Frozen Four Results

The F4 makes its annual appearance in Deadspin, although this one isn't as witless as usual.

Pinstripes! What a shock.

Yale leads Lowell 2-0

nyc94
Yale leads Lowell 2-0

Yale's absolutely dominating so far -- very impressive opening period.

Unbelievable. Cornell nearly beat this team twice. This season is already over but it keeps getting worse...

BearLover
Unbelievable. Cornell nearly beat this team twice. This season is already over but it keeps getting worse...

I don't look at it that way at all. It tells me that we have the ability to play with anyone, and the prize is there for the taking next season, and hopefully for the foreseeable future.

BearLover
Unbelievable. Cornell nearly beat this team twice. This season is already over but it keeps getting worse...

This reaction only makes sense through the prism of "Schafer is the problem", in case anyone needed a translation.

scoop85

nyc94
Yale leads Lowell 2-0

Yale's absolutely dominating so far -- very impressive opening period.

They've been incredibly impressive. It's great to watch; it's stomach churning to watch.

To avoid going to the painful place, one might rather wonder what Union is thinking right now. Perhaps something along the lines of, "Why were we set up to have to go through Quinnipiac?"

Could've been three ECAC teams at the F4 this year... or four... Unhappy place!

Uh-oh, 2–2.

Scersk '97
Uh-oh, 2–2.

So the Cornell season isn't looking quite as bad.

Perhaps Agostino will get an offer with all the Iginla/NCAA publicity.

I'm glad that this game/these games will be/are the last time(s) we'll have to see many of these Yale players, and I also hope Agostino leaves.

By the way, how nice it is to hear the non-pep band taken breaks covered by an organ rather than ruined by arena rock!

It may just be the weight of all those fatalistic years, but it feels like Yale has about a 5% chance of winning this game.

Paula Weston, USCHO LiveBlog
There aren't that many Yale fans here. Yale had to return 300 of its tickets to the NCAA because the tickets didn't sell.

ugarte

BearLover
Unbelievable. Cornell nearly beat this team twice. This season is already over but it keeps getting worse...

This reaction only makes sense through the prism of "Schafer is the problem", in case anyone needed a translation.

Oh, does it? Because it makes sense to me, and I don't think Schafer is the problem.

BearLover

ugarte

BearLover
Unbelievable. Cornell nearly beat this team twice. This season is already over but it keeps getting worse...

This reaction only makes sense through the prism of "Schafer is the problem", in case anyone needed a translation.

Oh, does it? Because it makes sense to me, and I don't think Schafer is the problem.

My bad then. It makes less sense than I thought.

EDIT: That's probably unfair. When you say "... keeps getting worse," do you mean it in the sense of "we have real talent. but for a few bounces, what might have been. it is painful to see someone else do what we could have been doing."? Because I'll grant you that, even if I don't agree with the phrasing.

scoop85

BearLover
Unbelievable. Cornell nearly beat this team twice. This season is already over but it keeps getting worse...

I don't look at it that way at all. It tells me that we have the ability to play with anyone, and the prize is there for the taking next season, and hopefully for the foreseeable future.

Oh, I mean, sure, it's a good sign for Cornell that Yale and Q are doing so well. But that sure as hell doesn't make me want to root for them.

ugarte

Paula Weston, USCHO LiveBlog
There aren't that many Yale fans here. Yale had to return 300 of its tickets to the NCAA because the tickets didn't sell.

There's probably as many Cornell fans in the building as Yale fans!

W00t! Go Yale!

Now, let's make it an all-ECAC final.

Kyle Rose
W00t! Go Yale!

Now, let's make it an all-ECAC final.

This makes absolutely no sense to me. I hope you're happy when all the hockey players who care about getting an education start going to Yale instead of Cornell (if they haven't started already). I hope you're happy that the team which has caused Cornell more hardship over the past six years than any other is on the verge of doing something Cornell hasn't done since 1970 despite having no fans and being absolute dogshit for the 36 years prior. But by all means, continue hating on 12th place in the ECAC Harvard because they have to be out rivals and we're not allowed to root against anyone else.

Boola Boola

BearLover

Kyle Rose
W00t! Go Yale!

Now, let's make it an all-ECAC final.

This makes absolutely no sense to me. I hope you're happy when all the hockey players who care about getting an education start going to Yale instead of Cornell (if they haven't started already). I hope you're happy that the team which has caused Cornell more hardship over the past six years than any other is on the verge of doing something Cornell hasn't done since 1970 despite having no fans and being absolute dogshit for the 36 years prior. But by all means, continue hating on 12th place in the ECAC Harvard because they have to be out rivals and we're not allowed to root against anyone else.

Why don't you go eat a dick?

Anyone who's actually spoken to me knows that I am not one of the Harvard-hating parrots here. Yeah, they suck, but only because they actually suck: I laugh at them, not fume over them. Yal6 is doing well—certainly better than Cornell the last few years—and deserves accolades. (As I've said numerous times over the past few months, I'm a bad fan: I have a hard time hating teams just because they aren't Cornell.) The bottom line is that Cornell isn't in the national title game because they didn't win enough other games. Yale is, because they did. Why would I wish ill will on a team that has consistently outperformed Cornell for the better part of a decade? I'd like my team to play better: that seems like the more constructive response.

I also believe in the phenomenon of "a rising tide lifts all boats": Cornell is tarred with the ECAC brush, so better for the paint to have glitter than dog shit. A strong ECAC will be better for every ECAC team.

One more thing: though I love the fan experience at Cornell and consider it integral to the Cornell hockey experience, the sport is about the athletes. Yale will win despite having no fans because the fans really don't matter that much. You don't matter that much. I don't matter that much. Get over it.

BearLover

Kyle Rose
W00t! Go Yale!

Now, let's make it an all-ECAC final.

This makes absolutely no sense to me.

And rooting against the ECAC in the NCAAs makes absolutely no sense to me.

It's just two different ways of viewing things. De gustibus non est disputandum.

Now go Q, go!

Trotsky

BearLover

Kyle Rose
W00t! Go Yale!

Now, let's make it an all-ECAC final.

This makes absolutely no sense to me.

And rooting against the ECAC in the NCAAs makes absolutely no sense to me.

It's just two different ways of viewing things. De gustibus non est disputandum.

Now go Q, go!

QFT.

Has anybody found free streaming audio (or video) for the Q game? The Q radio station is currently playing what we'll charitably call "an eclectic mix."

Kyle Rose

BearLover

Kyle Rose
W00t! Go Yale!

