Generic Off Season Thread

CAS
Remember the Barclay and Pru Centers each have only 1 tenant next year. Izod has zero. You think an ECAC tourney in the NY metro area, with Cornell involved, will draw fewer than 5-6K? If fewer than half the Cornell fans for Red Hot Hockey attend, and none from the other 3 schools, attendance would be higher. The games should be played where the fans are!

So get NYC to bid on it. I guarantee you I wouldn't complain about being able to take a ten-minute subway trip from my home to the ECACs. I just don't think it's as practical as you do.

Since this is a generic offseason thread and this debate is pointless and somewhat boring, here's an article by Ken Dryden about the violence in the first round of this year's NHL playoffs.

CAS
Remember the Barclay and Pru Centers each have only 1 tenant next year. Izod has zero. You think an ECAC tourney in the NY metro area, with Cornell involved, will draw fewer than 5-6K? If fewer than half the Cornell fans for Red Hot Hockey attend, and none from the other 3 schools, attendance would be higher. The games should be played where the fans are!

Lynah!

OK - so, not No. 1 most of the year. Close enough for government work. As we've seen, my recall isn't great ... but ... I don't recall 2002 having such a buzz that it should've bumped Lake Placid's attendance accordingly.

NYC is a non-starter -- for all the reasons mentioned, and for another reason not mentioned ... It would cost the ECAC a lot of money to get into one of those buildings. Not gonna happen. Also, no building there has ever bid.

If the hotel issue is resolved - would that help?

I'll be interested in what the coaches say upon return from Naples.

@Judy -- no problem, but you have to drive yourself to Philly-ish first

I am not getting in a steel cage match with Beeeej. He's bigger than me. And angrier

adamw
If the hotel issue is resolved - would that help?

It would certainly help if they didn't have their draconian seven-day cancellation policy, but that's not the entire problem. As someone else mentioned, the halfway-decent places are also quite expensive - and there aren't enough rooms in town, so if you're not quick, or if you can't afford the in-town ones, you're in Saranac Lake, Tupper Lake, Keene, or Wilmington (or that awful hostel in North Elba), and you have to find a place to park once you get into town.

I am not getting in a steel cage match with Beeeej. He's bigger than me. And angrier

YOU TAKE THAT BACK!!!

Jim Hyla

CAS
Remember the Barclay and Pru Centers each have only 1 tenant next year. Izod has zero. You think an ECAC tourney in the NY metro area, with Cornell involved, will draw fewer than 5-6K? If fewer than half the Cornell fans for Red Hot Hockey attend, and none from the other 3 schools, attendance would be higher. The games should be played where the fans are!

Lynah!

Yes, why not Lynah? They should hold it at the site of the highest seed, as long as that arena has a predetermined minimum number of seats. If the 1 seed doesn't have a big enough arena, then have it at the highest seed that does. If no arena has enough seats (How likely is this? What is the seating of each ECAC hockey rink?) then hold it at a neutral site (Lynah).

Correct me if I'm wrong but the only rink large enough would be The Morgue in Troy at RIP. Ugh.

Robb
Jeebus. Stop all this bickering! I hate coming to the forum in the offseason and seeing 32 new posts! There's never any good news in the offseason...

Fifty-plus posts in a day usually means the thread went sideways: the mediocrity that is Albany on weekends and the distance to Lake Place to the cost of driving long distances to why professors are dicks if they don't bicycle to class.

Boston's expensive, too, but everybody knows somebody they can crash with. In metro New York it might mean staying with your parents.

billhoward
Boston's expensive, too, .....

But there's so much to do in Boston, it's worth the price to go there. Even when we were younger & money was tighter, we never complained about the expense of Boston. That was just the price of a good time. We went nearly every year and had all year to prepare for it. Even though money was sometimes VERY tight, no big deal!! LP?? Not so much!!

redice

billhoward
Boston's expensive, too, .....

But there's so much to do in Boston, it's worth the price to go there. Even when we were younger & money was tighter, we never complained about the expense of Boston. That was just the price of a good time. We went nearly every year and had all year to prepare for it. Even though money was sometimes VERY tight, no big deal!! LP?? Not so much!!

When I was an undergrad, old alums used to wax rhapsodic about beating Michigan. In football. And we thought how impossibly long ago that was. Telling today's undergrads about the glories of the ECACs in Boston is equally distant in the rear view mirror. Yes, it was wondrous. If ever Boston Garden held, say, a kickoff classic over Thanksgiving weekend in a year with no MSG tournament, Cornell should accept the invite. But I can't see the ECAC going back for hockey, because you know we'd get second billing to Hockey East. And Albany not Boston is the geographic center of ECAC hockey even if it's not as exciting. Still better than putting an event in the geographic center of country, Lebanon, Kansas, pop. 210.

jtn27
Yes, why not Lynah? They should hold it at the site of the highest seed, as long as that arena has a predetermined minimum number of seats. If the 1 seed doesn't have a big enough arena, then have it at the highest seed that does. If no arena has enough seats (How likely is this? What is the seating of each ECAC hockey rink?) then hold it at a neutral site (Lynah).

Houston Field House (RPI): 4780
Thompson Arena (Dartmouth): 4500
Lynah Rink: 4267
Ingalls Rink (Yale): 3500
TD Banks Sports Center (Quinnipiac): 3386
Meehan Auditorium (Brown): 3100
Appleton Auditorium (SLU): 3000
Cheel Arena (Clarkson): 3000
Bright Hockey Center (Harvard): 2850
Starr Rink (Colgate): 2246
Messa Rink (Union: 2225
Hobey Baker Rink (Princeton): 2092

Without a Peer is a fan of this idea. It was the idea of B1G before they realized that there were two classes of arena size in the future B1G Hockey that made it an untenable and fan-unfriendly approach because there are arena haves (Minnesota, Ohio State, Wisconsin with 10,000+ capacity) and have-nots (Michigan, Michigan State, Penn State with around 6,500). The ECAC is more of a continuum than a punctuated distinction in rink size. Half have more than a capacity of 3,000, half have less. It still seems like an untenable option even for a tournament as sparsely attended as that of the ECAC.

Aaron M. Griffin

jtn27
Yes, why not Lynah? They should hold it at the site of the highest seed, as long as that arena has a predetermined minimum number of seats. If the 1 seed doesn't have a big enough arena, then have it at the highest seed that does. If no arena has enough seats (How likely is this? What is the seating of each ECAC hockey rink?) then hold it at a neutral site (Lynah).

TD Banks Sports Center (Quinnipiac): 3386

Puzzling that Q would build their new rink with such little capacity.

Al DeFlorio

Aaron M. Griffin

jtn27
Yes, why not Lynah? They should hold it at the site of the highest seed, as long as that arena has a predetermined minimum number of seats. If the 1 seed doesn't have a big enough arena, then have it at the highest seed that does. If no arena has enough seats (How likely is this? What is the seating of each ECAC hockey rink?) then hold it at a neutral site (Lynah).

TD Banks Sports Center (Quinnipiac): 3386

Puzzling that Q would build their new rink with such little capacity.

Not really. They probably were not expecting to get many fans at the games. If I'm not mistaken, as it is now, they only sell out a few games a year. Building a significantly larger arena would have been a waste of money.

Aaron M. Griffin

jtn27
Yes, why not Lynah? They should hold it at the site of the highest seed, as long as that arena has a predetermined minimum number of seats. If the 1 seed doesn't have a big enough arena, then have it at the highest seed that does. If no arena has enough seats (How likely is this? What is the seating of each ECAC hockey rink?) then hold it at a neutral site (Lynah).

