Sioux sue?

[Chris '03]

In case you missed it:

NCAA Postpones Discussion of Literacy Rule to Spend More Time Objecting to Feathers: Often the NCAA looks the other way as big schools make only token attempts to educate D-I football and men's basketball scholarship athletes. But put a feather in your cap and you're asking for trouble! Recently the NCAA ruled that the feathers on the William & Mary athletic logo must be removed because they are offensive. We're not talking about disparaging caricatures of American Indians, which are indeed offensive; the William & Mary logo contains only images of feathers. Has the NCAA actually found one single person anywhere on Earth who claims to be offended by a drawing of feathers? Maybe birds were offended! Then again, the NCAA has a reason to want to get even with William & Mary: This academics-oriented college plays in Division I and graduates its athletes, thus creating uncomfortable comparisons for the NCAA's money-factory schools. In the most recent NCAA stats, William & Mary graduated 98 percent of its Division I-AA football players and 92 percent of its Division I men's basketball players. Hey sports studs, want to attend a major university without going to class? Chances are you will get away with it. But should you draw a feather, the wrath of Khan will descend upon you.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=easterbrook/061010&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab2pos1

[KeithK]

[quote Ben Rocky 04]Don't those alumni have something better to spend their money on?  New buildings?  More faculty?  Scholarships for needy students?[/quote]Don't you have something better to do with your time than posting on a forum dedicated to kids with knives strapped to their feet? Shuoldn't you be out helping disadvantaged children or working in the inner cities or something?  Shouldn't I?

People spend time and money on things they care about.  The includes sports.  The logos and traditions are part of what people care about.  Nothing unusual about that.  The fact that you happen to disagree with them on this issue doesn't make it any more or less reasonable to care.

[Ben Rocky '04]

Yes, it's their right, but I see this as a sign of college sports becoming more important than the college education itself [and on a side note, this trend is already gone too far with regard to high school sports, too].  The note from ESPN that Chris '03 posted is current and accurate on this trend, and I fear the Ivy schools and our compatriots who view college sports as something that armatures play to add to their education is a notion that is fading away faster and faster in our society.  

College pride is all well and good, I've got more than most (I'm quite batshit crazy for Cornell).  Interest in college sports teams is also well and good (I've spent 5 minutes on the phone today trying to find a bar to watch CU/Sucks game on Nov 11 here in Cochise County, Arizona) but I see this as going to far.  Move on guys, its time to fund a new dorm or endow a faculty position or something.

[by armatures, i meant amateurs. the typo will remain in honor of Krose's wonderful futurama reference]

[Rosey]

[quote Ben Rocky 04]as something that armatures play[/quote]
You mean like the Robot League Blernsball?

Kyle

[Ben Rocky '04]

I was a fan of the Swedish Meatballs, but only before steroid injection became mandatory.  Damn my typos!

[ugarte]

Round 1, Englestadt.

[scoop85]

While I'm against the whole idea of Indian mascots, the NCAA's selective enforcement is a joke.  Seeing Florida State's "Indian" in full warpaint come onto the field the other night before the Wafe Forest game and plant the flaming spear -- all of which was deemed exempt from the policy by the NCAA -- shows again that the big athletic powers get their way, while a small school like UND gets the shaft.

[ajec1]

[quote scoop85]While I'm against the whole idea of Indian mascots, the NCAA's selective enforcement is a joke.  Seeing Florida State's "Indian" in full warpaint come onto the field the other night before the Wafe Forest game and plant the flaming spear -- all of which was deemed exempt from the policy by the NCAA -- shows again that the big athletic powers get their way, while a small school like UND gets the shaft.[/quote]

Well, they were deemed "exempt" when all the remaining recognized Seminole tribes signed off on them keeping their nickname. One of the recognized Sioux tribes did not sign off on such a proclamation, thus the NCAA ruling. It is interesting because in Engelstad's gift for the arena there was a stipulation that they not change the nickname, lest they pay back the gift (what do you expect from a nazi sympathizer). Of course, that stupid tomahawk chop still has to be the most rednecked, offensive thing I have ever seen.

