Riley Nash

What are the odds that Riley Nash wakes up one day and rightly realizes that as a development ground for the NHL Cornell is about the last place on earth that he should be as a first round draft pick?

My guess is about 85%. I would think he is only using cornell as a bargaining chip with his WHL team, holding out and demanding a trade to a different team and a large contract at which time he will end his Cornell career before it even starts.

DILLIGAF
What are the odds that Riley Nash wakes up one day and rightly realizes that as a development ground for the NHL Cornell is about the last place on earth that he should be as a first round draft pick?

My guess is about 85%. I would think he is only using cornell as a bargaining chip with his WHL team, holding out and demanding a trade to a different team and a large contract at which time he will end his Cornell career before it even starts.

What are the odds that you wake up one day and realize that you're annoying, and go away?

where's john hayes when you need him?

DILLIGAF
What are the odds that Riley Nash wakes up one day and rightly realizes that as a development ground for the NHL Cornell is about the last place on earth that he should be as a first round draft pick?

My guess is about 85%. I would think he is only using cornell as a bargaining chip with his WHL team, holding out and demanding a trade to a different team and a large contract at which time he will end his Cornell career before it even starts.

Dammit, RichS, give it up, we know it's you.

DILLIGAF
groundless speculation flatulence self-aggrandizing piles of crap masturbatory ramblings

Is it freakin' October yet?!

Why don't we just not respond? Imagine, he starts a thread and no one takes the bait.

When he learns about the from the eLynah folks who are "in the know" about the rape coverup scandal.

Does anyone else miss Facetimer at times like this?

I will readily admit that I was stirring up some shit with my question, but as a fan of Cornell Hockey you cannot tell me that there is some serious breath holding at the prospect of whether he is showing up or not.

His draft status changed dramatically. A first round pick has a lot of value to a WHL team. It wouldn't be a shock if Swift Current came up with a lot of money for him or a trade was made to a team he would rather play for and he signed a WHL contract. Edmonton would much rather have him in the WHL. That is fact.

Further, he was coming here to play with his brother. His brother suffered a very severe knee injury after the season. (Think Duante Cullpepper) If his brother is unable to play is coming to Cornell as special for him? This is a legitame question.

If I were Mike, I would be sending a private jet and a limo to make sure he doesn't get lost along the way. It is still early. A lot can happen between now and the time is to report to Ithaca.
The WHL teams have a lot of money to influence the equation.

Like it or not, it is a legitamate question.

Seems to me, then, that what you meant to say in your original posting was something like:

I hope Brendon Nash's post-season injury doesn't jeopardize his ability to play next season and perhaps cause his brother Riley to rethink his decision to attend Cornell.

Are you using your postings here as a portfolio to land a writer's position with a supermarket tabloid?

As to Brendon, I do hope that his knee injury was not nearly as severe as I have heard. I by no means wish any ill on him. I was disappointed that he didn't get drafted. I thought that in the games I watched he was sometimes the best D for Cornell. I think he has a lot of pro potential. I believe that he along with Greening should have been named captains and the whole lot of last years captains should have been scrapped, ESPECIALLY TOPHER.

Please don't take my post to read that I am anti-Brendon Nash, I think he was one of the bright spots on a very lackluster team last year.

I do hope that his knee has healed and it won't affect his ability to play. However, if it is as bad as it sounds, it could be a whole season without him and it could jeopardize his whole career. I truly hope that is not the case.

DILLIGAF
However, if it is as bad as it sounds, it could be a whole season without him and it could jeopardize his whole career. I truly hope that is not the case.

Good thing he went to Cornell, his future looks pretty good with or without hockey.

DILLIGAF
I thought that in the games I watched he was sometimes the best D for Cornell.

As someone who watched a lot of games last year, no.

Brandon showed potential, and I certainly wish him a quick recovery, if he's hurt (I didn't hear of that). But for most of the season, almost every other defender was better.

DILLIGAF
Further, he was coming here to play with his brother. His brother suffered a very severe knee injury after the season. (Think Duante Cullpepper) If his brother is unable to play is coming to Cornell as special for him? This is a legitame question.

