Lowe's Senior Class Award_Vote for Keir Ross

The Cornell University press blurb:

vote here:

You may remember that Colin Greening won the award in 2010.

Also of note: unlike Hobey, fan voting actually matters as it is 1/3 of the total score. You can vote once per day at the link Rita provided and also once per day on the CLASS Facebook page.

Robb
Also of note: unlike Hobey, fan voting actually matters as it is 1/3 of the total score. You can vote once per day at the link Rita provided and also once per day on the CLASS Facebook page.

And if I remember correctly, once per day per computer. (Or per address?)

Completely unrelated, but reading his bio reminded me to ask: where can I find +/- stats for all college players? Anyone know?

Jim Hyla
Completely unrelated, but reading his bio reminded me to ask: where can I find +/- stats for all college players? Anyone know?

If it's not on collegehockeystats.net, it's unlikely to be anywhere. They don't seem to be reporting it anywhere, which is just as well since it's such a useless stat.

Jim Hyla

Robb
Also of note: unlike Hobey, fan voting actually matters as it is 1/3 of the total score. You can vote once per day at the link Rita provided and also once per day on the CLASS Facebook page.

And if I remember correctly, once per day per computer. (Or per address?)

Likely once for each IP address. So once at home, once at work and once on your smartphone when connected by cell tower rather than wifi.

Ross is on top, keep those cards and letters coming.

Ross is in second place at 21.1% to Weisgarber at 23.9%. Keep voting.

Just a reminder to keep voting. Keir is no longer in the lead.

We need to vote. Keir Ross may drop to third place if the faithful don't step it up.

dag14
We need to vote. Keir Ross may drop to third place if the faithful don't step it up.

He has dropped to third. Behind Air Force and Notre Dame, so we have our work cut out. Remember, home, work, smartphone, and anyone's computer you can find.

Jim Hyla

dag14
We need to vote. Keir Ross may drop to third place if the faithful don't step it up.

He has dropped to third. Behind Air Force and Notre Dame, so we have our work cut out. Remember, home, work, smartphone, and anyone's computer you can find.

Now a distant third. And for some reason the Facebook app thinks I've already voted today.

CowbellGuy

Jim Hyla
Completely unrelated, but reading his bio reminded me to ask: where can I find +/- stats for all college players? Anyone know?

If it's not on collegehockeystats.net, it's unlikely to be anywhere. They don't seem to be reporting it anywhere, which is just as well since it's such a useless stat.

What stats would you rate higher? Adjusted plus-minus, relative to team even-strength GF-GA? Or was that said tongue-in-cheek?

billhoward

CowbellGuy

Jim Hyla
Completely unrelated, but reading his bio reminded me to ask: where can I find +/- stats for all college players? Anyone know?

If it's not on collegehockeystats.net, it's unlikely to be anywhere. They don't seem to be reporting it anywhere, which is just as well since it's such a useless stat.

What stats would you rate higher? Adjusted plus-minus, relative to team even-strength GF-GA? Or was that said tongue-in-cheek?

+/- is already adjusted to even strength/SH only. It's just a useless stat because it's meaningless. If you're a top-2 defenseman, you're probably always out against the other team's best forwards. A 5/6 D-man might have better +/- but does that mean he's a better defenseman? If I skated as the third man with the Sedins, my +/- would probably be pretty good. Should that say anything about what I actually contributed? Useless stat.

CowbellGuy

billhoward

CowbellGuy

Jim Hyla
Completely unrelated, but reading his bio reminded me to ask: where can I find +/- stats for all college players? Anyone know?

If it's not on collegehockeystats.net, it's unlikely to be anywhere. They don't seem to be reporting it anywhere, which is just as well since it's such a useless stat.

What stats would you rate higher? Adjusted plus-minus, relative to team even-strength GF-GA? Or was that said tongue-in-cheek?

+/- is already adjusted to even strength/SH only. It's just a useless stat because it's meaningless. If you're a top-2 defenseman, you're probably always out against the other team's best forwards. A 5/6 D-man might have better +/- but does that mean he's a better defenseman? If I skated as the third man with the Sedins, my +/- would probably be pretty good. Should that say anything about what I actually contributed? Useless stat.

Otherwise known as the "J.C. Ruid effect."

Is there a stat you'd rate higher, or do you find stats not meaningful in ice hockey?

billhoward
Is there a stat you'd rate higher, or do you find stats not meaningful in ice hockey?

As opposed to field hockey, where stats tell you everything.

billhoward
Is there a stat you'd rate higher, or do you find stats not meaningful in ice hockey?

I think stats are very meaningful. Just not that one. And unfortunately due to the nature of the game, there aren't really many stats in hockey that tell you much. Goals, assists, blocked shots, hits, time-on-ice, face-off percentage are useful. Shots and scoring percentage are somewhat meaningful. And game-winning goal is another meaningless stat. +/- was just a desperate attempt to force an all-encompassing stat into the game that can't have one.