Houston Field House (RPI): 4780
Thompson Arena (Dartmouth): 4500
Lynah Rink: 4267
Ingalls Rink (Yale): 3500
TD Banks Sports Center (Quinnipiac): 3386
Meehan Auditorium (Brown): 3100
Appleton Auditorium (SLU): 3000
Cheel Arena (Clarkson): 3000
Bright Hockey Center (Harvard): 2850
Starr Rink (Colgate): 2246
Messa Rink (Union: 2225
Hobey Baker Rink (Princeton): 2092

Without a Peer is a fan of this idea. It was the idea of B1G before they realized that there were two classes of arena size in the future B1G Hockey that made it an untenable and fan-unfriendly approach because there are arena haves (Minnesota, Ohio State, Wisconsin with 10,000+ capacity) and have-nots (Michigan, Michigan State, Penn State with around 6,500). The ECAC is more of a continuum than a punctuated distinction in rink size. Half have more than a capacity of 3,000, half have less. It still seems like an untenable option even for a tournament as sparsely attended as that of the ECAC.

It might not be untenable. This year attendance for the ECAC Final was 4,131 according to ECAC's website. It was actually probably lower than that since the website says the attendance for the consolation game was 0, so that 4,131 was probably the total figure for both games. The 3 biggest rinks can hold more than that. Yale's rink probably is big enough too. In fact, you might be able to get away with holding it at any rink with seating over 3000 (though I would understand the league wanted to set the minimum number of seats at 3,500 or 4,000). To make sure that most people who want to go can go, instead of selling tickets good for both games (which leads to half the ticket holders only going to one game) or making fans guess whether they want to go to the consolation game or the championship game, they should sell tickets by team. For example, if you buy a Cornell ticket, you get to go to whatever game Cornell is in, but not the other one unless you bought a ticket for that one too.

Al DeFlorio

Aaron M. Griffin

jtn27
Yes, why not Lynah? They should hold it at the site of the highest seed, as long as that arena has a predetermined minimum number of seats. If the 1 seed doesn't have a big enough arena, then have it at the highest seed that does. If no arena has enough seats (How likely is this? What is the seating of each ECAC hockey rink?) then hold it at a neutral site (Lynah).

TD Banks Sports Center (Quinnipiac): 3386

Puzzling that Q would build their new rink with such little capacity.

Maybe Q is realistic about its odds of drawing 5,000-plus per game. If they had a huge rink and real success in the ECAC, they'd probably decamp for Hockey East. Q's basketball court in the same complex doesn't hold much more.

billhoward

redice

billhoward
Boston's expensive, too, .....

But there's so much to do in Boston, it's worth the price to go there. Even when we were younger & money was tighter, we never complained about the expense of Boston. That was just the price of a good time. We went nearly every year and had all year to prepare for it. Even though money was sometimes VERY tight, no big deal!! LP?? Not so much!!

When I was an undergrad, old alums used to wax rhapsodic about beating Michigan. In football. And we thought how impossibly long ago that was. Telling today's undergrads about the glories of the ECACs in Boston is equally distant in the rear view mirror. Yes, it was wondrous. If ever Boston Garden held, say, a kickoff classic over Thanksgiving weekend in a year with no MSG tournament, Cornell should accept the invite. But I can't see the ECAC going back for hockey, because you know we'd get second billing to Hockey East. And Albany not Boston is the geographic center of ECAC hockey even if it's not as exciting. Still better than putting an event in the geographic center of country, Lebanon, Kansas, pop. 210.

I wholeheartedly agree with that dose of reality, Bill. I have previously stated that, despite my fondness for tournaments in Boston, I know that the ECAC finals are not likely to be held there again. I am accepting of that. My point, while not well stated was that Boston was worth the price, LP is not.

I agree with you about desirability: Boston is one of America's truly great cities, maybe the best city if you're under 30, like hockey, and can handle winters. Because we can't go back 25+ years to Boston ECACs, I was wondering wistfully if there's a way to get Cornell involved in some kind of hockey in Boston beyond the one Harvard game. Christmas would be ideal except we're a founder of the Florida Classic. A Martin Luther King Day Hockey Classic? Unlikely for too many reasons. The one that remains is something over Thanksgiving in a year when we're not playing at MSG.

billhoward
Because we can't go back 25+ years to Boston ECACs, I was wondering wistfully if there's a way to get Cornell involved in some kind of hockey in Boston beyond the one Harvard game. Christmas would be ideal except we're a founder of the Florida Classic. A Martin Luther King Day Hockey Classic? Unlikely for too many reasons. The one that remains is something over Thanksgiving in a year when we're not playing at MSG.

If we were going to start a new holiday tournament tradition, I'd prefer it be someplace we are looking to penetrate for recruiting. Like Vancouver. Or Prague.

Trotsky

billhoward
Because we can't go back 25+ years to Boston ECACs, I was wondering wistfully if there's a way to get Cornell involved in some kind of hockey in Boston beyond the one Harvard game. Christmas would be ideal except we're a founder of the Florida Classic. A Martin Luther King Day Hockey Classic? Unlikely for too many reasons. The one that remains is something over Thanksgiving in a year when we're not playing at MSG.

If we were going to start a new holiday tournament tradition, I'd prefer it be someplace we are looking to penetrate for recruiting. Like Vancouver. Or Prague.

From afar, recruits could follow Cornell on Redc--never mind, point taken.

So Adam's article gets reprinted in the Lake Placid News. Although it looks like they're not really sure about the author's authenticity.

By ADAM?WODON

Jim Hyla
So Adam's article gets reprinted in the Lake Placid News. Although it looks like they're not really sure about the author's authenticity.

By ADAM?WODON

They resorted to the original Norse.

Jim Hyla
So Adam's article gets reprinted in the Lake Placid News. Although it looks like they're not really sure about the author's authenticity.

By ADAM?WODON

He's also "Special to the News." Nowhere does it mention that the article was published elsewhere.

Adam, I for one prefer Lake Placid. Maybe it's just you and me and a few others. I get gouged there for kids hockey tournaments and I still love it. It has a lot of charm and I like the rink, the restaurants, etc. I'm fairly close to Bridgeport in Northern NJ but I'll take LP any day.

I'm shocked at Q's rink capacity, I've been there and I would have guessed that it's much larger. It's certainly very yellow, maybe that's throwing me off.

adamw

Aaron M. Griffin
Why need we become complacent with the level of success that the ECAC has?

BTW - Cornell has been even closer to the FF a bunch of times in the last 10 years - so using them as a yardstick is not saying much. Cornell has always been the standard bearer, sometimes by itself. Getting Union to the FF is the only thing different about this year compared to anything else in the last 10 years. Not much of a difference. There's no question that the ECAC has been "competitive" as a whole over the last decade, so I don't see that as an issue.

When were they closer? I am not being contrary, I am sincerely curious when since 2002 you think that Cornell was closer. The only time that comes to mind is 2006 with Wisconsin in triple overtime. Cornell made the tournament in that span in 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2009, 2010, and 2012. 2003 is out of contention for the "closer" category, unless you are going to say it is infinitely close because Cornell made it that year. I was a student during 2009 and 2010. So, I am very familiar with those contests and the disappointment that followed. Both of those years, especially 2010, Cornell should have been closer, but it wasn't. That leaves 2002 and 2005, considering that we agree that taking the eventual national champion to three overtimes is closer than a goal induced from an inopportunely breaking stick.

2002, Cornell beats Quinnipiac to face UNH. Cornell loses to UNH, 4-3 in regulation. This involved Cornell beating a lower seeded Quinnipiac and losing to a higher seeded UNH.

2005, Cornell beats Ohio State to face Minnesota. Cornell loses to Minnesota in the first overtime, 2-1. This involved Cornell beating a lower seeded third seed and then advancing to face a one seed.