OK, I'll assume that this is legitame, whatever that means. If Brendon has a season-threatening injury, does that mean he ceases to exist in Ithaca? He'll still be at Cornell, taking classes, rehabbing, training, and, one assumes, still being around his teammates and helping out anyway he can. If family was a consideration in his decision, then one can assume that there's a decent bond between the two. Brendon will be there to help him train/practice, and help him adapt to college life in Ithaca. It's a long way from B.C. for an 18-year-old, and having a big bro there to be around socially is still a big factor, ice-time or no.

BTW...how often do incoming freshmen bail before the school year even starts? I think it's an extremely rare occurance, even with highly-touted players. If anything, the ones that leave do so in the middle or end of their first season after realizing that the college path just isn't for them, or unhappiness with playing time. Like Chris Bourque (BU), Matt Smith (CCT), or *gulp* Troy Davenport (the first time around).

You mean like Josh Unice or Pat Maroon this year or Trevor Lewis last year and Peter Mueller a couple of years ago to name a few...you could even add Matt Duchene to that list after he rescinded his committment to Michigan State and went to Brampton in the OHL this summer.

The change in his draft status from a mid 3rd round projection to a first round pick changes a lot of things. If he has a "family advisor" who is telling him to go to Cornell, he should seek other advise because the advice he is getting is bad advice. Maybe he should call Tony Ramono...That might not be the recommendation that would reflect well on Mike S.

Are you saying that this happens one or two times per year (i.e. the names you cited) or is it much more common than that (say half a dozen to a dozen players around the NCAA every year)?

Also, since I don't follow pre-college hockey at all, were the guys you mentioned early round picks?

Not to trying to argue with you. I'm just trying to get an answer to Rich's question that's more detailed than a couple of names.

These players were top prospects and the ones that came to mind. I don't believe that it is as high a number as a dozen a year. But it is a real consideration for the very top prospects. The CHL doesn't have the same limitations on recruiting visits, contacts, etc. They can be very aggressive in trying to get the top players. It does happen every year. I would think you would find it to be on average of 5-8 players a year. Not a huge number for college hockey as a whole, but it becomes much more statisticly significant when you factor in the number of teams that actually have 1st round freshmen draft picks to which this pertain. That subset is much smaller.

I love this good-cop-bad-cop thing D'gaf pulls. Or rather, intelligent-post-retarded-trolling. Keeps me on my toes!

DILLIGAF
Maybe he should call Tony Ramono...

I didn't think we would ever need to add Romano to the spelling guide....especially on a post that's already been edited.

ftyuv
I love this good-cop-bad-cop thing D'gaf pulls. Or rather, intelligent-post-retarded-trolling. Keeps me on my toes!

Classic trolling technique. Throwing in an intelligent post every once in a while convinces some people you mean well -- you might even get a few poor suckers to defend you. That gives you cover for the next asinine flame.

It isn't limited to board posters. Political pundits do it all the time. There's probably a word for it.

DILLIGAF
If he has a "family advisor" who is telling him to go to Cornell, he should seek other advise because the advice he is getting is bad advice. Maybe he should call Tony Ramono...That might not be the recommendation that would reflect well on Mike S.

The same Tony Romano who decided that the best way to get to the NHL was to ignore his defensive problems and go play for the highest scoring team in the CHL? Sounds like a guy who knows how to further his career.

What you continue to ignore is that Riley's game, or atleast his reported game, fits this team. If I was a hard nosed two way forward I'd want to come to Cornell, there are few programs who promote that type of game as well as Schafer has. But wait, you have an axe to grind with mike, so clearly none of what I said made sense.

You mean few programs like:
Minnesota
North Dakota
Wisconsin
Michigan
Notre Dame
Maine
BU
BC
Denver
Michigan State

First round draft picks no matter what their game do not go to the ECAC and especially Cornell to become NHL players. I know, I know, Joe N did it back in 85. Yes he did, even though he was the 27th pick overall he went to Cornell and it worked out fine for him.

It has not been a model that has really caught on since he did it though.

why does it matter where he was picked? Did Riley some how become a differant hockey player the day after the draft? He's going to develop differantly because he was picked high?

The only reason his draft position would affect his decision to go to Cornell was if the oilers intervened, and so far they have shown no inclination to do so. Other than that, the fact that he was picked high shouldn't make any differance.