Now, let's make it an all-ECAC final.

This makes absolutely no sense to me. I hope you're happy when all the hockey players who care about getting an education start going to Yale instead of Cornell (if they haven't started already). I hope you're happy that the team which has caused Cornell more hardship over the past six years than any other is on the verge of doing something Cornell hasn't done since 1970 despite having no fans and being absolute dogshit for the 36 years prior. But by all means, continue hating on 12th place in the ECAC Harvard because they have to be out rivals and we're not allowed to root against anyone else.

Why don't you go eat a dick?

Anyone who's actually spoken to me knows that I am not one of the Harvard-hating parrots here. Yeah, they suck, but only because they actually suck: I laugh at them, not fume over them. Yal6 is doing well—certainly better than Cornell the last few years—and deserves accolades. (As I've said numerous times over the past few months, I'm a bad fan: I have a hard time hating teams just because they aren't Cornell.) The bottom line is that Cornell isn't in the national title game because they didn't win enough other games. Yale is, because they did. Why would I wish ill will on a team that has consistently outperformed Cornell for the better part of a decade? I'd like my team to play better: that seems like the more constructive response.

I also believe in the phenomenon of "a rising tide lifts all boats": Cornell is tarred with the ECAC brush, so better for the paint to have glitter than dog shit. A strong ECAC will be better for every ECAC team.

One more thing: though I love the fan experience at Cornell and consider it integral to the Cornell hockey experience, the sport is about the athletes. Yale will win despite having no fans because the fans really don't matter that much. You don't matter that much. I don't matter that much. Get over it.

It's enough to have 3 teams in the Frozen Four in two years to improve the ECAC's standing. People get it by now. We do not need mother******* Yale to win a championship in addition to that. There is certainly a balance where you don't want to be playing against nobodies but you want to be the best as well. It's been so long since we have been the best (in 2010 we only won the ECAC because Yale got upset earlier) that we have much bigger things to worry about than how well our rivals are doing. To me, nothing is more insulting in sports than your team struggling to win it all for so long and coming oh-so-close so many times only to see some new kid on the block win it all in a couple of years. Q winning would be just as insulting for the same reason.

BearLover
It's been so long since we have been the best (in 2010 we only won the ECAC because Yale got upset earlier) that we have much bigger things to worry about than how well our rivals are doing.

Exactly.

Q up quick on SCS, 3 minutes in.

2-zip. Holy sh...

Trotsky
Has anybody found free streaming audio (or video) for the Q game? The Q radio station is currently playing what we'll charitably call "an eclectic mix."

2-0 Q, 14:53 left first period.

Trotsky
Has anybody found free streaming audio (or video) for the Q game? The Q radio station is currently playing what we'll charitably call "an eclectic mix."

[www.dialglobalsports.com]

3-0.

How can I tell if I'm hallucinating this?

3-0 Q. Keep em coming!

The fascinating / weird / terrifying thing is that the ECAC teams aren't just winning these games, they are COMPLETELY dominant so far.

WTF?

We were 64 seconds from knocking these guys off in a best-of-three at their barn.

Maybe we actually didn't suck this year?

Trotsky
We were 64 seconds from knocking these guys off in a best-of-three at their barn.

aybe we actually didn't suck this year?

Now you're hallucinating. Wake up.

Kyle Rose

BearLover
It's been so long since we have been the best (in 2010 we only won the ECAC because Yale got upset earlier) that we have much bigger things to worry about than how well our rivals are doing.

Exactly.

I was 50% sure you were going to post exactly this. My sentence was badly phrased, but I obviously meant that we have far more pressing concerns than that the ECAC is not strong enough. In 2003, maybe that was the case. In 2013, our concern is that we aren't strong enough. But the difference in these past 10 years illuminates exactly how flawed your logic is. That the ECAC has gotten stronger recently has only weakened our chances. We haven't since gotten as far as we did in 2003 when the ECAC sucked. Now the ECAC is better and we can't even get in the tournament. There is no evidence to suggest otherwise that as the ECAC continues to grow stronger, we grow weaker. That rising tide surely lifted some boats; ours is sinking.

I don't speak for every Cornell fan apparently, but I definitely speak for that far majority of them when I say that Yale or Q winning it all is the closest thing possible to being punched in the balls short of Harvard winning. I simply cannot fathom how you people can actively root for these teams. If it's all based on the premise that it will indirectly help Cornell, I would argue that a)these teams absolutely do not need to win a championship for the ECAC to get recognition, and more importantly, b)it won't help Cornell anyway. When better recruits start going to Yale and Q and stop coming to Cornell because they aren't as good, that doesn't help Cornell. When Cornell does not make the NCAA's as often, that does not help Cornell. When the teams that have ended your seasons in (estimating) 4 of the past 6 years are playing for the national championship, that does not leave a good taste in your mouth. It honestly makes me want to throw up.

An all-ECAC final is a nice shove-it in the face of HE and WCHA fans, but it's definitely a tough pill to swallow that a non-Cornell ECAC team will win the title after all we've been through the last 10 years.

Jordan 04
An all-ECAC final is a nice shove-it in the face of HE and WCHA fans, but it's definitely a tough pill to swallow that a non-Cornell ECAC team will win the title after all we've been through the last 10 years.

Play better. "All we've been through" (oh, the humanity!) does not win games.

BearLover
I simply cannot fathom how you people can actively root for these teams. If it's all based on the premise that it will indirectly help Cornell, I would argue that a)these teams absolutely do not need to win a championship for the ECAC to get recognition, and more importantly, b)it won't help Cornell anyway. When better recruits start going to Yale and Q and stop coming to Cornell because they aren't as good, that doesn't help Cornell. When Cornell does not make the NCAA's as often, that does not help Cornell. When the teams that have ended your seasons in (estimating) 4 of the past 6 years are playing for the national championship, that does not leave a good taste in your mouth. It honestly makes me want to throw up.

It's not only that it will help us (which it will). I learned during the height of the losing streak against Harvard that it was still impossible for me not to back an ECAC team in the NCAAs -- I found myself unconsciously rooting for them.

I have no problem rooting hard for Yale and Q and if an ECAC team wins I'll love it. This tournament has rocked.

Kyle Rose

Jordan 04
An all-ECAC final is a nice shove-it in the face of HE and WCHA fans, but it's definitely a tough pill to swallow that a non-Cornell ECAC team will win the title after all we've been through the last 10 years.

