02:34PM
scoop85
Not too much attention is paid to the Ivy hockey race, but we're now 4-0 -- any idea the last time we started with 4 straight wins in Ivy play? (Trotsky?) I'm guessing perhaps 2002-03.
2-1 start that year. Lost to Dartmouth after wins at Princeton and Yale.
I found 4-0 start in 1997-98 and 1995-96. 95-96 went 9-0-1.
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/2014 02:50PM by nyc94.
Re: Ivy Standings
Posted by: TimV (---.nycap.res.rr.com)
Date: January 18, 2014 03:24PM
1969-70????????????
7 more: 62-63, 65-66, 68-69, 72-73, 76-77, 79-80, 83-84. Chillingly, we had a few 3-0 starts and then lost to...Dartmouth.
7 more: 62-63, 65-66, 68-69, 72-73, 76-77, 79-80, 83-84. Chillingly, we had a few 3-0 starts and then lost to...Dartmouth.
___________________________
"Yo Paulie - I don't see no crowd gathering 'round you neither."
"Yo Paulie - I don't see no crowd gathering 'round you neither."
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/2014 03:39PM by TimV.
Re: Ivy Standings
Posted by: Trotsky (---.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
Date: January 18, 2014 03:33PM
In the meantime, here's a quick and dirty report of all ECAC RS games vs Ivy opponents. There may be an error or two in the 60's when the schedule was weird -- I think there is a game someplace that was Ivy and not ECAC or vice versa (looks like 1966 at Yale is a probable).
Most recent from 5-0 through 12-0: 1970.
Most recent from 5-0 through 12-0: 1970.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/2014 03:36PM by Trotsky.
Re: Ivy Standings
Posted by: TimV (---.nycap.res.rr.com)
Date: January 18, 2014 03:46PM
Yale in 66 was a league game. In 63-4, Ned's first year, we lost a non-league game to Yale at the RPI holiday tournament. I was there.
___________________________
"Yo Paulie - I don't see no crowd gathering 'round you neither."
"Yo Paulie - I don't see no crowd gathering 'round you neither."
Re: Ivy Standings
Posted by: marty (---.nycap.res.rr.com)
Date: January 18, 2014 04:29PM
TimV
Yale in 66 was a league game. In 63-4, Ned's first year, we lost a non-league game to Yale at the RPI holiday tournament. I was there.
I thought that in that era that all games played between ECAC teams were used to compute the league standings. (That is what I remember in my undergrad 70-74 years.) There were uneven scheduling issues and beyond that I am lost as I don't remember how the uneven scheduling would determine end of season ranking. Therefore I am doubting my own memory concerning this.
I know someone reading this will help me with my mental short circuitry. How was the uneven scheduling dealt with in the standings.
(I remember my first games attended were at the RPI Christmas Tournament and I can't remember what year that was as I was in high school or junior high. It must have been later than 63-64.)
Re: Ivy Standings
Posted by: Trotsky (---.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
Date: January 18, 2014 04:46PM
marty
I know someone reading this will help me with my mental short circuitry. How was the uneven scheduling dealt with in the standings.
I think this is more or less true:
+ Standings were in general determined by winning percentage
+ Very early (early 60's) tourney seedings were determined by some sort of smoke filled room and don't seem to be rational
+ The conference was divided for a relatively brief time into three division: Ivy, Empire (NY), and New England. The winner of each division was guaranteed a home (top 4) seed
Here are the standings adjusted for seeding. Note for example 1984, where Harvard got the 4 seed.
Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/2014 04:53PM by Trotsky.
Re: Ivy Standings
Posted by: Trotsky (---.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
Date: January 27, 2014 04:52AM
Back to the Ivies, this coming weekend is important for both the Ivy and ECAC standings. If Cornell can get a good result (3 or 4 points) they have an excellent chance to win the Ivy title. Likewise, with Yale and Brown two of the three teams (along with RPI) directly below them in the ECAC standings, a good result can help put a "floor" under fifth place.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2014 04:53AM by Trotsky.
Re: Ivy Standings
Posted by: Josh '99 (---.nyc.res.rr.com)
Date: February 03, 2014 12:12PM
Following the four-point weekend over Yale and Brown, Cornell have built up a big lead in the Ivy title race. Two points from the remaining three games (@ Princeton, vs. Dartmouth, vs. Harvard) will clinch at least a shared title (with Dartmouth, the only other team that can reach 15 points) and three will guarantee an outright title. No Ivy games for Cornell, Dartmouth, or Harvard (barely in the running if they win out) until 2/21; Brown (also barely in the running if they win out) would be eliminated with a loss to Princeton on 2/14.
