copyrights

[Erica]

When I was in marching band, we used to get shirts every year, with all the schools' names on the back, and sometimes the front, depending on the design. Usually, these names were referred to in a disparaging way, or at least the spellings. How did they manage to get permission to do that? Did they have some sort of agreement with the Athletic Dept. that they could make T-shirts every year?

[Josh '99]

I doubt it.  We never really got permission for anything we did, did we?

[A-19]

Dear all,

As expected, Harvard has rejected my design for being disparaging. The person I spoke to wanted me to do something that celebrated the traditions of both schools. I have reworked the design in order to claim fair use of parody, in two versions:

Gimme an A+!
Gimme another A+!
Welcome to HA+RVA+RD. (the plusses are superscripted)

and

Gimme an A!
Gimme another A!
Welcome to Hahvahd.

Additionally, I have taken Cornell's name off the shirts, as they refuse to endorse a disparaging comment to Harvard on a t-shirt but will allow 3,000 fans to make disparaging comments out loud. The front of the shirt now reads: "Lynah East hockey"

I should know if the parody use is legal soon. If I get the go-ahead, no shirt advertising is allowed on this site, according to Cornell UR. Age has graciously volunteered use of his off-campus webspace to post the final information, and I will send a link. Thank you to everyone, and we'll find out soon.

-Mike

[Lowell '99]

Dear Erica and Josh,

Shut up, will ya?  :-)

-Lowell

P.S.  Mike, I have a feeling that there is zero chance of anything being approved that would be something worth the trouble of making.  While your efforts on the project are appreciated, perhaps you could find another way to go creating some form of commemoration.

[Ben Doyle 03]

. . .how about we buy a bunch of long sleeved red tee-shirts(in bulk to lower the cost) and people will pay for their own. Then everyone go to K-Mart (or where ever) and get those iron-on letters and make our own shirts. still don't know if  that's allowed but i can't imagine wanting to deal with the paperwork from all the different designs. Since they would all be slightly different they can't just "pin it" on one person.

just a thought :-))

[Jim Hyla]

Go for it! It was a great idea in the beginning and still is. From your post I gather you are looking for a legal OK and not a University OK. I hope you get it. We should all support an initiative, it only helps to continue the tradition. Sign me up (again), probably for more than one.

[A-19]

Thanks Jim, and everyone. You're correct- I am looking for a legal answer, not a permission to use copyrights. Harvard has promised me an answer on Tuesday.

-Mike

[Alessandra]

 ::nut::

just thought i'd say hi!!! love you babe and print cooler, better shirts.

[A-19]

Dear everyone,

Here is the update. I sent the 2 designs, HA+RVA+RD and Hahvahd to Harvard's trademark department. I was not seeking approval to use them, but merely asking if I was in violation of US law by using the two ideas as parody.

I was told that the department did not like the use of jokes against Harvard grading policy, and that they did not think my designs were actually parodies. They asked that I send a "nice" design for approval.

I responded by stating that I could not find Hahvahd registered under the US Patent Trademark Office. Additionally, I drew a distinction between my proposed shirt and a shirt that would say "Hahvahd sucks"-- my shirt only alludes to an objective fact acknowledged by the university and the Boston Globe-- 51% of grades were A's, 91% graduated with honors.

I received the following from Harvard this morning: "In regards to your first question, adding +'s to a trademark does not necessarily make it fair use.  It's still HARVARD and we still have say of who may or may not use it as a trademark.  In regards to checking with the U.S. PTO to see if something is registered, you site the mark HAHVAHD, U.S. trademark law permits for the University to control any confusingly similar marks to our registered mark HARVARD.  As far as whether or not your designs constitute parody, you will need to speak to your own counsel for that answer.  I am not an attorney and cannot advise you on this matter.  All I can say is that if you come to us for permission for a design using any of the University's trademarks, we will either accept the design or deny it depending on numerous factors.  In the case of the designs you have submitted to us, these have been denied."