Play better. "All we've been through" (oh, the humanity!) does not win games.

That's not the point at all...

Trotsky

BearLover
I simply cannot fathom how you people can actively root for these teams. If it's all based on the premise that it will indirectly help Cornell, I would argue that a)these teams absolutely do not need to win a championship for the ECAC to get recognition, and more importantly, b)it won't help Cornell anyway. When better recruits start going to Yale and Q and stop coming to Cornell because they aren't as good, that doesn't help Cornell. When Cornell does not make the NCAA's as often, that does not help Cornell. When the teams that have ended your seasons in (estimating) 4 of the past 6 years are playing for the national championship, that does not leave a good taste in your mouth. It honestly makes me want to throw up.

It's not only that it will help us (which it will). I learned during the height of the losing streak against Harvard that it was still impossible for me not to back an ECAC team in the NCAAs -- I found myself unconsciously rooting for them.

I have no problem rooting hard for Yale and Q and if an ECAC team wins I'll love it. This tournament has rocked.

I don't think we've ever been in such violent agreement.

Jordan 04
An all-ECAC final is a nice shove-it in the face of HE and WCHA fans

Not really. They don't care and if I were they I wouldn't either.

That's the kind of "beggar your neighbor" motivation that rooting against ECAC teams amounts to, so I think somebody motivated by that would have some pretty serious schizophrenia right now.

BearLover

Kyle Rose

BearLover
It's been so long since we have been the best (in 2010 we only won the ECAC because Yale got upset earlier) that we have much bigger things to worry about than how well our rivals are doing.

Exactly.

I was 50% sure you were going to post exactly this. My sentence was badly phrased, but I obviously meant that we have far more pressing concerns than that the ECAC is not strong enough. In 2003, maybe that was the case. In 2013, our concern is that we aren't strong enough. But the difference in these past 10 years illuminates exactly how flawed your logic is. That the ECAC has gotten stronger recently has only weakened our chances. We haven't since gotten as far as we did in 2003 when the ECAC sucked. Now the ECAC is better and we can't even get in the tournament. There is no evidence to suggest otherwise that as the ECAC continues to grow stronger, we grow weaker. That rising tide surely lifted some boats; ours is sinking.

I don't speak for every Cornell fan apparently, but I definitely speak for that far majority of them when I say that Yale or Q winning it all is the closest thing possible to being punched in the balls short of Harvard winning. I simply cannot fathom how you people can actively root for these teams. If it's all based on the premise that it will indirectly help Cornell, I would argue that a)these teams absolutely do not need to win a championship for the ECAC to get recognition, and more importantly, b)it won't help Cornell anyway. When better recruits start going to Yale and Q and stop coming to Cornell because they aren't as good, that doesn't help Cornell. When Cornell does not make the NCAA's as often, that does not help Cornell. When the teams that have ended your seasons in (estimating) 4 of the past 6 years are playing for the national championship, that does not leave a good taste in your mouth. It honestly makes me want to throw up.

Let me buy you a drink,

Trotsky
It's not only that it will help us (which it will).

Please enlighten me as to how? Because it's only hurt us in past years.

BearLover

Trotsky
It's not only that it will help us (which it will).

Please enlighten me as to how? Because it's only hurt us in past years.

Someone's got to break the seal. The ECAC has been perceived as the weak sister for far too long. Recruiting will be a lot easier when recruits won't think they're wasting 4 years.

BearLover

Trotsky
It's not only that it will help us (which it will).

Please enlighten me as to how? Because it's only hurt us in past years.

Huh? That makes no sense. This is new territory.

I suppose you can argue that the conference strengthening and shedding its image as uncompetitive will not help us. Good luck with that. But your argument that "it has only hurt us in past years" is self-contradictory. The conference members have been hurt by substandard performance. This is superlative performance, so prior years have no bearing (but are strongly indicative of the opposite of what you are saying).

Kyle Rose

BearLover

Trotsky
It's not only that it will help us (which it will).

Please enlighten me as to how? Because it's only hurt us in past years.

Someone's got to break the seal. The ECAC has been perceived as the weak sister for far too long. Recruiting will be a lot easier when recruits won't think they're wasting 4 years.

There's way too much cognitive dissonance generated by agreeing with you. Quick, mention the Paris Commune or something.

Kyle Rose

Jordan 04
An all-ECAC final is a nice shove-it in the face of HE and WCHA fans, but it's definitely a tough pill to swallow that a non-Cornell ECAC team will win the title after all we've been through the last 10 years.

Play better. "All we've been through" (oh, the humanity!) does not win games.

Not sure what "oh, the humanity!" means.

Sometimes you don't play well enough. Sometimes you play well enough but still don't win. C'est la vie.

BearLover

Trotsky
It's not only that it will help us (which it will).

Please enlighten me as to how? Because it's only hurt us in past years.

I'm with Trotsky as I have no idea what when or where in the past anything similar to what has happened in this year's tournament has hurt Cornell.

Kyle Rose

BearLover

Trotsky
It's not only that it will help us (which it will).

Please enlighten me as to how? Because it's only hurt us in past years.

Someone's got to break the seal. The ECAC has been perceived as the weak sister for far too long. Recruiting will be a lot easier when recruits won't think they're wasting 4 years.

For QU and Yale, arguably.

While I don't openly root for these ECAC teams to get crushed as BearLover appears to, his position is not unreasonable. It's fair to believe that the recruiting advantage/improvement gained by QU and Yale from their appearance in the championship game (and one of them being champions) is greater than any advantage gained by the 9th place team in the league. And that results in a net loss for Cornell.

4-1 Q!

Jordan 04

Kyle Rose

BearLover

Trotsky
It's not only that it will help us (which it will).

Please enlighten me as to how? Because it's only hurt us in past years.

Someone's got to break the seal. The ECAC has been perceived as the weak sister for far too long. Recruiting will be a lot easier when recruits won't think they're wasting 4 years.

For QU and Yale, arguably.

While I don't openly root for these ECAC teams to get crushed as BearLover appears to, his position is not unreasonable. It's fair to believe that the recruiting advantage/improvement gained by QU and Yale from their appearance in the championship game (and one of them being champions) is greater than any advantage gained by the 9th place team in the league. And that results in a net loss for Cornell.

This site is unusableonbilelltry again later. .i m

St. Cloud starting to act frustrated.

Trotsky

BearLover

Trotsky
It's not only that it will help us (which it will).

Please enlighten me as to how? Because it's only hurt us in past years.

Huh? That makes no sense. This is new territory.