Re: Ivy Standings
Posted by: nyc94 (---.cable.mindspring.com)
Date: February 08, 2014 08:02AM
Harvard beat Dartmouth last night so now one point clinches a shared title and two guarantees it outright.
Re: Ivy Standings
Posted by: Trotsky (---.raytheon.com)
Date: February 10, 2014 01:56PM
A Princeton win or tie Friday against Brown gives us a share of the title. We could clinch the outright title without playing another game if in addition to Princeton beating Brown, next Friday (2/21) Harvard fails to beat Yale and Dartmouth fails to beat Brown, or Princeton ties Brown, Harvard fails to beat Yale, and Dartmouth ties Brown.nyc94
Harvard beat Dartmouth last night so now one point clinches a shared title and two guarantees it outright.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/2014 01:58PM by Trotsky.
Re: Ivy Standings - table
Posted by: billhoward (---.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
Date: February 10, 2014 02:57PM
Ivy standings [www.ivyleaguesports.com] as of Monday Feb. 10. Cornell has 3 Ivy games left.
Feb 22Brown Princeton
Feb 28 Dartmouth
Mar 01 Harvard
Ivy League ECAC Hockey Overall GP Record Win % Pts GF GA GP Record Win % Pts GF GA GP Record Win % GF GA Last 10 Streak Cornell 7 6-0-1 0.929 13 20 10 16 8-4-4 0.625 20 40 38 22 12-5-5 0.659 60 52 5-1-3 Lost 1 Brown 7 4-3-0 0.571 8 16 20 16 6-9-1 0.406 13 39 49 23 9-11-3 0.457 62 68 4-5-1 Lost 3 Harvard 7 3-3-1 0.500 7 17 14 16 4-9-3 0.344 11 35 39 22 7-12-3 0.386 53 62 3-5-1 Won 1 D'mouth 7 3-3-1 0.500 7 18 17 16 3-12-1 0.219 7 35 64 23 4-16-3 0.239 57 90 2-5-3 Lost 1 Yale 7 2-4-1 0.357 5 18 16 16 7-6-3 0.531 17 51 40 23 12-7-4 0.609 75 54 5-4-1 Lost 1 P'ton 7 1-6-0 0.143 2 20 32 16 3-13-0 0.188 6 33 64 23 4-19-0 0.174 44 90 1-7 Lost 5Cornell Ivy games to play:
Feb 22
Feb 28 Dartmouth
Mar 01 Harvard
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/2014 10:26PM by billhoward.
Re: Ivy Standings - table
Posted by: scoop85 (173.84.100.---)
Date: February 10, 2014 04:05PM
billhoward
Ivy standings [www.ivyleaguesports.com] as of Monday Feb. 10. Cornell has 3 Ivy games left.
Ivy League ECAC Hockey Overall GP Record Win % Pts GF GA GP Record Win % Pts GF GA GP Record Win % GF GA Last 10 Streak Cornell 7 6-0-1 0.929 13 20 10 16 8-4-4 0.625 20 40 38 22 12-5-5 0.659 60 52 5-1-3 Lost 1 Brown 7 4-3-0 0.571 8 16 20 16 6-9-1 0.406 13 39 49 23 9-11-3 0.457 62 68 4-5-1 Lost 3 Harvard 7 3-3-1 0.500 7 17 14 16 4-9-3 0.344 11 35 39 22 7-12-3 0.386 53 62 3-5-1 Won 1 D'mouth 7 3-3-1 0.500 7 18 17 16 3-12-1 0.219 7 35 64 23 4-16-3 0.239 57 90 2-5-3 Lost 1 Yale 7 2-4-1 0.357 5 18 16 16 7-6-3 0.531 17 51 40 23 12-7-4 0.609 75 54 5-4-1 Lost 1 P'ton 7 1-6-0 0.143 2 20 32 16 3-13-0 0.188 6 33 64 23 4-19-0 0.174 44 90 1-7 Lost 5Cornell Ivy games to play:
Feb 22 Brown
Feb 28 Dartmouth
Mar 01 Harvard
We play Princeton not Brown
Re: Ivy Standings - table
Posted by: Trotsky (---.raytheon.com)
Date: February 10, 2014 04:11PM
Net ECAC record vs non-Ivies: 12-34-8 .296
And that, my friend, is what we in the biz call "shitty."