DILLIGAF
You mean few programs like:
Minnesota

I think you lost all credibility claiming that Minnesota is a good fit for a hard nosed two way forward.

DILLIGAF
First round draft picks no matter what their game do not go to the ECAC and especially Cornell to become NHL players.

Chris Higgins for a good example. Hugh Jessiman for a poor example. And there have been a good number of 2nd round picks in the ECAC.

Drafted players generally don't go to the ECAC to become NHL players. They go there for the other things that ECAC schools have to offer over your state-sports factories or junior leagues. Just because a player doesn't happen to be drafted high, doesn't mean that the hockey programs in the ECAC can't develop him into NHL talent. Do I even have to post this list?

[www.ecachockey.com]

But you laid down a crafty sentence. You're right. Not a whole lot of kids with first-round talent do go to ECAC schools. Nobody can argue that. Heck, if you limit it to 1st rounders, only 8-10 kids out of 30 are headed to college at all. And what do the schools that can land such talent have that (in general) ECAC schools do not? 1) scholarships 2) a state name (or Boston). The scholarships that Colgate, Clarkson, SLU, RPI, QU have don't have as much draw power that the scholarships from Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota, North Dakota, etc. have.

Let's look at the recent 1st rounds:

2007: 11 of 30
HEA: 3 (BC, BU, UNH)
ECAC: 1 (Cornell)
CCHA: 2 (Mich, NDame)
WCHA: 5 (Wisc. 3, Minn 2)

2006: 8 of 30
HEA: 0
ECAC: 0
CCHA: 3 (Mich 3)
WCHA: 5 (Minn 4, NoDak 1)

2005: 8 of 30
HEA: 0
ECAC: 1 (Cornell)
CCHA: 2 (Mich 2)
WCHA: 5 (NoDak 3, Wisc, UMD)

2004: 7 of 30
HEA: 1 (BC)
ECAC: 0
CCHA: 2 (Mich, MSU)
WCHA: 4 (Minn. 2, NoDak 2)

2003: 9 of 30
HEA: 2 (BC 2)
ECAC: 1 (Dart)
CCHA: 2 (Mich, OSU)
WCHA: 4 (Minn, NoDak, Wisc, CC)

2002: 6 of 30
HEA: 2 (BU, NE)
ECAC: 1 (Yale)
CCHA: 2 (Mich, MSU)
WCHA: 1 (Minn)

2001: 4 of 30
HEA: 1 (BC)
ECAC: 0
CCHA: 3 (Mich, OSU 2)
WCHA: 0

--------------
Totals: 53 of 210 (25.2%)
HEA: 9 (17%)
ECAC: 4 (7.5%)
CCHA: 16 (30%)
WCHA: 24 (45.5%)

By School:
Minn: 10
Mich: 10
NoDaK: 7
Wisc: 5
BC: 5
OSU: 3
BU: 2
Cornell: 2
MSU: 2
NE: 1
UNH: 1
Dart: 1
Yale: 1
NDame: 1
CC: 1
UMD: 1

Only 1/4 of all 1st rounders go to college. Of the small number that do, the hockey scholarship powerhouses get the bulk of them. And I'm not even going to try to do the research to find out how many of those bolt for the pros after 1-2 years.

It's obvious that certain schools simply have a recruiting advantage over others, and that's not an earth-shattering discovery. To say that first-round talent doesn't go to the ECAC, "especially Cornell" makes the speaker look retarded.

That's probably why you're getting a lot of flak.

His draft position matters. Edmonton used a 1st round pick on him - now for what it is worth, most people I have talked to say that Edmonton will be disappointed with this pick....that Nash should have gone in the 2nd or 3rd round - we won't know this for several years.

But regardless, he went in the first round. The issue with going to Cornell is the number of games, the weak schedule, etc. The Edmonton organization (based in Canada, so not exactly a bastion of college hockey) does not want to look bad if their First Round pick does not develop as they think he should, especially if he doesn't develop by going a non-traditional route - playing at Cornell.

Look at JD Drew and the Red Sox. Theo continues to play Drew despite his horrendous play. Why? Because he wasted $70MM on him and would be ridiculed to no end were he to pay a guy $14MM a year to sit on the bench.