But how many goals and assists that you have is clearly a function of who is on the ice with you. Ryan Vesce scored his NHL goals when he was on a line with Joe Thornton, not when he was the fourth line center. So I am not sure why goals/assists is any better an indicator of individual value than +/-.

I know I'm in the minority on this one, but I actually do find +/- useful -- you just have to take it with a grain of salt. I mean, we all agree that scoring goals is good, and we all agree that not letting the other guys score is good, right? And I think we all intuit that there are forwards who are bad at defense, and forwards who play a two-way game. So yes, you have to make sure to do an apples-to-apples comparison -- for instance, the +/-s of comparable players (first line forwards against first line forwards, top-2 defensemen against top-2 defensemen, etc). That doesn't mean you throw the whole stat away, though.

I agree about the GWG, though. The only times I've ever thought it was a halfway meaningful stat was when I was the one who scored it.

I'm not a big stats person, but these guys have been getting a fair amount of publicity lately:
[www.sportsanalyticsinstitute.com]

Roy 82
But how many goals and assists that you have is clearly a function of who is on the ice with you. Ryan Vesce scored his NHL goals when he was on a line with Joe Thornton, not when he was the fourth line center. So I am not sure why goals/assists is any better an indicator of individual value than +/-.

Sure, it's a function of who you're on the ice with, but if you're picking up points, you're at least touching the puck and in on the play. I could, however, be sitting inside my net picking my nose and and still collect plusses while the rest of my team does all the work.

CowbellGuy

Roy 82
But how many goals and assists that you have is clearly a function of who is on the ice with you. Ryan Vesce scored his NHL goals when he was on a line with Joe Thornton, not when he was the fourth line center. So I am not sure why goals/assists is any better an indicator of individual value than +/-.

Sure, it's a function of who you're on the ice with, but if you're picking up points, you're at least touching the puck and in on the play. I could, however, be sitting inside my net picking my nose and and still collect plusses while the rest of my team does all the work.

Come on, that's a bit of a straw man. Chances are pretty good that if you did that, your team would be a lot less effective than if you were making plays -- and everyone, including you, would suffer on the +/-. I don't think anyone is arguing that your teammates don't affect your +/-, but if you're looking for a hockey stat that measures an individual's abilities divorced of his teammates', you won't find it anywhere other than the All Star's skills competition.

ftyuv

CowbellGuy

Roy 82
But how many goals and assists that you have is clearly a function of who is on the ice with you. Ryan Vesce scored his NHL goals when he was on a line with Joe Thornton, not when he was the fourth line center. So I am not sure why goals/assists is any better an indicator of individual value than +/-.

Sure, it's a function of who you're on the ice with, but if you're picking up points, you're at least touching the puck and in on the play. I could, however, be sitting inside my net picking my nose and and still collect plusses while the rest of my team does all the work.

Come on, that's a bit of a straw man. Chances are pretty good that if you did that, your team would be a lot less effective than if you were making plays -- and everyone, including you, would suffer on the +/-. I don't think anyone is arguing that your teammates don't affect your +/-, but if you're looking for a hockey stat that measures an individual's abilities divorced of his teammates', you won't find it anywhere other than the All Star's skills competition.

I'm not looking for stats that are completely divorced from your teammates, but I'm also not looking for a stat from which the player in question can be completely divorced.

CowbellGuy

ftyuv

CowbellGuy

Roy 82
But how many goals and assists that you have is clearly a function of who is on the ice with you. Ryan Vesce scored his NHL goals when he was on a line with Joe Thornton, not when he was the fourth line center. So I am not sure why goals/assists is any better an indicator of individual value than +/-.

Sure, it's a function of who you're on the ice with, but if you're picking up points, you're at least touching the puck and in on the play. I could, however, be sitting inside my net picking my nose and and still collect plusses while the rest of my team does all the work.

Come on, that's a bit of a straw man. Chances are pretty good that if you did that, your team would be a lot less effective than if you were making plays -- and everyone, including you, would suffer on the +/-. I don't think anyone is arguing that your teammates don't affect your +/-, but if you're looking for a hockey stat that measures an individual's abilities divorced of his teammates', you won't find it anywhere other than the All Star's skills competition.

I'm not looking for stats that are completely divorced from your teammates, but I'm also not looking for a stat from which the player in question can be completely divorced.

I guess I'm saying that if your argument that +/- is such a stat is backed only by your nose-picking net-sitter example, I'm not convinced.

He's now 4^th, so vote.

I can no longer vote for Keir using the Dolphin Mini (browser) on my Android phone. (The reason that Dophin mini is my browser of choice has to do with reading forums such as this message board. Unless ELynah supports tapatalk at some point I am wed to Dolphin Mini.)

I can vote using the stock browser and would like all reading here to vote with their phones on a daily basis.