Cor 2-4-3 Brn 2-6-1 Hvd 1-6-2 Drt 0-9-0 Yal 5-2-2 Prn 2-7-0
And that, my friend, is what we in the biz call "shitty."
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/2014 04:13PM by Trotsky.
Re: Ivy Standings - table
Posted by: Jim Hyla (---.arthritishealthdoctors.com)
Date: February 10, 2014 05:22PM
Trotsky
Net ECAC record vs non-Ivies: 12-34-8 .296
Cor 2-4-3 Brn 2-6-1 Hvd 1-6-2 Drt 0-9-0 Yal 5-2-2 Prn 2-7-0
And that, my friend, is what we in the biz call "shitty."
And it will probably stay that way, unless the Ivies loosen their rules. 5/6 of our first league games were non-Ivy, and they had 2 weeks of games played before we did. I don't know when they get to start coaches practices, compared to us. Any doubt we have trouble then?
___________________________
"Cornell Fans Made the Timbers Tremble", Boston Globe, March/1970
Cornell lawyers stopped the candy throwing. Jan/2005
"Cornell Fans Made the Timbers Tremble", Boston Globe, March/1970
Cornell lawyers stopped the candy throwing. Jan/2005
Re: Ivy Standings - table
Posted by: Trotsky (---.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
Date: February 10, 2014 06:44PM
I'm all for going to the ECAC schedule, but I think we're just seeing normal variation. The Ivies have had the same disadvantage relative to the rest of the conference ever since Hockey East fled, and we've had strong periods. Indeed, since that season (1985), Ivies have won 15 of the 29 ECAC championships - right at the 50% mark one would assume for having 6 of the 12 members.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/2014 06:45PM by Trotsky.
Re: Ivy Standings - table
Posted by: Jeff Hopkins '82 (---.airproducts.com)
Date: February 11, 2014 07:18AM
Wasn't it just a few years ago that 5 of the top 6 were Ivies? Was that a statistical anomaly? Or is this year?
Re: Ivy Standings - table
Posted by: Trotsky (---.raytheon.com)
Date: February 11, 2014 08:12AM
Jeff Hopkins '82
Wasn't it just a few years ago that 5 of the top 6 were Ivies? Was that a statistical anomaly? Or is this year?
Ivies in the top 6 seeds:
85 - 3
86 - 3
87 - 2
88 - 2
89 - 2
90 - 2
91 - 2
92 - 4
93 - 3
94 - 2
95 - 2
96 - 2
97 - 2
98 - 3
99 - 2
00 - 2
01 - 3
02 - 3
03 - 5
04 - 4
05 - 4
06 - 3
07 - 3
08 - 3
09 - 5
10 - 2
11 - 4
12 - 3
13 - 2
14 - 2*
Counts:
0 - 0
1 - 0
2 - 14
3 - 10
4 - 4
5 - 2
6 - 0
Avg: 2.8
By decade:
80s: 2.4
90s: 2.4
00s: 3.5
10s: 2.6
* unfinished
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/2014 08:24AM by Trotsky.
Re: Ivy Standings - table
Posted by: JDeafv (---.hsd1.in.comcast.net)
Date: February 11, 2014 11:22AM
Trotsky
And that, my friend, is what we in the biz call "shitty."
Perhaps another reason for the Ivy League to split from the ECAC.
I don't see a good reason for the Ivy teams to remain in the ECAC, especially with the Big-10 creating the model of a "small" 6 team conference. With a 20-game (2 home, 2 away against each team) Ivy regular season, that leaves 9 OOC games, which is 2 more than the current number for Ivy teams.
It also evens the playing field for everyone in the league and avoids any more discussion of the late start disadvantage, especially if you start the season with league games.
I've heard an argument that the Ivy teams don't want to split because the Ivy League won't allow a post-season tournament, but with the post-season tournaments in basketball and lacrosse I suspect that argument is not valid any longer.
Re: Ivy Standings - table
Posted by: Trotsky (---.raytheon.com)
Date: February 11, 2014 11:35AM
Splitting would be a very, very bad idea. If you want to see into the future of Ivy League Hockey, just look at Ivy League Football. At the moment we are an ECAC team that gets to use the Ivy label as a discriminator. Put us in an Ivy ghetto and you've turned a potentially positive secondary narrative into an overwhelming negative primary narrative that is easy to recruit against.