The reason why I would argue that this year felt psychologically closer was because Cornell entered as the lowest seed in the bracket, knocked off a team that many had said would be the only legitimate challenger to BC in the title game, and advanced to play a lower seed than the opponent that Cornell had beaten already. Both in 2002 and 2005, Cornell defeated an opponent and advanced to play an opponent seeded higher than Cornell's previous opponent. This year, it seemed like the hardest part of getting out of the Midwestern Regional was accomplished by beating Michigan. Also, considering this is all subjective, there's the psychological effect of momentum when one beats a national college hockey brand, like Michigan. Cornell advanced to play brands in 2002 and 2005 after eliminating teams that have not established themselves as national brands in the sport.

RatushnyFan
Adam, I for one prefer Lake Placid. Maybe it's just you and me and a few others. I get gouged there for kids hockey tournaments and I still love it. It has a lot of charm and I like the rink, the restaurants, etc. I'm fairly close to Bridgeport in Northern NJ but I'll take LP any day.

I'm on board with Lake Placid too, as I have said. My only concerns are if it will allow the ECAC to rebrand and remarket itself to a national audience through television and other media. I am not a big fan of the it-is-what-it-is mantra.

Also, others have voiced concerns with the locker rooms and other amenities with which the players will have to cope. I don't know anything about that fact, but that might affect how much wisdom I think there is in an otherwise appealing idea.

Aaron M. Griffin
The reason why I would argue that this year felt psychologically closer was because Cornell entered as the lowest seed in the bracket, knocked off a team that many had said would be the only legitimate challenger to BC in the title game, and advanced to play a lower seed than the opponent that Cornell had beaten already.

Another reason it may have felt "closer" is the overall decline in the "big three" conferences. I would say the odds of having an ECAC team go all the way over the next few seasons are far higher than at any time since the "super teams" out of Harvard and the North Country in the late 80's/early 90's.

jtn27

Jim Hyla
So Adam's article gets reprinted in the Lake Placid News. Although it looks like they're not really sure about the author's authenticity.

By ADAM?WODON

He's also "Special to the News." Nowhere does it mention that the article was published elsewhere.

Right. Lake Placid residents like feeling this was written special for them. Last time I drove by, the world HQ of the LP paper was the size of a mom & pop liquor store. This is not the Murdoch empire.

Usually when the off-season thread loses steam, someone raises the spectre of Mike Schafer being recruited to the pros, or some cash-rich (before legal fees) places such as Penn State or The Ohio State offering him $500K and rights to hire the woman riding the back of Bobby Petrino's motorcycle.

The locker rooms in Lake Placid (not Atlantic City)? They're okay for something used and overused by the youth hockey tournaments and CanAm camp in the summer. I couldn't imagine that being the deciding factor. Adam Wodon's point from his column remains key: We (ECAC) are no longer big stuff and we need to have realistic expectations for who'll welcome us and how many fans will show up for the tournament.

RatushnyFan
Adam, I for one prefer Lake Placid. Maybe it's just you and me and a few others. I get gouged there for kids hockey tournaments and I still love it. It has a lot of charm and I like the rink, the restaurants, etc. I'm fairly close to Bridgeport in Northern NJ but I'll take LP any day.

I'm shocked at Q's rink capacity, I've been there and I would have guessed that it's much larger. It's certainly very yellow, maybe that's throwing me off.

Nothing wrong with other people overspending. But how big should Q have built the arena? It's 3286 now and the mirror image basketball arena across the concours is 3586. (Only RPI and Cornell are above 4,000; Dartmouth is listed as 4500 but that's 3500 + 1000 standing.) Doubtful Q would let the hockey rink be 5000 without making hoops similarly large and the facility cost as built topped $50 million. Note photo of the rink as posted by the architects:

[clear]

This could either be attendance-as-usual or the third period of a sellout game and the students left at the second intermission to get ready for the parties.

billhoward
Usually when the off-season thread loses steam, someone raises the spectre of Mike Schafer being recruited to the pros, or some cash-rich (before legal fees) places such as Penn State or The Ohio State offering him $500K and rights to hire the woman riding the back of Bobby Petrino's motorcycle.

And you're bringing it up because nobody's brought it up?

Beeeej

billhoward
Usually when the off-season thread loses steam, someone raises the spectre of Mike Schafer being recruited to the pros, or some cash-rich (before legal fees) places such as Penn State or The Ohio State offering him $500K and rights to hire the woman riding the back of Bobby Petrino's motorcycle.

And you're bringing it up because nobody's brought it up?

Conversation starter while waiting for more speculation on Rob Pannell's foot.

billhoward

RatushnyFan
Adam, I for one prefer Lake Placid. Maybe it's just you and me and a few others. I get gouged there for kids hockey tournaments and I still love it. It has a lot of charm and I like the rink, the restaurants, etc. I'm fairly close to Bridgeport in Northern NJ but I'll take LP any day.

I'm shocked at Q's rink capacity, I've been there and I would have guessed that it's much larger. It's certainly very yellow, maybe that's throwing me off.

Nothing wrong with other people overspending. But how big should Q have built the arena? It's 3286 now and the mirror image basketball arena across the concours is 3586. (Only RPI and Cornell are above 4,000; Dartmouth is listed as 4500 but that's 3500 + 1000 standing.) Doubtful Q would let the hockey rink be 5000 without making hoops similarly large and the facility cost as built topped $50 million. Note photo of the rink as posted by the architects:

1.jpg

[clear]

This could either be attendance-as-usual or the third period of a sellout game and the students left at the second intermission to get ready for the parties.

The student sections are still there, all wearing yellow in the back right of the photo. They don't sit in other parts of the arena. The visitor section is the one with the giant hole in it near the center of the image.

Hockey rinks have a lifespan of at least fifty years (see Houston, Lynah, and Ingalls as notable examples). I suspect when Lynah and Ingalls were built no one expected them to sell out consistently, and they certainly didn't during their first five years. But I'll bet today both Cornell and Yale wish they had an additional 1000 or so seats.

Fifty years ago Quinnipiac was a small commuter school offering little but a business curriculum with not much of a reputation (started life in the 1920s as Connecticut College of Commerce and subsequently changed its name to Junior College of Commerce). It actually shut down during World War II. In the 1950s when I was growing up in New Haven its teams were part of the NAIA, if anyone here has heard of that.

The University has grown dramatically and ambitiously in the past fifty years, now offering 52 undergraduate majors, 20 graduate programs, and a JD program. State-of-the-art facilities have been built for the law center and the communication and business programs. Its new medical school is scheduled to open next year. Its athletic programs are now NCAA Division I and it wasn't that many years ago that it moved up to ECACH from what was then viewed as the minor leagues. Given the ambitiousness Q has demonstrated in trying to make themselves a nationally-known institution it just seems to me that it was short-sighted to build a 50+ year asset at the size they did.

Al DeFlorio
Fifty years ago Quinnipiac was a small commuter school offering little but a business curriculum with not much of a reputation (started life in the 1920s as Connecticut College of Commerce and subsequently changed its name to Junior College of Commerce). It actually shut down during World War II. In the 1950s when I was growing up in New Haven its teams were part of the NAIA, if anyone here has heard of that.

The University has grown dramatically and ambitiously in the past fifty years, now offering 52 undergraduate majors, 20 graduate programs, and a JD program. State-of-the-art facilities have been built for the law center and the communication and business programs. Its new medical school is scheduled to open next year. Its athletic programs are now NCAA Division I and it wasn't that many years ago that it moved up to ECACH from what was then viewed as the minor leagues.

Sounds great! How do I apply? You do work for the Quinnipiac admissions office, right?