I feel like I am running in circles here. The only thing I wanted was a straight answer whether my two designs were parody or not, being that I will NEVER get approval for any design unless I call Harvard the greatest school on the earth.

I need suggestions. If we are making shirts for the coming game, I need to call the t-shirt guy back tonight or tomorrow morning. I could just change it to "Welcome to Cambridge" which is perfectly legal, but I feel like I totally wasted my time. Is there still an interest? If someone else wants to get these made up, go right ahead. I don't know what to do anymore. Comments are greatly appreciated.

-Mike

[cbuckser]

A large drawback of our common-law legal tradition is that it leaves a lot of gray areas for which there is no clear answer.  You can argue that HA+RVA+RD is a fair-use parody and you'll be able to site some legal precedents in your favor.  Harvard will argue that printing HA+RVA+RD violates its trademark and will cite precedents in its favor.  Only litigation or an out-of-court settlement will provide the clear answer you are looking for:  whether your t-shirt design infringes Harvard's trademark.

Intellectual property law is not my area of expertise, and I have no idea whether you or Harvard has the stronger argument.  An intellectual property lawyer should be able to provide you with a sense if whether you are likely to prevail.  But, the HA+RVA+RD design may not be an open-and-shut case of fair use or trademark infringement.

I think a lot of people on this forum will understand if you decide that printing the t-shirts is not worth your time, effort, money, and risk of liability.

[jtwcornell91]

Before I make my point, let's all point at the Harvard(tm) official's poor diction and laugh:

you site the mark HAHVAHD

::laugh::

Okay, now here's my suggestion: if you just want to make a point and not get the official blessing of the schools on the piece of merchandise, how about going back to the original design and covering each mention of Cornell or Harvard with a big reverse-video "CENSORED"?  E.g.,

C[CENSORED]l vs H[CENSORED]d

Welcome to H[CENSORED]d

Anyone who would care will know which schools you're talking about and you'll also get to make a statement about the absurdity of the whole thing.  IANAL, but this seems like little more of a trademark violation than the censored-out "Taylor" on the Bully Hill wine bottles.

With regard to future enterprises, I am reminded of a saying I first heard from an employer: "It is easier to obtain forgiveness than permission."

[DeltaOne81]

With the IANAL disclaimer in full force here too, if you went to the t-shirt guy and said "hey, it's just a parody" and maybe signed something saying you take responsibility, I have a hard time believing he wouldn't accept the business. I think that your request of them put them in an impossible position. The idea of it being a parody is that you don't need permission. So then you go to them and ask permission to use what you claim is a parody. They can say yes and risk dilution of the trademark/set a precedent for insulting use of their name or they can say no and cover their asses.

In addition, I really can't see anyone sending a lawyer out to get you after the fact. It's no big deal for them to say no if you ask them, it's another story entirely for them to decide it's worth legal bills, bad press, and court time to fight a guy who has already made and sold maybe a few dozen t-shirts. Worse case you promise not to do it again and the shirt becomes a collector's item ;-).

If you're not comfortable with that, just go with JTW's idea. It's funny and, IMHO, is certainly outside the realm of anything they'd ever want to fight.

-Fred

[A-19]

Good call Fred. I sent Rick Calixto at Harvard an e-mail an hour ago to make sure we were on the same page. I asked if it was just his opinion it wasn't a parody, or if Harvard intended to take action against me. Maybe he has every incentive to say yes. But at least then I'll know.

-Mike

[jeh25]

Dude. At this point I think everyone would understand if you just want to bail.  Twenty t-shirts isn't worth putting yourself through this. I wouldn't do it in your shoes.

-John

[melissa\'01]

I agree with John. It isn't worth it.

However - just curious. Did someone already nix the "Crimson /Red" usage as also being under trademark and thus subect to approval? They are so vague that such usage could hardly be an issue - no?