[billhoward]

[quote ajec1][quote scoop85]While I'm against the whole idea of Indian mascots, the NCAA's selective enforcement is a joke.  Seeing Florida State's "Indian" in full warpaint come onto the field the other night before the Wafe Forest game and plant the flaming spear -- all of which was deemed exempt from the policy by the NCAA -- shows again that the big athletic powers get their way, while a small school like UND gets the shaft.[/quote]

Well, they were deemed "exempt" when all the remaining recognized Seminole tribes signed off on them keeping their nickname. One of the recognized Sioux tribes did not sign off on such a proclamation, thus the NCAA ruling. It is interesting because in Engelstad's gift for the arena there was a stipulation that they not change the nickname, lest they pay back the gift (what do you expect from a nazi sympathizer). Of course, that stupid tomahawk chop still has to be the most rednecked, offensive thing I have ever seen.[/quote]

Rutgers has a chop cheer for its resurrected football team. The coach says the chop is as in chopping wood, the metaphor for their efforts and season, he says. Since Rutgers doesn't have an Indian-prior-name issue, the chop shouldn't raise eyebrows. (Aside: From here on out, Rutgers needs to win the rest of its games but not do well enough to actually make the BCS title game, in which they would get scalped. Better to be seeded sixth, play in BCS Kohler Bowl, win it 35-28, and let the alums argue for decades about how, if they'd only had the chance to play Ohio State ... )

[KeithK]

[quote ajec1]Well, they were deemed "exempt" when all the remaining recognized Seminole tribes signed off on them keeping their nickname. One of the recognized Sioux tribes did not sign off on such a proclamation, thus the NCAA ruling. It is interesting because in Engelstad's gift for the arena there was a stipulation that they not change the nickname, lest they pay back the gift (what do you expect from a nazi sympathizer). Of course, that stupid tomahawk chop still has to be the most rednecked, offensive thing I have ever seen.[/quote]Whatever else one can say about Engelstadt, I'm glad he put the restrictions on his arena gift. If that's what's required to make a school stand up against silly NCAA policies then I'm all for it.

This thing won't be settled for at least two more rounds since I assume there's a good chance that whoever loses in April will appeal. One thing we can be sure of is that the Sioux skaters will get to wear their logo in the tournament this year if they make it.

[Robb]

[quote ajec1]It is interesting because in Engelstad's gift for the arena there was a stipulation that they not change the nickname, lest they pay back the gift (what do you expect from a nazi sympathizer). [/quote]
My (limited) understanding was that the original gift contained no stipulation about the nickname.  Then during the construction of the arena there was an on-campus protest about the name, and Englestadt at that point sent a letter to UND saying that he would retract the funding if the name was changed.  The protest never led to anything, so the issue was never resolved and the arena was completed as planned, which is where we are today.

And the Seminoles okaying the nickname is the biggest joke of all.  FSU pays the tribes big $$$ out of their ample merchandise revenues, so of course the tribes voted for it.  It still comes down to the fact that the big (rich) athletic departments can get around it and the smaller ones can't - completely unfair.

[schoaff]

[quote Robb]And the Seminoles okaying the nickname is the biggest joke of all.  FSU pays the tribes big $$$ out of their ample merchandise revenues, so of course the tribes voted for it.  It still comes down to the fact that the big (rich) athletic departments can get around it and the smaller ones can't - completely unfair.[/quote]

Add the fact that the Florida legislature was ready to fund any legal action they could think of to fight the NCAA on this. They would have put up the best legal battle money can buy (and I don't mean anything snide by that). The NCAA may have won, but it would have been a pyrrhic victory.

[Chris '03]

For those interested, or incredible bored, as noted here the filings in the case are at: http://www.ag.state.nd.us/NCAA/ncaa.htm

[RichH]

This hasn't hit the front pages of USCHO, CHN, or INCH yet, but the update is that UND can keep the name for now and has three years to campaign for tribal support.  

I find the opposite slant of each headline interesting:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/2007-10-25-north-dakota-nickname_N.htm

http://www.grandforksherald.com/articles/index.cfm?id=55050§ion=homepage&freebie_check&CFID=61791846&CFTOKEN=62205421&jsessionid=8830d596400567737652

[Lauren '06]

FYI, the Grand Forks Herald requires registration.

Ron His Horse Is Thunder, chairman of the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe

Man, I wish that guy played goalie.  Give me a space!