I suppose you can argue that the conference strengthening and shedding its image as uncompetitive will not help us. Good luck with that. But your argument that "it has only hurt us in past years" is self-contradictory. The conference members have been hurt by substandard performance. This is superlative performance, so prior years have no bearing (but are strongly indicative of the opposite of what you are saying).

The conference shedding its image as uncompetitive will obviously help us. It will also help everyone else in our conference. Yale, Q, and Union are going to reap the far majority of the reward. The chances of Cornell winning the ECAC will significantly decrease (as they have the past 10 years, as the conference has gotten better). That means fewer trips to the NCAAS. That also means smart kids who are good at hockey will look elsewhere. Altogether that results in a net loss.

While I don't disagree with the Cornell fans who say what's good for the ECAC is good for Cornell, on an emotional level, I simply can not bring myself to root for Q. I watched every minute of our three-game playoff series against them, and after being subjected to their front-running fans, their annoying thundersticks, the blaring music in their arena and the 25 minutes it took me to exit the parking lot after Game 1 -- not to mention their rub-it-in-your face behavior in their 10-0 rout of us --I simply can not root for them under any circumstances. I am also sick of reading stories about them every day in the local newspapers here in CT.

Kyle Rose

BearLover

Trotsky
It's not only that it will help us (which it will).

Please enlighten me as to how? Because it's only hurt us in past years.

Someone's got to break the seal. The ECAC has been perceived as the weak sister for far too long. Recruiting will be a lot easier when recruits won't think they're wasting 4 years.

I think this is the real point that BearLover doesn't buy into. This pending all-ECAC final will allow our coaches to more easily sell recruits on the fact that they can take advantage of all that Cornell offers and play in a league that truly offers the top competition available at the college level. I've been saying for years that the ECAC teams were improving accross the board, and I'm pleased that this year the results bear that out.

The fact that Yale or Q will almost certainly win the title will be feathers in their caps, but I don't think that at all means we'll lose all recruits to them or anyone else. I have every confidence that we'll get our share to top-shelf guys regardless who wins on Saturday, and our chances of getting the best academically qualified players can only be helped by the ECAC's stellar showing.

BearLover
The conference shedding its image as uncompetitive will obviously help us. It will also help everyone else in our conference. Yale, Q, and Union are going to reap the far majority of the reward. The chances of Cornell winning the ECAC will significantly decrease (as they have the past 10 years, as the conference has gotten better). That means fewer trips to the NCAAS. That also means smart kids who are good at hockey will look elsewhere. Altogether that results in a net loss.

This assumes the overall pie stays the same, but it won't. Minnesota and Denver winning NCAA titles didn't hurt the WCHA, it kept the conference in a position where they could attract talent and roll up 3, 4 or even 5 NCAA bids a season.

However, I can understand your argument now. I think we are arguing at different points on the supply curve. The ECAC is currently a "poorly exploited" resource. True, a rising tide can't lift all boats forever -- eventually the conference maxes out and at that point your concerns start to affect a given member's chances. But we are nowhere near there right now, having been wandering in the wilderness now for decades. If Cornell loses a blue chip to Yale but picks up two who are no longer worried about coming to the ECAC, that's a net gain.

dbilmes
While I don't disagree with the Cornell fans who say what's good for the ECAC is good for Cornell, on an emotional level, I simply can not bring myself to root for Q. I watched every minute of our three-game playoff series against them, and after being subjected to their front-running fans, their annoying thundersticks, the blaring music in their arena and the 25 minutes it took me to exit the parking lot after Game 1 -- not to mention their rub-it-in-your face behavior in their 10-0 rout of us --I simply can not root for them under any circumstances. I am also sick of reading stories about them every day in the local newspapers here in CT.

I'm rooting for Q now, but will definitely favor Yale on Saturday. I too can't stand the thundersticks and the plastic corporate culture that seems to permeate their program -- and the hockey cheerleaders? Come on now!

dbilmes
I am also sick of reading stories about them every day in the local newspapers here in CT.

I'm sure this is a big part of it. Familiarity breeds contempt.

scoop85
and the hockey cheerleaders? Come on now!

With one exemption. I loathe the Gophers, but this is traditional and, dare I say, classy:

I'll be pulling for the asteroid.

Trotsky

BearLover
The conference shedding its image as uncompetitive will obviously help us. It will also help everyone else in our conference. Yale, Q, and Union are going to reap the far majority of the reward. The chances of Cornell winning the ECAC will significantly decrease (as they have the past 10 years, as the conference has gotten better). That means fewer trips to the NCAAS. That also means smart kids who are good at hockey will look elsewhere. Altogether that results in a net loss.

This assumes the overall pie stays the same, but it won't. Minnesota and Denver winning NCAA titles didn't hurt the WCHA, it kept the conference in a position where they could attract talent and roll up 3, 4 or even 5 NCAA bids a season.

However, I can understand your argument now. I think we are arguing at different points on the supply curve. The ECAC is currently a "poorly exploited" resource. True, a rising tide can't lift all boats forever -- eventually the conference maxes out and at that point your concerns start to affect a given member's chances. But we are nowhere near there right now, having been wandering in the wilderness now for decades. If Cornell loses a blue chip to Yale but picks up two who are no longer worried about coming to the ECAC, that's a net gain.

I understand there are pros and cons. I think the cons outweight the pros, because we are directly competing with the others schools that benefit from this. Nationally, we may get some better recruits from the other conferences. But recruits also want to go to a program that wins. The ECAC slice of the recruit pie will increase, but Cornell's overall share I expect to stay largely the same, or increase slightly. This is more than offset by the fact we will be losing a lot more to the other ECAC teams.

Trotsky

However, I can understand your argument now. I think we are arguing at different points on the supply curve. The ECAC is currently a "poorly exploited" resource. True, a rising tide can't lift all boats forever -- eventually the conference maxes out and at that point your concerns start to affect a given member's chances. But we are nowhere near there right now, having been wandering in the wilderness now for decades. If Cornell loses a blue chip to Yale but picks up two who are no longer worried about coming to the ECAC, that's a net gain.

I think this is a bit of a straw man. Of course if we continue to out-recruit Yale 2:1 on blue chip prospects, we'll be fine. The argument is that the more the QU's and Yales go to the Frozen Four, the Finals, and win titles, the less likely any of those 3 aforementioned blue-chippers are coming to Cornell, let alone two. They theoretically become Yale's to "lose", not Cornell's.

scoop85
I think this is the real point that BearLover doesn't buy into. This pending all-ECAC final will allow our coaches to more easily sell recruits on the fact that they can take advantage of all that Cornell offers and play in a league that truly offers the top competition available at the college level. I've been saying for years that the ECAC teams were improving accross the board, and I'm pleased that this year the results bear that out.