Trotsky

Aaron M. Griffin
The reason why I would argue that this year felt psychologically closer was because Cornell entered as the lowest seed in the bracket, knocked off a team that many had said would be the only legitimate challenger to BC in the title game, and advanced to play a lower seed than the opponent that Cornell had beaten already.

Another reason it may have felt "closer" is the overall decline in the "big three" conferences. I would say the odds of having an ECAC team go all the way over the next few seasons are far higher than at any time since the "super teams" out of Harvard and the North Country in the late 80's/early 90's.

I agree. I think the next few years will be interesting. Cornell, Harvard, and Union look like teams that will be able to challenge nationally next season and/or soon thereafter. Sucks's post-season propaganda has shown a certain level of, dare I say, pride, passion, and ambition.

Ted Donato
It was a year that, to me, really reestablished some of the greatness of Harvard hockey. I think that we certainly want to build upon it and take it to the next step...A lot of building blocks were put in place for the future and I think our guys that are coming back really have that taste of having some success, having a chance to make it the league championship game, and I think that we want to take it to the next level next year.

If you want to see the whole video:




I know that most on here wish Sucks ill in most things, but I just think back to Dryden's quote from The Game and think that Cornell's primary rival doing well helps Cornell in the grand scheme:

Ken Dryden
They were the necessary other side in many of my most fundamental moments, the inspiration and competitive prod for them, irrevocably and fondly associated with them...When a career ends, when the passion of the game subsides, towards a good opponent you only feel gratitude.

RichH

billhoward

RatushnyFan
Adam, I for one prefer Lake Placid. Maybe it's just you and me and a few others. I get gouged there for kids hockey tournaments and I still love it. It has a lot of charm and I like the rink, the restaurants, etc. I'm fairly close to Bridgeport in Northern NJ but I'll take LP any day.

I'm shocked at Q's rink capacity, I've been there and I would have guessed that it's much larger. It's certainly very yellow, maybe that's throwing me off.

Nothing wrong with other people overspending. But how big should Q have built the arena? It's 3286 now and the mirror image basketball arena across the concours is 3586. (Only RPI and Cornell are above 4,000; Dartmouth is listed as 4500 but that's 3500 + 1000 standing.) Doubtful Q would let the hockey rink be 5000 without making hoops similarly large and the facility cost as built topped $50 million. Note photo of the rink as posted by the architects:

1.jpg

[clear]

This could either be attendance-as-usual or the third period of a sellout game and the students left at the second intermission to get ready for the parties.

The student sections are still there, all wearing yellow in the back right of the photo. They don't sit in other parts of the arena. The visitor section is the one with the giant hole in it near the center of the image.

Which isn't that surprising when you consider that they look to be playing Harvard.

(At first I thought it was vs. Cornell, but as far as I can tell, Cornell has never had a vertical stripe on the pants.)

billhoward
Usually when the off-season thread loses steam, someone raises the spectre of Mike Schafer being recruited to the pros, or some cash-rich (before legal fees) places such as Penn State or The Ohio State offering him $500K and rights to hire the woman riding the back of Bobby Petrino's motorcycle.

Ohio State would just buy the woman and the motorcycle and give it to him, so that's why no one has said it. It's an unrealistic scenario.

billhoward
Usually when the off-season thread loses steam, someone raises the spectre of Mike Schafer being recruited to the pros, or some cash-rich (before legal fees) places such as Penn State or The Ohio State offering him $500K and rights to hire the woman riding the back of Bobby Petrino's motorcycle.

And you had to go and say that... why?

Josh '99
(At first I thought it was vs. Cornell, but as far as I can tell, Cornell has never had a vertical stripe on the pants.)

Cornell did at one time.

Also, in the video I made before the ECAC Tournament, one can see the stripe still on the pants during the 1996 ECAC Championship Final footage.

However, you're right, it is Harvard.

jtn27

Al DeFlorio
Fifty years ago Quinnipiac was a small commuter school offering little but a business curriculum with not much of a reputation (started life in the 1920s as Connecticut College of Commerce and subsequently changed its name to Junior College of Commerce). It actually shut down during World War II. In the 1950s when I was growing up in New Haven its teams were part of the NAIA, if anyone here has heard of that.

The University has grown dramatically and ambitiously in the past fifty years, now offering 52 undergraduate majors, 20 graduate programs, and a JD program. State-of-the-art facilities have been built for the law center and the communication and business programs. Its new medical school is scheduled to open next year. Its athletic programs are now NCAA Division I and it wasn't that many years ago that it moved up to ECACH from what was then viewed as the minor leagues.

Sounds great! How do I apply? You do work for the Quinnipiac admissions office, right?

Al graciously leaves unsaid that the J-school is the Ed McMahon School of Communications. Imagine a School with the motto, suitably done up in Latin, as "Right You Are, Johnny." Never sure if Ed's claim to fame was as Johnny Carson's sidekick, spokesmodel for Publisher's Clearing House, or for giving so much money to Q that he died broke. Another personal data point about Q: A friend's daughter partied her way through high school and then when at Q found there was too much partying. She departed. There's a running joke that the No. 1 Like for students attending Q is that it looks like a country club, and the No. 1 dislike is that it looks like a country club.

Josh '99

billhoward
Usually when the off-season thread loses steam, someone raises the spectre of Mike Schafer being recruited to the pros, or some cash-rich (before legal fees) places such as Penn State or The Ohio State offering him $500K and rights to hire the woman riding the back of Bobby Petrino's motorcycle.

And you had to go and say that... why?

The woofing gods are busy elsewhere. They saw a column on Amare Stoudemire's new maturity and work ethic and then strategically placed a few more fire extinguishers in MSG.

Ben Syer promoted to associate head coach

Cop at Lynah
Ben Syer promoted to associate head coach

Have we ever figured out exactly what that means? Is it like being tenure track?

Trotsky

Cop at Lynah
Ben Syer promoted to associate head coach

Have we ever figured out exactly what that means? Is it like being tenure track?

It's an administrative difference; typically, "associate" positions are one pay band above "assistant" positions, which means that the minimum salary for the position is higher (though it's possible for someone in a lower band to be making more than someone in a higher band). They also typically have a little more repsonsibility, and sometimes a little more supervisory repsonsibility .

So, with the caveat that this is completely on a guessing/theoretical level, while the assistant and associate head coaches may both participate more or less the same way in practices and at games, the associate head coach may have greater recruiting responsibilities and may have the equipment manager and the trainer as his direct reports.

jtn27

Jim Hyla
So Adam's article gets reprinted in the Lake Placid News. Although it looks like they're not really sure about the author's authenticity.

By ADAM?WODON

He's also "Special to the News." Nowhere does it mention that the article was published elsewhere.

Really? They were supposed to do this as an express condition of reprinting.

billhoward
Adam Wodon's point from his column remains key: We (ECAC) are no longer big stuff and we need to have realistic expectations for who'll welcome us and how many fans will show up for the tournament.

That ... however, I believe most of the eLynah opponents of Lake Placid understand this point. ... So, my point was not just about having realistic expectations - but moreso, given those expectations, what's the only place that could actually boost the league's profile?

Beeeej

Trotsky

Cop at Lynah
Ben Syer promoted to associate head coach

Have we ever figured out exactly what that means? Is it like being tenure track?

It's an administrative difference; typically, "associate" positions are one pay band above "assistant" positions, which means that the minimum salary for the position is higher (though it's possible for someone in a lower band to be making more than someone in a higher band). They also typically have a little more repsonsibility, and sometimes a little more supervisory repsonsibility .

So, with the caveat that this is completely on a guessing/theoretical level, while the assistant and associate head coaches may both participate more or less the same way in practices and at games, the associate head coach may have greater recruiting responsibilities and may have the equipment manager and the trainer as his direct reports.