If Nash is considering not coming, he'll have to make up his mind damn soon. Freshman orientation begins a week from today.

rstott
If Nash is considering not coming, he'll have to make up his mind damn soon. Freshman orientation begins a week from today.

More importantly, when are tuition checks due?

bothman
His draft position matters. Edmonton used a 1st round pick on him - now for what it is worth, most people I have talked to say that Edmonton will be disappointed with this pick....that Nash should have gone in the 2nd or 3rd round - we won't know this for several years.

But regardless, he went in the first round. The issue with going to Cornell is the number of games, the weak schedule, etc. The Edmonton organization (based in Canada, so not exactly a bastion of college hockey) does not want to look bad if their First Round pick does not develop as they think he should, especially if he doesn't develop by going a non-traditional route - playing at Cornell.

As someone-or-other pointed out in this excellently-researched post, the Oilers don't generally pull their drafted players out of college too early. That holds true for both players at big-name schools like Michigan and UND, and at niche hockey schools like NMU and Denver. Lowe is smart enough to look past the lack of the name recognition of a school like Michigan and evaluate Cornell on its actual merits.

Listen, I'm not saying that Edmonton will do anything. All I am saying is that any incoming player who is a first round pick has significantly more risk with regards to actually matriculating, particularly at an ECAC school where there are less games played, worse competition, and much more of a school first, hockey second philosophy than our bretherin out West.

bothman
The issue with going to Cornell is the number of games, the weak schedule, etc.

Seriously. We have to play Harvard twice a year!

Look at JD Drew and the Red Sox. Theo continues to play Drew despite his horrendous play. Why? Because he wasted $70MM on him and would be ridiculed to no end were he to pay a guy $14MM a year to sit on the bench.

Right. It's a good thing they are playing Drew; now Theo isn't taking any shit about that signing. That tactic sure fooled everyone.

Yankees suck.

ugarte

bothman
Look at JD Drew and the Red Sox. Theo continues to play Drew despite his horrendous play. Why? Because he wasted $70MM on him and would be ridiculed to no end were he to pay a guy $14MM a year to sit on the bench.

Right. It's a good thing they are playing Drew; now Theo isn't taking any shit about that signing. That tactic sure fooled everyone.

This is why I abandoned the Bills; they kept starting Johnson instead of Flutie, even though his performance was far worse in every measurable way, because they were paying him far more. Look, you're spending the money on him whether he's playing or not, so as long as you're out the cash regardless, you might as well be trying to win games by playing your best players.

Beeeej
This is why I abandoned the Bills; they kept starting Johnson instead of Flutie, even though his performance was far worse in every measurable way, because they were paying him far more. Look, you're spending the money on him whether he's playing or not, so as long as you're out the cash regardless, you might as well be trying to win games by playing your best players.

The alternatives for the Sox are...um...underwhelming. Wily Mo Pena? Eric Hinske? [Or is that Nastassja Kinski?] No Fluties there.

Al DeFlorio

Beeeej
This is why I abandoned the Bills; they kept starting Johnson instead of Flutie, even though his performance was far worse in every measurable way, because they were paying him far more. Look, you're spending the money on him whether he's playing or not, so as long as you're out the cash regardless, you might as well be trying to win games by playing your best players.

The alternatives for the Sox are...um...underwhelming. Wily Mo Pena? Eric Hinske? [Or is that Nastassja Kinski?] No Fluties there.

Come on, Wily Mo is great!

Umm, the object of the game is to swing and miss, right?

Josh '99

Al DeFlorio

Beeeej
This is why I abandoned the Bills; they kept starting Johnson instead of Flutie, even though his performance was far worse in every measurable way, because they were paying him far more. Look, you're spending the money on him whether he's playing or not, so as long as you're out the cash regardless, you might as well be trying to win games by playing your best players.

The alternatives for the Sox are...um...underwhelming. Wily Mo Pena? Eric Hinske? [Or is that Nastassja Kinski?] No Fluties there.

Come on, Wily Mo is great!

Umm, the object of the game is to swing and miss, right?

For the Red Sox at least. I fully approve of Willy Mo's flailing.

I'm about 90% sure I saw Riley Nash in the Ithaca area today.

Looks like he's playing this year.

He is definitely playing this year

ebilmes
I'm about 90% sure I saw Riley Nash in the Ithaca area today.