The fact that Yale or Q will almost certainly win the title will be feathers in their caps, but I don't think that at all means we'll lose all recruits to them or anyone else. I have every confidence that we'll get our share to top-shelf guys regardless who wins on Saturday, and our chances of getting the best academically qualified players can only be helped by the ECAC's stellar showing.

More straw men. Nobody has argued that our coaches won't be able to more easily sell the ECAC after an all-ECAC final. Just that Cornell may have a tougher time selling Cornell, than Yale will have selling Yale (or QU, QU), than has historically been the case.

Of course we won't lose all of our recruits. Nobody's suggesting that.

Ben
I'll be pulling for the asteroid.

+1

BearLover
I think the cons outweight the pros, because we are directly competing with the others schools that benefit from this. Nationally, we may get some better recruits from the other conferences. But recruits also want to go to a program that wins. The ECAC slice of the recruit pie will increase, but Cornell's overall share I expect to stay largely the same, or increase slightly. This is more than offset by the fact we will be losing a lot more to the other ECAC teams.

I believe if we open up the pool of recruits we have a significant advantage on Yale.



I say this as a proud admittee.

Trotsky

BearLover
I think the cons outweight the pros, because we are directly competing with the others schools that benefit from this. Nationally, we may get some better recruits from the other conferences. But recruits also want to go to a program that wins. The ECAC slice of the recruit pie will increase, but Cornell's overall share I expect to stay largely the same, or increase slightly. This is more than offset by the fact we will be losing a lot more to the other ECAC teams.

I believe if we open up the pool of recruits we have a significant advantage on Yale.

Cornell%20Agriculture%20and%20Life%20Sciences%20Sticker.jpg

I say this as a proud admittee.

No. Two reasons:
1. Yale is better at hockey now; and
2.

Felix's standard order of cheering

Cornell
Ivys sans Harvard
ECAC Teams (hockey only)
Harvard
Any other non merit scholarship team
All other schools sorted by distance from my current home in Somerville
This space reserved for schools with no actual principles (Kentucky, Duke, Penn State)

I don't think this is good for Cornell. Prospects want to play for good teams, not bad teams in good conferences (and until we prove otherwise, we're a bad team). If anything, this will make things harder on Cornell. If a prospect is getting recruited by Cornell and Yale, why go to Cornell when he can go to another Ivy that was just in the national championship game? Also, look at the SEC. Has their recent success benefited any team other than Alabama, LSU, and, to a lesser extent, Georgia and Florida? Tennessee, Kentucky, Vanderbilt, Ole Miss, and Miss State are still bad or mediocre at best. Even Auburn, two years removed from a national championship, and Arkansas, a preseason top 10, did terrible this past year.

No need to repeat what Greg said. I'll just add that Cornell is hardly "a 9th place team" from the perspective of a recruit: Cornell has been the most consistently good team in the conference over the past decade and a half: one off year doesn't change that. By virtue of attracting recruits that would previously not have returned the calls of ECAC recruiters, a stronger conference will definitely benefit the strongest teams in the conference: Yale, Union, Quinnipiac, Cornell, and (yes) Harvard.

Kyle Rose
No need to repeat what Greg said. I'll just add that Cornell is hardly "a 9th place team" from the perspective of a recruit: Cornell has been the most consistently good team in the conference over the past decade and a half: one off year doesn't change that. By virtue of attracting recruits that would previously not have returned the calls of ECAC recruiters, a stronger conference will definitely benefit the strongest teams in the conference: Yale, Union, Quinnipiac, Cornell, and (yes) Harvard.

But not necessarily equally.

The world turned upside down.

ALL ECAC, BITCHES.

I now officially don't give a shit who wins on Saturday. Let the partying begin two days early!

I expect those of you who are happy about this to do this chant on Saturday (except, obviously, with the appropriate letters): [www.youtube.com]

Kyle Rose
ALL ECAC, BITCHES.

It is unfortunate you derive such pleasure from something that will ultimately hurt Cornell, and gloat about it here when most of us do not see it as you do. There is, once again, nothing to suggest this will benefit Cornell in any way. The only thing for certain is that Cornell Hockey, long the class of the league, the program that has so many times come up just short of a championship, will sit in the shadow of one of its biggest nemeses for the foreseeable future, and you, as a supposed Cornell fan, rooted for it to happen.

BearLover

Kyle Rose
ALL ECAC, BITCHES.

It is unfortunate you derive such pleasure from something that will ultimately hurt Cornell, blah blah blah blah blah blah

Get over it. Yale and Quinnipiac (and Union) losing this year would not in any way help Cornell stop sucking. That change has to happen at home.

Kyle Rose

BearLover

Kyle Rose
ALL ECAC, BITCHES.

It is unfortunate you derive such pleasure from something that will ultimately hurt Cornell, blah blah blah blah blah blah

Get over it. Yale and Quinnipiac (and Union) losing this year would not in any way help Cornell stop sucking. That change has to happen at home.

Stop talking in extremes. Cornell doesn't suck. Nothing short of winning a championship is going to undo this damage, and that task just got considerably harder.

Jordan 04

Kyle Rose

Jordan 04
An all-ECAC final is a nice shove-it in the face of HE and WCHA fans, but it's definitely a tough pill to swallow that a non-Cornell ECAC team will win the title after all we've been through the last 10 years.

Play better. "All we've been through" (oh, the humanity!) does not win games.

Not sure what "oh, the humanity!" means.

[www.youtube.com]

In this context, it's a sarcastic response to the suicidal travails of Cornell fans who've suffered through (wait, let me pull out the world's smallest violin) the winningest ten-year rolling NCAA record of any ECAC team in two decades. Yeah, I want a national championship, too. And a pony. Maybe Yale or Q breaking the seal will make that possible. If anything, we helped make it possible for them to achieve this historic 24-year goal on Saturday. My hat's off to the winner.

BearLover

Kyle Rose

BearLover

Kyle Rose
ALL ECAC, BITCHES.

It is unfortunate you derive such pleasure from something that will ultimately hurt Cornell, blah blah blah blah blah blah

Get over it. Yale and Quinnipiac (and Union) losing this year would not in any way help Cornell stop sucking. That change has to happen at home.