Thanks.

adamw

billhoward
Adam Wodon's point from his column remains key: We (ECAC) are no longer big stuff and we need to have realistic expectations for who'll welcome us and how many fans will show up for the tournament.

That ... however, I believe most of the eLynah opponents of Lake Placid understand this point. ... So, my point was not just about having realistic expectations - but moreso, given those expectations, what's the only place that could actually boost the league's profile?

And that's the part I've been struggling with slightly...that the main argument is...marketing? I'm just not buying that in exchange for the greater inconveniences for a good number of fans.

The benefits to the league are what? More eager television partnerships, I guess. I can't really believe that it would have that big an impact on recruitment. League tournament location is most likely far down the list of recruit concerns after hockey facilities, coaching, educational quality, financial benefits, consistent media exposure, geographic preferences, etc.

billhoward

jtn27

Al DeFlorio
Fifty years ago Quinnipiac was a small commuter school offering little but a business curriculum with not much of a reputation (started life in the 1920s as Connecticut College of Commerce and subsequently changed its name to Junior College of Commerce). It actually shut down during World War II. In the 1950s when I was growing up in New Haven its teams were part of the NAIA, if anyone here has heard of that.

The University has grown dramatically and ambitiously in the past fifty years, now offering 52 undergraduate majors, 20 graduate programs, and a JD program. State-of-the-art facilities have been built for the law center and the communication and business programs. Its new medical school is scheduled to open next year. Its athletic programs are now NCAA Division I and it wasn't that many years ago that it moved up to ECACH from what was then viewed as the minor leagues.

Sounds great! How do I apply? You do work for the Quinnipiac admissions office, right?

Al graciously leaves unsaid that the J-school is the Ed McMahon School of Communications. Imagine a School with the motto, suitably done up in Latin, as "Right You Are, Johnny." Never sure if Ed's claim to fame was as Johnny Carson's sidekick, spokesmodel for Publisher's Clearing House, or for giving so much money to Q that he died broke. Another personal data point about Q: A friend's daughter partied her way through high school and then when at Q found there was too much partying. She departed. There's a running joke that the No. 1 Like for students attending Q is that it looks like a country club, and the No. 1 dislike is that it looks like a country club.

Do you ever get tired of reading your own rambling?

adamw
So, my point was not just about having realistic expectations - but moreso, given those expectations, what's the only place that could actually boost the league's profile?

Firstly, I think that's a pipe dream, and, secondly, I think it's much higher priority that fans of the participating teams are more easily able to see--in person--their teams play. The only thing that will "boost the league's profile" is to win games against other leagues--in the regular season and the post-season.

Al DeFlorio

adamw
So, my point was not just about having realistic expectations - but moreso, given those expectations, what's the only place that could actually boost the league's profile?

Firstly, I think that's a pipe dream, and, secondly, I think it's much higher priority that fans of the participating teams are more easily able to see--in person--their teams play. The only thing that will "boost the league's profile" is to win games against other leagues--in the regular season and the post-season.

Well, we're repeating what was already said way upthread ... but yes, winning boosts the league, clearly ... but coaches obviously believe that things like marketing and TV help recruiting, or they wouldn't be so hyped up about it all the time. And believe me, they are. So - in theory - there's a place out there that helps those things. My point being that, that place doesn't really exist - and the only place it *might* possibly exist is Lake Placid.

@Rich - league tournament location might be far down on the list - but it's not that, per se, as much it is the impression that it gives. Call it subconscious, or call me crazy - either way - your mileage may vary.

adamw
@Rich - league tournament location might be far down on the list - but it's not that, per se, as much it is the impression that it gives. Call it subconscious, or call me crazy - either way - your mileage may vary.

I agree with Rich. Unless the ECAC played in some destination city that was entirely outside the footprint of the conference and therefore warranted particular attention, I don't think that the location of the conference championships weighs that heavily in the choices of recruits. I would add to Rich's list of things that recruits consider passion of the fan base and winning traditions of the programs (there's a reason why we get better recruits than Sucks when drawing from the same pool of academically eligible athletes).

...waiting for the comment about how recently Sucks managed to get better rated recruits than Cornell has...

I do think that conference location may effect the opinions of fans and other non-players about the prestige of the conference.

Also, the NCHC was supposed to make some "big announcement" yesterday. I have not been able to find any reports of their announcement.

Al DeFlorio

adamw
So, my point was not just about having realistic expectations - but moreso, given those expectations, what's the only place that could actually boost the league's profile?

Firstly, I think that's a pipe dream, and, secondly, I think it's much higher priority that fans of the participating teams are more easily able to see--in person--their teams play. The only thing that will "boost the league's profile" is to win games against other leagues--in the regular season and the post-season.

That is it. If you don't have fans, what good is the tourney?

Unless LP can produce a much better package than they did last time, forget it. Yes the stores were fan friendly, much more so than either AC or Albany, but the hotels were not, and has been said the parking was terrible. None of those makes for a fan friendly tourney. Nice places to drink before and after the game, a better place than AC for families, but not enough easily accessible, and moderately priced hotel rooms. Not at all fan friendly. Forget it.

Why don't we spend this time seeing what Albany, who seem to want us back, has to offer. From the little bit we've heard they seem ready to show a better package. Maybe the sojurn to AC has had some benefit.

I'd bet that, if the league goes back to Lake Placid, they will address the hotel issue. If LP isn't willing to address it, it certainly won't get the bid.

adamw
I'd bet that, if the league goes back to Lake Placid, they will address the hotel issue. If LP isn't willing to address it, it certainly won't get the bid.

I'd bet that the hotel operators are independent of the venues and you are proposing "herding cats" as a condition of the bid at a time when the ECACHL is hardly in a position to be dictating much.

ugarte

adamw
I'd bet that, if the league goes back to Lake Placid, they will address the hotel issue. If LP isn't willing to address it, it certainly won't get the bid.

I'd bet that the hotel operators are independent of the venues and you are proposing "herding cats" as a condition of the bid at a time when the ECACHL is hardly in a position to be dictating much.

Hotel operators are independent, of course ... However, they also have a vested interest in getting the business. If LP organizers don't get buy in from the hotels to relax how they operate - they won't get the bid. I can't guarantee that, but I'm pretty sure it will work something like that.

adamw

ugarte

adamw
I'd bet that, if the league goes back to Lake Placid, they will address the hotel issue. If LP isn't willing to address it, it certainly won't get the bid.

I'd bet that the hotel operators are independent of the venues and you are proposing "herding cats" as a condition of the bid at a time when the ECACHL is hardly in a position to be dictating much.

Hotel operators are independent, of course ... However, they also have a vested interest in getting the business. If LP organizers don't get buy in from the hotels to relax how they operate - they won't get the bid. I can't guarantee that, but I'm pretty sure it will work something like that.

It didn't work that way the last time LP hosted the tourney. Since the hotel policies were no more popular then than now, what makes you so sure that they will handle it differently? Wishful thinking, perhaps?

Aaron M. Griffin

adamw
@Rich - league tournament location might be far down on the list - but it's not that, per se, as much it is the impression that it gives. Call it subconscious, or call me crazy - either way - your mileage may vary.

I agree with Rich. Unless the ECAC played in some destination city that was entirely outside the footprint of the conference and therefore warranted particular attention, I don't think that the location of the conference championships weighs that heavily in the choices of recruits.

Isn't Adam's point that Lake Placid IS that "destination city"?

Josh '99

Aaron M. Griffin

adamw
@Rich - league tournament location might be far down on the list - but it's not that, per se, as much it is the impression that it gives. Call it subconscious, or call me crazy - either way - your mileage may vary.