Looks like he's playing this year.

Show's what you know. He's obviously going to show up for the Red/White scrimage, see what a classless, unprofessional rapist the coach is, realize that Cornell is the last place on earth anyone would want to play and instantly hop a private jet to wisk him away to the OHL.

Wait...how'd I get in DILLIGAF's world?

RichH

ebilmes
I'm about 90% sure I saw Riley Nash in the Ithaca area today.

Looks like he's playing this year.

Show's what you know. He's obviously going to show up for the Red/White scrimage, see what a classless, unprofessional rapist the coach is, realize that Cornell is the last place on earth anyone would want to play and instantly hop a private jet to wisk him away to the OHL.

Wait...how'd I get in DILLIGAF's world?

You'd think a university like Cornell could afford to hire a professional rapist.

ftyuv

RichH

ebilmes
I'm about 90% sure I saw Riley Nash in the Ithaca area today.

Looks like he's playing this year.

Show's what you know. He's obviously going to show up for the Red/White scrimage, see what a classless, unprofessional rapist the coach is, realize that Cornell is the last place on earth anyone would want to play and instantly hop a private jet to wisk him away to the OHL.

Wait...how'd I get in DILLIGAF's world?

You'd think a university like Cornell could afford to hire a professional rapist.

"I would found an institution where any person can find instruction in any study."

ftyuv

RichH

ebilmes
I'm about 90% sure I saw Riley Nash in the Ithaca area today.

Looks like he's playing this year.

Show's what you know. He's obviously going to show up for the Red/White scrimage, see what a classless, unprofessional rapist the coach is, realize that Cornell is the last place on earth anyone would want to play and instantly hop a private jet to wisk him away to the OHL.

Wait...how'd I get in DILLIGAF's world?

You'd think a university like Cornell could afford to hire a professional rapist.

I think it goes against the amateurism principles of college athletics.


Shit, did I just imply that rape is a sport?

Josh '99

ftyuv

RichH

ebilmes
I'm about 90% sure I saw Riley Nash in the Ithaca area today.

Looks like he's playing this year.

Show's what you know. He's obviously going to show up for the Red/White scrimage, see what a classless, unprofessional rapist the coach is, realize that Cornell is the last place on earth anyone would want to play and instantly hop a private jet to wisk him away to the OHL.

Wait...how'd I get in DILLIGAF's world?

You'd think a university like Cornell could afford to hire a professional rapist.

I think it goes against the amateurism principles of college athletics.


Shit, did I just imply that rape is a sport?

Well, ugarte implied that it's an academic discipline. Not sure which is more offensive.

Section A Banshee

Josh '99

ftyuv

RichH

ebilmes
I'm about 90% sure I saw Riley Nash in the Ithaca area today.

Looks like he's playing this year.

Show's what you know. He's obviously going to show up for the Red/White scrimage, see what a classless, unprofessional rapist the coach is, realize that Cornell is the last place on earth anyone would want to play and instantly hop a private jet to wisk him away to the OHL.

Wait...how'd I get in DILLIGAF's world?

You'd think a university like Cornell could afford to hire a professional rapist.

I think it goes against the amateurism principles of college athletics.


Shit, did I just imply that rape is a sport?

Well, ugarte implied that it's an academic discipline. Not sure which is more offensive.

Well then, you explain jello shot parties. I rest my case (about being the most offensive.)

Section A Banshee

Josh '99

ftyuv

RichH

ebilmes
I'm about 90% sure I saw Riley Nash in the Ithaca area today.

Looks like he's playing this year.

Show's what you know. He's obviously going to show up for the Red/White scrimage, see what a classless, unprofessional rapist the coach is, realize that Cornell is the last place on earth anyone would want to play and instantly hop a private jet to wisk him away to the OHL.

Wait...how'd I get in DILLIGAF's world?

You'd think a university like Cornell could afford to hire a professional rapist.

I think it goes against the amateurism principles of college athletics.


Shit, did I just imply that rape is a sport?

Well, ugarte implied that it's an academic discipline. Not sure which is more offensive.

Cornell: Where the coach is therapist.

Man, we really need the season to start soon.

That's "therapists," Mr. Connery, not "the rapists."