Stop talking in extremes. Cornell doesn't suck. Nothing short of winning a championship is going to undo this damage, and that task just got considerably harder.

Kyle Rose
I now officially don't give a shit who wins on Saturday. Let the partying begin two days early!

This.

Everybody in CT and PA has my permission to go on a three-day drinking binge.

When the clock strikes midnight Saturday, it's back to fuck both Yale and Q. Until then, New Haven über alles.

Glass half empty, huh?

BearLover

Kyle Rose

BearLover

Kyle Rose
ALL ECAC, BITCHES.

It is unfortunate you derive such pleasure from something that will ultimately hurt Cornell, blah blah blah blah blah blah

Get over it. Yale and Quinnipiac (and Union) losing this year would not in any way help Cornell stop sucking. That change has to happen at home.

Stop talking in extremes. Cornell doesn't suck. Nothing short of winning a championship is going to undo this damage, and that task just got considerably harder.

It's going to get even harder because the airlines are starting to charge by the pound and our useless fatass coach won't take any sign short of "free lifetime Ben and Jerry's." So how do we Free Willy?

Not even the sign of a championship game between two teams in our own league who were built from the ground up in less time than it took us to adjust to the ever changing game. No, instead we're stuck with slow, fat pylons, and pussy dumbfuck Canadiens who flop all over the ice, and Happy Gilmore players that board and nut shot because thats the only way they can "compete". Fuck our team, our coach, and the people on this board that think Cornell is in any way, shape, or form, competitive anymore. We had 15 years and couldnt crack the championship game, here are two teams that just went out and fucking did it. The ECAC deserved better than us, and thankfully, it got it, and it is so very appropriate that it was NOT US.

Kyle Rose

BearLover

Kyle Rose

BearLover

Kyle Rose
ALL ECAC, BITCHES.

It is unfortunate you derive such pleasure from something that will ultimately hurt Cornell, blah blah blah blah blah blah

Get over it. Yale and Quinnipiac (and Union) losing this year would not in any way help Cornell stop sucking. That change has to happen at home.

Stop talking in extremes. Cornell doesn't suck. Nothing short of winning a championship is going to undo this damage, and that task just got considerably harder.

tumblr_llmp5kTySO1qcppf0o1_500.jpg

I'm sorry, but what do you hope to accomplish with this post? "I have no argument so I'll make a [failed] attempt at internet wit"? Am I supposed to be angry or sad or offended or something? I honestly have no reaction to this post, and I don't think anyone finds it funny. I'm all for trolling people, but at least be a good troll. You and Trotsky can post as many times about how happy this makes you, but you still have failed to convince anyone that this is ultimately good for Cornell. I'll be generous and say that materially, the ECAC's success this year is a toss-up for Cornell. Not from an emotional/psychological perspective, though. From that standpoint, this absolutely sucks.

I'm done here. I don't know if I convinced anyone, but at least I didn't have to resort to gloating or goading. Hoping for some sort of "Don't let the door hit you..." post to further prove my point.

BearLover

Kyle Rose
ALL ECAC, BITCHES.

It is unfortunate you derive such pleasure from something that will ultimately hurt Cornell, and gloat about it here when most of us do not see it as you do. [/i]

Just curious. Why do you think "most of us" are not happy with ECAC teams winning? From my perspective I would bet that the majority of the long term posters on this board would be pulling for ECAC teams, particularly since that's been the general consensus around here at NCAA time for a decade. Was there a poll about this that I missed?

WEll, an ECAC team is going to win this year and we'll have the effects of that (good or bad) whether we weanted them or not. Though I guess we can argue ad infinitum about whether our future success (or lack thereof) is due to this momenttous event.

dbilmes
While I don't disagree with the Cornell fans who say what's good for the ECAC is good for Cornell, on an emotional level, I simply can not bring myself to root for Q. I watched every minute of our three-game playoff series against them, and after being subjected to their front-running fans, their annoying thundersticks, the blaring music in their arena and the 25 minutes it took me to exit the parking lot after Game 1 -- not to mention their rub-it-in-your face behavior in their 10-0 rout of us --I simply can not root for them under any circumstances. I am also sick of reading stories about them every day in the local newspapers here in CT.

This. I hope Yale beats them 10-0.

KeithK
WEll, an ECAC team is going to win this year and we'll have the effects of that (good or bad) whether we weanted them or not.

Yup: there's nothing I could do about it even if I agreed with ButtLover. At this point, IMO it would be fine if both Q and Yale lost; fortunately for the ECAC, that is not a possible outcome.

BearLover

Kyle Rose

BearLover

Kyle Rose

BearLover

Kyle Rose
ALL ECAC, BITCHES.

It is unfortunate you derive such pleasure from something that will ultimately hurt Cornell, blah blah blah blah blah blah

Get over it. Yale and Quinnipiac (and Union) losing this year would not in any way help Cornell stop sucking. That change has to happen at home.

Stop talking in extremes. Cornell doesn't suck. Nothing short of winning a championship is going to undo this damage, and that task just got considerably harder.

tumblr_llmp5kTySO1qcppf0o1_500.jpg

I'm sorry, but what do you hope to accomplish with this post? "I have no argument so I'll make a [failed] attempt at internet wit"? Am I supposed to be angry or sad or offended or something? I honestly have no reaction to this post, and I don't think anyone finds it funny. I'm all for trolling people, but at least be a good troll. You and Trotsky can post as many times about how happy this makes you, but you still have failed to convince anyone that this is ultimately good for Cornell. I'll be generous and say that materially, the ECAC's success this year is a toss-up for Cornell. Not from an emotional/psychological perspective, though. From that standpoint, this absolutely sucks.

I'm done here. I don't know if I convinced anyone, but at least I didn't have to resort to gloating or goading. Hoping for some sort of "Don't let the door hit you..." post to further prove my point.

Don't listen to these morons. They are the same 10 people circle jerking each other. If it makes you feel any better they are a running joke amongst the Frozen Four crowd, they sit by themselves, no one wants to talk to them, and insist on injecting Cornell into every discussion no matter how inappropriate. No one outside this forum takes them seriously, and you would do much better if you just find other intelligent college hockey fans, we are out there.

Kyle Rose

KeithK
WEll, an ECAC team is going to win this year and we'll have the effects of that (good or bad) whether we weanted them or not.

Yup: there's nothing I could do about it even if I agreed with ButtLover. At this point, IMO it would be fine if both Q and Yale lost; fortunately for the ECAC, that is not a possible outcome.