I agree with Rich. Unless the ECAC played in some destination city that was entirely outside the footprint of the conference and therefore warranted particular attention, I don't think that the location of the conference championships weighs that heavily in the choices of recruits.

Isn't Adam's point that Lake Placid IS that "destination city"?

It is, but my point (in agreement with and in addition to Rich's point(s)) is that the choice of Lake Placid in itself is not so extraordinary because it is not both a destination city (which Lake Placid is) outside of the footprint of the league. I really doubt that any prospects will weigh heavily a venue for the championships if it "makes sense" in the fact that it is within the footprint of the league. Put it in Tampa (a destination city outside of the footprint), then prospects might consider it in their calculus whether to play in the ECAC.

redice

adamw

ugarte

adamw
I'd bet that, if the league goes back to Lake Placid, they will address the hotel issue. If LP isn't willing to address it, it certainly won't get the bid.

I'd bet that the hotel operators are independent of the venues and you are proposing "herding cats" as a condition of the bid at a time when the ECACHL is hardly in a position to be dictating much.

Hotel operators are independent, of course ... However, they also have a vested interest in getting the business. If LP organizers don't get buy in from the hotels to relax how they operate - they won't get the bid. I can't guarantee that, but I'm pretty sure it will work something like that.

It didn't work that way the last time LP hosted the tourney. Since the hotel policies were no more popular then than now, what makes you so sure that they will handle it differently? Wishful thinking, perhaps?

It's not wishful thinking. I'm telling you, I'm all but certain LP won't get the bid if that doesn't change.

Has anyone checked out the Cornell hockey wiki recently? I stumbled upon it and was shocked that it contained no history as compared to those pages for Yale and Sucks.

Side note: after looking at the Harvard page, an outdoor game at Harvard Stadium seems like it would be a great idea.

Hockey Fans Throwing Weird Crap on the Ice

[www.theatlanticcities.com]

small mention of the fish tradition.

jkahn
Hockey Fans Throwing Weird Crap on the Ice

[www.theatlanticcities.com]

small mention of the fish tradition.

Sucks does it once and gets a mention? Talk about throwing inflation.

Iles gets academic award.

Penn State announced its first NCAA Division I schedule today. The Nittany Lions will be visiting our friends in Schenectady the weekend after Thanksgiving.

Aaron M. Griffin
Penn State announced its first NCAA Division I schedule today. The Nittany Lions will be visiting our friends in Schenectady the weekend after Thanksgiving.

That's a nice cupcake game for Union the same weekend we face Michigan.

[url=

Former Union standout goalie Kris Mayotte joins SLU's coaching staff.

— Brian Sullivan (@SullivanHockey) May 22, 2012

]Kris Mayotte is leaving Cornell to become an assistant coach at St. Lawrence[/url]. And, yet again, Cornell has no goalie coach.

jtn27

Aaron M. Griffin
Penn State announced its first NCAA Division I schedule today. The Nittany Lions will be visiting our friends in Schenectady the weekend after Thanksgiving.

That's a nice cupcake game for Union the same weekend we face Michigan.

I think that you might be a little too presumptuous about the Michigan game. I am losing faith that it will occur with the passage of time.

Union's OOC schedule is lackluster. They've set up a schedule that they will all but need to win the Whitelaw to get into the NCAA Tournament. Their fans and bloggers are blissfully ignorant of that fact.

I think that Penn State has more of a chance against Union than most will admit. I've watched both teams (Penn State and Union) play. If Penn State gains dependable goaltending, they could defeat Union. Penn State has a new goaltender entering in the Fall too.

Aaron M. Griffin
Union's OOC schedule is lackluster.

Agreed. They'd best hope that Merrimack continues to be good and that LSSU doesn't return to sucking egregiously.

I'm a bit disappointed for Penn State that they couldn't get a bit more bling to visit their barn. Quite a lackluster—to overuse a word—first season in D-I, if you ask me.

Aaron M. Griffin
Union's OOC schedule is lackluster. They've set up a schedule that they will all but need to win the Whitelaw to get into the NCAA Tournament. Their fans and bloggers are blissfully ignorant of that fact.

Running their OOC (or close) and the Cleary Spitoon (even with a few losses) would be enough, too. KRACH might not be impressed, but the PWR would be kinder.

For those bored at work and needing a diversion.

I learned today that Quinnipiac fans (or at least some of them) begin counting down from 10 at 4:30 left in each period to 4:20.

jtn27
I learned today that Quinnipiac fans (or at least some of them) begin counting down from 10 at 4:30 left in each period to 4:20.

I am willing to bet that they stole it from Brown.

We spent the Memorial Day weekend in Lake Placid and Friday night in a sports bar next to the rink watching the Devils-Rangers final game. The owner says he and a lot of people would love to see the ECACs back in LP (naturally; what else is going on then other then watching snow turn to mud?) and that the LP business assn doens't have its act together and that might be hurting LP support for a bid (what business owner ever thinks a business assn is well run?). I noticed a couple new or renewed hotels, even more if you count ones like the Courtyard Marriott up since the last ECAC LP tournament. Once again on a prime weekend, most have vacancy signs hung out. I think the best thing going for Lake Placid, as Adam noted, is that it's the one rink and town in our region with some sense of history. Lake Placid, Albany, and metro NYC are all okay for the next ECAC site.

I missed this article about the senior awards banquet. This thread seems as good as any to post it on.

I think this classifies as an entirely generic and possibly random off-season question.

I know that there is the panorama entitled Anthem available on the main eLynah page. However, I graduated after the recent renovations, so the picture from 2004 does not resemble what Lynah looked like while I was a student nor what it looks like currently. I was wondering if anyone knows if any similar high quality images/prints exist of Lynah that I could obtain or purchase.

I don't know if there is a similar but more recent picture, but I do know that Anthem looks even better in print than it does in digital form and you really should get a copy.

Josh '99
I don't know if there is a similar but more recent picture, but I do know that Anthem looks even better in print than it does in digital form and you really should get a copy.

I will have to get a copy. Maybe my request was a little odd, but the picture is great even if it is not exactly what I experienced during my time there.

I've certainly given serious thought to doing a new version. After I did that one, I vowed never to do it again because it was north of 60 hours of work to stitch the images together and clean up the edges, not to mention all the test prints. However, the tools (and my gear) have gotten a lot better so it would be far less painful. I'd like to also choose a less auspicious game . So if you feel like waiting, I'll make an effort to do a new one next season.

CowbellGuy
I've certainly given serious thought to doing a new version. After I did that one, I vowed never to do it again because it was north of 60 hours of work to stitch the images together and clean up the edges, not to mention all the test prints. However, the tools (and my gear) have gotten a lot better so it would be far less painful. I'd like to also choose a less auspicious game . So if you feel like waiting, I'll make an effort to do a new one next season.

Thanks for everything, Age.

Latest from USCHO on possible rules changes.

Jim Hyla
Latest from USCHO on possible rules changes.

The NCAA wants fewer tie games but doesn't want to go to 4x4 in OT or have shootouts. So the only thing left is 10- or 20-minute OTs ... and more wear on players. If Cornell is a defense-minded team, then playing 4x4 in OT would seem like playing on an Olympic sheet and not be to our style.

CowbellGuy
I've certainly given serious thought to doing a new version. After I did that one, I vowed never to do it again because it was north of 60 hours of work to stitch the images together and clean up the edges, not to mention all the test prints. However, the tools (and my gear) have gotten a lot better so it would be far less painful. I'd like to also choose a less auspicious game . So if you feel like waiting, I'll make an effort to do a new one next season.

Thanks! I have no problem with waiting. I was thinking long-term for something that I can keep and display proudly at my place. Any game you have in mind?