Re: Ivy Standings - table
Posted by: Josh '99 (---.nyc.res.rr.com)
Date: February 11, 2014 11:59AM
Why would it necessarily be Ivy football (where the teams are prohibited from competing in any kind of postseason) and not, say, Ivy lacrosse (where the teams can be and are competitive nationally)? It seems like the parallels are stronger to lacrosse (more regional sport, fewer schools participating overall).Trotsky
Splitting would be a very, very bad idea. If you want to see into the future of Ivy League Hockey, just look at Ivy League Football. At the moment we are an ECAC team that gets to use the Ivy label as a discriminator. Put us in an Ivy ghetto and you've turned a potentially positive secondary narrative into an overwhelming negative primary narrative that is easy to recruit against.
Re: Ivy Standings - table
Posted by: Trotsky (---.raytheon.com)
Date: February 11, 2014 12:16PM
Josh '99
Why would it necessarily be Ivy football (where the teams are prohibited from competing in any kind of postseason) and not, say, Ivy lacrosse (where the teams can be and are competitive nationally)? It seems like the parallels are stronger to lacrosse (more regional sport, fewer schools participating overall).Trotsky
Splitting would be a very, very bad idea. If you want to see into the future of Ivy League Hockey, just look at Ivy League Football. At the moment we are an ECAC team that gets to use the Ivy label as a discriminator. Put us in an Ivy ghetto and you've turned a potentially positive secondary narrative into an overwhelming negative primary narrative that is easy to recruit against.
I have no good argument to back up my claim other than sheer terror at the prospect.
I also think the killing-time-before-entering-Pater's-bond-business profile is way different from the will-do-what-it-takes-to-get-the-fuck-out-of-Manitoba profile.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/2014 02:00PM by Trotsky.
Re: Ivy Standings - table
Posted by: TimV (---.amc.edu)
Date: February 11, 2014 01:46PM
Trotsky
Splitting would be a very, very bad idea. If you want to see into the future of Ivy League Hockey, just look at Ivy League Football. At the moment we are an ECAC team that gets to use the Ivy label as a discriminator. Put us in an Ivy ghetto and you've turned a potentially positive secondary narrative into an overwhelming negative primary narrative that is easy to recruit against.
+1. Emphatically.
___________________________
"Yo Paulie - I don't see no crowd gathering 'round you neither."
"Yo Paulie - I don't see no crowd gathering 'round you neither."
Re: Ivy Standings - table
Posted by: Josh '99 (---.nyc.res.rr.com)
Date: February 11, 2014 02:30PM
I suppose that's a fair point, and in any case I'm not saying I'm in favor of splitting (even leaving aside the appeal of maintaining traditional rivalries, I think we're more likely to continue to be in a stronger conference overall if we stick with the non-Ivies) but I still feel like lacrosse is a closer parallel than football.Trotsky
Josh '99
Why would it necessarily be Ivy football (where the teams are prohibited from competing in any kind of postseason) and not, say, Ivy lacrosse (where the teams can be and are competitive nationally)? It seems like the parallels are stronger to lacrosse (more regional sport, fewer schools participating overall).Trotsky
Splitting would be a very, very bad idea. If you want to see into the future of Ivy League Hockey, just look at Ivy League Football. At the moment we are an ECAC team that gets to use the Ivy label as a discriminator. Put us in an Ivy ghetto and you've turned a potentially positive secondary narrative into an overwhelming negative primary narrative that is easy to recruit against.
I have no good argument to back up my claim other than sheer terror at the prospect.
I also think the killing-time-before-entering-Pater's-bond-business profile is way different from the will-do-what-it-takes-to-get-the-fuck-out-of-Manitoba profile.
Re: Ivy Standings
Posted by: nyc94 (---.cable.mindspring.com)
Date: February 14, 2014 09:12PM
Trotsky
A Princeton win or tie Friday against Brown gives us a share of the title. We could clinch the outright title without playing another game if in addition to Princeton beating Brown, next Friday (2/21) Harvard fails to beat Yale and Dartmouth fails to beat Brown, or Princeton ties Brown, Harvard fails to beat Yale, and Dartmouth ties Brown.nyc94
Harvard beat Dartmouth last night so now one point clinches a shared title and two guarantees it outright.
Princeton beat Brown.
Edit: 2/21 Yale defeats Harvard, Dartmouth beats Brown. Dartmouth still alive to tie.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/21/2014 10:04PM by nyc94.
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