Well, that just seems uncalled for. Also, somewhat homophobic.

The most remarkable thing about the 2013 bizarro tournament is that the ECAC will be perfect out of conference. It will go 8-2 with loses only in the two ECAC v. ECAC games. When's the last time a conference has pulled that off? [For the Q doubters, this sets up nicely. They struggled to beat Canisius, beat 4 seed SCSU, and played two EZAC schools. Not exactly murderers row.] Also amazing: If Michigan beat Cornell back in November, Yale's season would have ended in AC.

Also, has a team that lost to AIC ever played for (or won) a title?

I'm happy about the all-ECAC final. Do I wish Cornell was there? Sure. Am I bitter about what might have been in the many near misses Cornell's had in the past decade? Sure. Do I resent the "easy" success Yale and Q have had at least a little bit? Sure. But 24 years is too long between titles for this conference and it's about time some respect was restored even if Cornell won't do it. If ECAC schools win 3 or 4 of the next 10-12 titles, I'll be more comfortable being discerning about what ECAC schools I'm ok with winning. In the meantime, go ECAC.


The elephant in the room in all of this is the institutional recruiting advantages Q and Y now have, and have had for a while now, national titles or no national titles. Q is an 18 scholarship team with no academic standards to speak of and facilities that attract recruits (even if they drive many of us nuts). They pour money into athletics, buy TV time, and run their program like a pro franchise. Their recruiting pool is always going to be larger. Yale (and H and P for that matter) now have de facto athletic scholarships for recruits from middle class backgrounds. I think I read somewhere in the CT media love-fest this week that families making $80k or less pay $0 for Yale and it's a sliding scale after that. Cornell doesn't have those resources and may never given the size of the student body. While it will match packages from HYP, it can't do anything for a kid who needs the financial help and can't get into HYP. It's not a great position to be in for Cornell's recruiting approach to have to be "we want you to come here. Now go apply to HYP and when you get in, we'll get you a free ride here."

HYP have an enormous financial aid advantage right now over Cornell, Brown, and Dartmouth. Cornell has history, tradition, etc., which is great. But eventually money talks.

jtn27

Kyle Rose

KeithK
WEll, an ECAC team is going to win this year and we'll have the effects of that (good or bad) whether we weanted them or not.

Yup: there's nothing I could do about it even if I agreed with ButtLover. At this point, IMO it would be fine if both Q and Yale lost; fortunately for the ECAC, that is not a possible outcome.

Well, that just seems uncalled for. Also, somewhat homophobic.

These guys (and gals) are utterly defeated with tonight's results. They have no rational defense, what do you expect?

Kyle Rose

KeithK
WEll, an ECAC team is going to win this year and we'll have the effects of that (good or bad) whether we weanted them or not.

Yup: there's nothing I could do about it even if I agreed with ButtLover. At this point, IMO it would be fine if both Q and Yale lost; fortunately for the ECAC, that is not a possible outcome.

Are you 5? And yeah, fortunately for the ECAC, unfortunately for Cornell.

ScrewBU might be a "troll," but he is raises some good points:
-the top posters on this forum are not representative of the average Cornell fan, and definitely not of the students
-there is a tremendous amount of circle jerking between the established posters here
-if you disagree with the established posters, you are labeled a troll

Chris '03
The most remarkable thing about the 2013 bizarro tournament is that the ECAC will be perfect out of conference. It will go 8-2 with loses only in the two ECAC v. ECAC games. When's the last time a conference has pulled that off? [For the Q doubters, this sets up nicely. They struggled to beat Canisius, beat 4 seed SCSU, and played two EZAC schools. Not exactly murderers row.] Also amazing: If Michigan beat Cornell back in November, Yale's season would have ended in AC.

Also, has a team that lost to AIC ever played for (or won) a title?

I'm happy about the all-ECAC final. Do I wish Cornell was there? Sure. Am I bitter about what might have been in the many near misses Cornell's had in the past decade? Sure. Do I resent the "easy" success Yale and Q have had at least a little bit? Sure. But 24 years is too long between titles for this conference and it's about time some respect was restored even if Cornell won't do it. If ECAC schools win 3 or 4 of the next 10-12 titles, I'll be more comfortable being discerning about what ECAC schools I'm ok with winning. In the meantime, go ECAC.


The elephant in the room in all of this is the institutional recruiting advantages Q and Y now have, and have had for a while now, national titles or no national titles. Q is an 18 scholarship team with no academic standards to speak of and facilities that attract recruits (even if they drive many of us nuts). They pour money into athletics, buy TV time, and run their program like a pro franchise. Their recruiting pool is always going to be larger. Yale (and H and P for that matter) now have de facto athletic scholarships for recruits from middle class backgrounds. I think I read somewhere in the CT media love-fest this week that families making $80k or less pay $0 for Yale and it's a sliding scale after that. Cornell doesn't have those resources and may never given the size of the student body. While it will match packages from HYP, it can't do anything for a kid who needs the financial help and can't get into HYP. It's not a great position to be in for Cornell's recruiting approach to have to be "we want you to come here. Now go apply to HYP and when you get in, we'll get you a free ride here."

HYP have an enormous financial aid advantage right now over Cornell, Brown, and Dartmouth. Cornell has history, tradition, etc., which is great. But eventually money talks.

Of course, since a team is better than us here comes the "no academic standards" argument. YOU ARE A FUCKING DISGRACE AND SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF, FIND THE NEAREST GORGE AND JUMP, OR THE NEAREST TAILPIPE AND TAKE A SWEET, SWEET DEEP BREATH. Here is the counter argument that Hockey East has dealt with for the last 10 years. Wouldn't Maine and UNH have taken advantage of this? What about all those amazing players that just couldn't cut it academically? JVR? Joey Diamond? Has that EVER worked out for a single team? IT HASN'T. EVER. I hope you get rectal cancer and spend all of Daddys trust fund trying to stop the shit coming from your mouth and ass.

BearLover
I don't speak for every Cornell fan apparently, but I definitely speak for that far majority of them when I say that Yale or Q winning it all is the closest thing possible to being punched in the balls short of Harvard winning.

(emphasis mine)

Is that a fact? I'd love to take a look at your data results and examine your survey methodology. Of course, I am assuming you adequately surveyed the ~4,000 or so Cornell fans who attend games at Lynah regularly in a given season (not to mention an unspecified number of out-of-town Cornell fans who follow the team) in order to make such a bold assertion as to claim to "definitely speak" for a "far majority" of Cornell fans.