Jim Hyla
Latest from USCHO on possible rules changes.

My favorites include:

Jim Connelly
The committee will consider allowing goals that were scored as the defensive team dislodges the net. When Michigan State played Union in the NCAA regional tournament, an apparent Spartans goal was reviewed and disallowed when the officials determined the net, as the puck entered, was slightly raised off its pegs by a Union defender.

and

Jim Connelly
Another change would be to the criteria used for instant replay, particularly when it comes to the play being offside immediately as the goal is scored. Last season, Union scored an empty-net goal from center ice in the NCAA Northeast Regional final against Massachusetts-Lowell while a Dutchmen attacker was still in the attacking zone.

Despite clear evidence on video that the play was offside, current replay criteria does not allow the official to review whether a play is onside when the goal is scored.

It looks like Union's Frozen Four would have never been had it occurred but a year later.

billhoward

Jim Hyla
Latest from USCHO on possible rules changes.

The NCAA wants fewer tie games but doesn't want to go to 4x4 in OT or have shootouts. So the only thing left is 10- or 20-minute OTs ... and more wear on players. If Cornell is a defense-minded team, then playing 4x4 in OT would seem like playing on an Olympic sheet and not be to our style.

What is wrong with a hard fought tie in a regular season game? I'm okay with the current 5 minute (5 v 5) sudden death OT period. I'm probably one of the few people (dinosaurs?) that don't mind ties. What is so awful about ties anyway?

billhoward

Jim Hyla
Latest from USCHO on possible rules changes.

The NCAA wants fewer tie games but doesn't want to go to 4x4 in OT or have shootouts. So the only thing left is 10- or 20-minute OTs ... and more wear on players. If Cornell is a defense-minded team, then playing 4x4 in OT would seem like playing on an Olympic sheet and not be to our style.

Whatever it takes, short of shootouts, cut down on the ties. The 5 min OT is just a bad idea. The two teams seem to spend 5 minutes trying not to lose. Bullshit. They should finding a way to win. That's the nature of sports!!

redice

billhoward

Jim Hyla
Latest from USCHO on possible rules changes.

The NCAA wants fewer tie games but doesn't want to go to 4x4 in OT or have shootouts. So the only thing left is 10- or 20-minute OTs ... and more wear on players. If Cornell is a defense-minded team, then playing 4x4 in OT would seem like playing on an Olympic sheet and not be to our style.

Whatever it takes, short of shootouts, cut down on the ties. The 5 min OT is just a bad idea. The two teams seem to spend 5 minutes trying not to lose. Bullshit. They should finding a way to win. That's the nature of sports!!

It's all about incentives. If there is incentive to sit back and be careful that's what rational teams will do.

I'm with Rita though. I have no problem with ties. What I have a problem with is artificial rules intended to force a tiebreak. The reason shootouts are bad (IMNSHO) is that it turns a hockey game into a skills contest. 4 on 4 overtime is less bad but it turns the game into what amounts to a special teams contest.

If ties are such an issue I'd be in favor of going to 10 minute overtimes. An extra five minutes of ice time isn't going to kill anyone and then at least you're not changing the way the game is played on the ice, just playing longer.

If shootouts and 4x4 OT are good ideas ask yourself why the NHL doesn't use them in the playoffs.

Rita

billhoward

Jim Hyla
Latest from USCHO on possible rules changes.

The NCAA wants fewer tie games but doesn't want to go to 4x4 in OT or have shootouts. So the only thing left is 10- or 20-minute OTs ... and more wear on players. If Cornell is a defense-minded team, then playing 4x4 in OT would seem like playing on an Olympic sheet and not be to our style.

What is wrong with a hard fought tie in a regular season game? I'm okay with the current 5 minute (5 v 5) sudden death OT period. I'm probably one of the few people (dinosaurs?) that don't mind ties. What is so awful about ties anyway?

I'm with you, Rita. Even more so in lacrosse, where the ridiculous sudden-death resolution is simply dumb. In a sport where 20 scores is the norm and half the shots on goal go in, it's absurd to decide it on the first OT goal. Play eight or ten minutes, and most goals wins.

Al DeFlorio

Rita

billhoward

Jim Hyla
Latest from USCHO on possible rules changes.

The NCAA wants fewer tie games but doesn't want to go to 4x4 in OT or have shootouts. So the only thing left is 10- or 20-minute OTs ... and more wear on players. If Cornell is a defense-minded team, then playing 4x4 in OT would seem like playing on an Olympic sheet and not be to our style.

What is wrong with a hard fought tie in a regular season game? I'm okay with the current 5 minute (5 v 5) sudden death OT period. I'm probably one of the few people (dinosaurs?) that don't mind ties. What is so awful about ties anyway?

I'm with you, Rita. Even more so in lacrosse, where the ridiculous sudden-death resolution is simply dumb. In a sport where 20 scores is the norm and half the shots on goal go in, it's absurd to decide it on the first OT goal. Play eight or ten minutes, and most goals wins.

I love sudden death OT in lax. I see where you are coming from - and I'd think sudden death in basketball would be stupid for the same reason - but I can't get my mind to apply it to lacrosse.

ugarte

Al DeFlorio

Rita

billhoward

Jim Hyla
Latest from USCHO on possible rules changes.

The NCAA wants fewer tie games but doesn't want to go to 4x4 in OT or have shootouts. So the only thing left is 10- or 20-minute OTs ... and more wear on players. If Cornell is a defense-minded team, then playing 4x4 in OT would seem like playing on an Olympic sheet and not be to our style.

What is wrong with a hard fought tie in a regular season game? I'm okay with the current 5 minute (5 v 5) sudden death OT period. I'm probably one of the few people (dinosaurs?) that don't mind ties. What is so awful about ties anyway?

I'm with you, Rita. Even more so in lacrosse, where the ridiculous sudden-death resolution is simply dumb. In a sport where 20 scores is the norm and half the shots on goal go in, it's absurd to decide it on the first OT goal. Play eight or ten minutes, and most goals wins.

I love sudden death OT in lax. I see where you are coming from - and I'd think sudden death in basketball would be stupid for the same reason - but I can't get my mind to apply it to lacrosse.

Try thinking about it this way: since half of shots go in, and teams generate numerous shots per turnover, sudden death reduces OT lacrosse to a skills competition between face-off specialists. Bleah.

ugarte

Al DeFlorio

Rita

billhoward

Jim Hyla
Latest from USCHO on possible rules changes.

The NCAA wants fewer tie games but doesn't want to go to 4x4 in OT or have shootouts. So the only thing left is 10- or 20-minute OTs ... and more wear on players. If Cornell is a defense-minded team, then playing 4x4 in OT would seem like playing on an Olympic sheet and not be to our style.

What is wrong with a hard fought tie in a regular season game? I'm okay with the current 5 minute (5 v 5) sudden death OT period. I'm probably one of the few people (dinosaurs?) that don't mind ties. What is so awful about ties anyway?

I'm with you, Rita. Even more so in lacrosse, where the ridiculous sudden-death resolution is simply dumb. In a sport where 20 scores is the norm and half the shots on goal go in, it's absurd to decide it on the first OT goal. Play eight or ten minutes, and most goals wins.

I love sudden death OT in lax. I see where you are coming from - and I'd think sudden death in basketball would be stupid for the same reason - but I can't get my mind to apply it to lacrosse.

For many years college lacrosse OT consisted of two four-minute periods, with a change of goal in between. Cornell won the 1976 championship game by scoring the last four OT goals after Maryland scored the first. Some of us who grew up watching lacrosse played with that very sensible OT procedure "can't get our minds" around the current crap shoot.

Rita

billhoward

Jim Hyla
Latest from USCHO on possible rules changes.

The NCAA wants fewer tie games but doesn't want to go to 4x4 in OT or have shootouts. So the only thing left is 10- or 20-minute OTs ... and more wear on players. If Cornell is a defense-minded team, then playing 4x4 in OT would seem like playing on an Olympic sheet and not be to our style.

What is wrong with a hard fought tie in a regular season game? I'm okay with the current 5 minute (5 v 5) sudden death OT period. I'm probably one of the few people (dinosaurs?) that don't mind ties. What is so awful about ties anyway?

I agree. If both teams have the same amount of goals after 65 minutes, neither team deserves to win. Nor lose.

Rita

billhoward

Jim Hyla
Latest from USCHO on possible rules changes.

The NCAA wants fewer tie games but doesn't want to go to 4x4 in OT or have shootouts. So the only thing left is 10- or 20-minute OTs ... and more wear on players. If Cornell is a defense-minded team, then playing 4x4 in OT would seem like playing on an Olympic sheet and not be to our style.

What is wrong with a hard fought tie in a regular season game? I'm okay with the current 5 minute (5 v 5) sudden death OT period. I'm probably one of the few people (dinosaurs?) that don't mind ties. What is so awful about ties anyway?

Totally agree. There's an odd obsession with manufacturing results in North American (yup, I went there) sports. Teams can be evenly matched. I'd like to see the end of sudden death overtime as well, because it can reduce games to random bounces of the puck or ball.

Ben

Rita

billhoward

Jim Hyla
Latest from USCHO on possible rules changes.

The NCAA wants fewer tie games but doesn't want to go to 4x4 in OT or have shootouts. So the only thing left is 10- or 20-minute OTs ... and more wear on players. If Cornell is a defense-minded team, then playing 4x4 in OT would seem like playing on an Olympic sheet and not be to our style.

What is wrong with a hard fought tie in a regular season game? I'm okay with the current 5 minute (5 v 5) sudden death OT period. I'm probably one of the few people (dinosaurs?) that don't mind ties. What is so awful about ties anyway?

Totally agree. There's an odd obsession with manufacturing results in North American (yup, I went there) sports. Teams can be evenly matched. I'd like to see the end of sudden death overtime as well, because it can reduce games to random bounces of the puck or ball.

Honestly though, a ten minute overtime where the ice is actually fresh probably wouldnt be a bad thing.

css228

Ben

Rita

billhoward

Jim Hyla
Latest from USCHO on possible rules changes.

The NCAA wants fewer tie games but doesn't want to go to 4x4 in OT or have shootouts. So the only thing left is 10- or 20-minute OTs ... and more wear on players. If Cornell is a defense-minded team, then playing 4x4 in OT would seem like playing on an Olympic sheet and not be to our style.

What is wrong with a hard fought tie in a regular season game? I'm okay with the current 5 minute (5 v 5) sudden death OT period. I'm probably one of the few people (dinosaurs?) that don't mind ties. What is so awful about ties anyway?

Totally agree. There's an odd obsession with manufacturing results in North American (yup, I went there) sports. Teams can be evenly matched. I'd like to see the end of sudden death overtime as well, because it can reduce games to random bounces of the puck or ball.

Honestly though, a ten minute overtime where the ice is actually fresh probably wouldnt be a bad thing.

But I think the point of 10 minute overtimes is that they're the longest you can do without resurfacing first. (IIRC; it's been a while since I've seen one now that shootouts are so common.) I wouldn't mind a single 20-minute OT after resurfacing, but it would lead to any OT game taking significantly longer. Of course, now that non-televised games only last 2:10...

Al DeFlorio

ugarte

Al DeFlorio

Rita

billhoward

Jim Hyla
Latest from USCHO on possible rules changes.

The NCAA wants fewer tie games but doesn't want to go to 4x4 in OT or have shootouts. So the only thing left is 10- or 20-minute OTs ... and more wear on players. If Cornell is a defense-minded team, then playing 4x4 in OT would seem like playing on an Olympic sheet and not be to our style.

What is wrong with a hard fought tie in a regular season game? I'm okay with the current 5 minute (5 v 5) sudden death OT period. I'm probably one of the few people (dinosaurs?) that don't mind ties. What is so awful about ties anyway?

I'm with you, Rita. Even more so in lacrosse, where the ridiculous sudden-death resolution is simply dumb. In a sport where 20 scores is the norm and half the shots on goal go in, it's absurd to decide it on the first OT goal. Play eight or ten minutes, and most goals wins.

I love sudden death OT in lax. I see where you are coming from - and I'd think sudden death in basketball would be stupid for the same reason - but I can't get my mind to apply it to lacrosse.

For many years college lacrosse OT consisted of two four-minute periods, with a change of goal in between. Cornell won the 1976 championship game by scoring the last four OT goals after Maryland scored the first. Some of us who grew up watching lacrosse played with that very sensible OT procedure "can't get our minds" around the current crap shoot.

I'm not saying it isn't sensible or that I'd oppose a change. I started watching lax in the sudden death era and it just doesn't seem that bad to me. Hell, we won the faceoff in the final against Syracuse IIRC. <sorry everyone>

KeithK

redice

billhoward

Jim Hyla
Latest from USCHO on possible rules changes.

The NCAA wants fewer tie games but doesn't want to go to 4x4 in OT or have shootouts. So the only thing left is 10- or 20-minute OTs ... and more wear on players. If Cornell is a defense-minded team, then playing 4x4 in OT would seem like playing on an Olympic sheet and not be to our style.

Whatever it takes, short of shootouts, cut down on the ties. The 5 min OT is just a bad idea. The two teams seem to spend 5 minutes trying not to lose. Bullshit. They should finding a way to win. That's the nature of sports!!

It's all about incentives. If there is incentive to sit back and be careful that's what rational teams will do.

I'm with Rita though. I have no problem with ties. What I have a problem with is artificial rules intended to force a tiebreak. The reason shootouts are bad (IMNSHO) is that it turns a hockey game into a skills contest. 4 on 4 overtime is less bad but it turns the game into what amounts to a special teams contest.

If ties are such an issue I'd be in favor of going to 10 minute overtimes. An extra five minutes of ice time isn't going to kill anyone and then at least you're not changing the way the game is played on the ice, just playing longer.

If shootouts and 4x4 OT are good ideas ask yourself why the NHL doesn't use them in the playoffs.

Thanks Keith, I kind of thought you'd be with me on this and suspected Al would be too.

jtwcornell91

css228

Ben

Rita

billhoward

Jim Hyla
Latest from USCHO on possible rules changes.

The NCAA wants fewer tie games but doesn't want to go to 4x4 in OT or have shootouts. So the only thing left is 10- or 20-minute OTs ... and more wear on players. If Cornell is a defense-minded team, then playing 4x4 in OT would seem like playing on an Olympic sheet and not be to our style.

What is wrong with a hard fought tie in a regular season game? I'm okay with the current 5 minute (5 v 5) sudden death OT period. I'm probably one of the few people (dinosaurs?) that don't mind ties. What is so awful about ties anyway?

Totally agree. There's an odd obsession with manufacturing results in North American (yup, I went there) sports. Teams can be evenly matched. I'd like to see the end of sudden death overtime as well, because it can reduce games to random bounces of the puck or ball.

Honestly though, a ten minute overtime where the ice is actually fresh probably wouldnt be a bad thing.

But I think the point of 10 minute overtimes is that they're the longest you can do without resurfacing first. (IIRC; it's been a while since I've seen one now that shootouts are so common.) I wouldn't mind a single 20-minute OT after resurfacing, but it would lead to any OT game taking significantly longer. Of course, now that non-televised games only last 2:10...

But if they're so against ties, resurfacing the ice makes goals more likely.