BearLover

Kyle Rose

KeithK
WEll, an ECAC team is going to win this year and we'll have the effects of that (good or bad) whether we weanted them or not.

Yup: there's nothing I could do about it even if I agreed with ButtLover. At this point, IMO it would be fine if both Q and Yale lost; fortunately for the ECAC, that is not a possible outcome.

Are you 5? And yeah, fortunately for the ECAC, unfortunately for Cornell.

ScrewBU might be a "troll," but he is raises some good points:
-the top posters on this forum are not representative of the average Cornell fan, and definitely not of the students
-there is a tremendous amount of circle jerking between the established posters here
-if you disagree with the established posters, you are labeled a troll

So you're criticising Kyle's name calling (and rightly so) and then using similar imagery to describe the established posters here? Nice!

Of course the established posters here are not representative of the average Cornell fan. They are a self-selected set of people who are so interested in Cornell hockey that they spend large amounts of time reading and posting to this board. They also tend to ave been around for many years, which means that they are alums and often older alums and thus not surprisingly aren't representative of the current students.

I'm not going to claim that there aren't some unwarranted accusations of "troll" thrown out on occasion (just like there have been some genuine trolls). But mostly this place is a pretty rasonable environment for disussion even of dissenting views. I for one am happy to hear 'em even if I may waste lots of time typing up counter arguments.

I think BearLover's arguments are being given too little credence. It's interesting that most serious posters, by which I guess I mean long-time posters whom I would usually agree with, are on the other side of the debate. (In the context of this discussion only, I might almost say Very Serious Posters, but I suppose that's not really fair.)

Have we really been losing that many recruits because the league has been perceived to be weak? Someone who knows can set me straight. It seems we lose more to academic standards and financial concerns. Would we really be in a stronger recruiting position when other ECAC (let alone Ivy) schools are as strong or stronger than us, when we are not uniquely (with a partial allowance for Harvard) the school with academic standards, a historically strong program, and a great atmosphere (admittedly not quite what it used to be)? I would rather be the big school in a small pond--meaning big enough to compete at the highest level--as opposed to one of a number of ECAC schools, competitive and good, but from which we do not stand out.

Whatever the actual benefits, and I think they're overstated if not possibly negligible or negative, and while at some academic level I want to see the league do well, emotionally I, too, don't really have a good feeling about tonight's developments.

I want Cornell to be the one to win a championship. If we now do it in the near future, it will be less special. I want Cornell to be unique. I wonder what Schafer and the players think--not lip service to it being great for the league, but truly? I wouldn't be surprised if it's a little like the feelings I'm expressing here.

I used to be strongly for my league when my team was eliminated (for example, the NL in MLB). In recent decades, I've kind of lost that attitude. In baseball, I now say at the time of the World Series, I wish it would rain until spring training (ignoring the existence of stadiums with domes). Here, I could say I wish ice would not stay frozen. I used to be for the team that eliminated my team; I still have that preference to some extent. I used to hate the Yankees. In more recent times, as that waned, I'm just as happy if they win rather than some team I feel more competitive with--one more win just gets lost in the mix. In the same way, it would not bother me if Michigan, say, won another, whereas Yale winning is too close to home. Quinnipiac bothers me less because one can at least say they have lower academic standards and scholarships.

While it seems long ago now, I actually rooted hard for Harvard's championship team. But I thought that was an admirable team in many ways and always liked Lane MacDonald and Bourbeau as well.

Chuck Henderson
I think BearLover's arguments are being given too little credence. It's interesting that most serious posters, by which I guess I mean long-time posters whom I would usually agree with, are on the other side of the debate. (In the context of this discussion only, I might almost say Very Serious Posters, but I suppose that's not really fair.)

Have we really been losing that many recruits because the league has been perceived to be weak? Someone who knows can set me straight. It seems we lose more to academic standards and financial concerns. Would we really be in a stronger recruiting position when other ECAC (let alone Ivy) schools are as strong or stronger than us, when we are not uniquely (with a partial allowance for Harvard) the school with academic standards, a historically strong program, and a great atmosphere (admittedly not quite what it used to be)? I would rather be the big school in a small pond--meaning big enough to compete at the highest level--as opposed to one of a number of ECAC schools, competitive and good, but from which we do not stand out.

Whatever the actual benefits, and I think they're overstated if not possibly negligible or negative, and while at some academic level I want to see the league do well, emotionally I, too, don't really have a good feeling about tonight's developments.

I want Cornell to be the one to win a championship. If we now do it in the near future, it will be less special. I want Cornell to be unique. I wonder what Schafer and the players think--not lip service to it being great for the league, but truly? I wouldn't be surprised if it's a little like the feelings I'm expressing here.

I used to be strongly for my league when my team was eliminated (for example, the NL in MLB). In recent decades, I've kind of lost that attitude. In baseball, I now say at the time of the World Series, I wish it would rain until spring training (ignoring the existence of stadiums with domes). Here, I could say I wish ice would not stay frozen. I used to be for the team that eliminated my team; I still have that preference to some extent. I used to hate the Yankees. In more recent times, as that waned, I'm just as happy if they win rather than some team I feel more competitive with--one more win just gets lost in the mix. In the same way, it would not bother me if Michigan, say, won another, whereas Yale winning is too close to home. Quinnipiac bothers me less because one can at least say they have lower academic standards and scholarships.

While it seems long ago now, I actually rooted hard for Harvard's championship team. But I thought that was an admirable team in many ways and always liked Lane MacDonald and Bourbeau as well.

Thank you for the support, and very well said. It's sad, but I really do not see this as a good thing for Cornell Hockey at all. And emotionally, this really stinks.

I'd rather be a big fish in a small pond than just a regular fish in a pond where another fish is champion.

Seriously? Name-calling, taunting, flames, etc. -- this is what this thread has devolved into? I get that you're all passionate and emotional, but come on, this is the kind of crap that ruins practically every USCHO thread out there. The possibility that I share the label "Cornell hockey fan" with some of the posters in this thread (on both sides of whatever argument this is) is more embarrassing than anything the Big Red has done over the last however-many years.

(Cue predictable responses)

Yeah, I'm not sure why Kyle felt the need to take a reasonable conversation on the pros and cons of the situation and devolve it into a string of name-calling and trite, meaningless internet memes.

I'm surprised he didn't find room for a "tl;dr" or an animated .gif.

Definitely not the thread-turn I expected this morning.