[OT] Cornell on Berman's Top 10 on Sportscenter

[Al DeFlorio]

[Q]Beeeej Wrote:

 What an amazing coincidence that you attended every game he did!

Beeeej[/q]
I can say first-hand that Cornell-Brown games at Meehan were sold out in the late 60s and early 70s.

[Josh 03]

Cornell basketball plays the first NCAA DI game of the season tonight at 6pm against St. Francis at the Carrier Dome (part of the Coaches vs Cancer Classic).  It was cool to see their name in a DC paper this morning.  Though I'm sure the Syracuse game that follows will get all of the Sportscenter attention, maybe CU will get their 2nd mention of the week.

[Q]CM cWo 44 Wrote:

--> Just thought it was cool considering they showed footage of Schoellkopf from the early 70's, plus it must be noted considering Cornell is mentioned on Sportscenter about once every 3 years. Here's to hoping that we'll be prominantly featured come early April.[/q]

[Hillel Hoffmann]

[Q]Rich S Wrote: I have forgotten how close he came to winning the Heisman?[/q]
Really close. He was edged out by Auburn QB (and future Falcons flameout) Pat Sullivan. Still pisses me off.

[billhoward]

[Q]Rich S Wrote: Bill, I have  forgotten how close he came to winning the Heisman?[/q]Sorry, I forgot this was a serious question whose answer isn't etched into the minds of every football fan in the Northeast. Ed Marinaro '72 dominated football rushing in 1971, breaking the career rushing record by ~1,000 yards (as I mentioned before, had he played 10 game seasons, he would have been the first player to rush for 4,000 and 5,000 yards in a career), and improving on OJ's single season per-game rushing record by 35 yards (from like 175 to 209 per game), etcetera. Dominant even if he was an Ivy Leaguer.

When Sports Illustrated put him on the cover that fall hightlighting "A Rampage of Running Backs" (and yes I believe Cornell did win the next weekend - the 24-14 Dartmouth loss wasn't till later), the story mentioned doubts about the level of the Cornell competition, but one pro scout was quoted as saying, "That's a lot of yards even against a tackling dummy." The other contender was Auburn QB Pat Sullivan, who had an All-America year and was probably the best of the QBs. He did set that year a record for most TDs accounted for by a QB (passed for and ran for).

In the Heisman voting, and here my recall is a bit hazy, Sullivan edged Marinaro because:
- Marinaro won among voters in the East and Sullivan was runner up or third.
- Marinaro and Sullivan were close in the other regions. I think Ed was ahead though.
- Sullivan won in the South where Marinaro was left off many of the ballots. If Marinaro got as many second/third place votes in the South as Sullivan got in the East, Marinaro would have won. In other words, Johnny Reb with the typewriter was still ticked about Sherman's march down south and more lately those pesky civil rights workers, and this set matters straight.

And that was pretty much the last gasp of Ivy League football greatness before the Ivies were demoted to Division IAA at the close of the decade. And further demoted by the Ivy presidents who make football the one sport where Ivy teams can't compete in an NCAA playoff. (The best Ivy school many years would have a chance to win given title games have been played in recent years by Colgate, UMass, Delaware, etcetera).

Critics will point out that Marinaro had merely an okay pro career as proof he didn't deserve to win. Marinaro did run into a string of injuries and played initially for a running back-heavy team, the Vikings. Given his NJ heritage, it's too bad he didn't play his career (all of it) with the Jets or Giants. Pat Sullivan played several years in the NFL but never was one of the all-time greats, either. Sadly, Sullivan was diagnosed recently with mouth cancer from decades of using smokeless tobacco. He's a legend down south and deserves better.

At the time, the Heisman was a huge award and people actually cared about it and talked about it. Sort of like the Miss America pageant.


Marinaro on the cover of Sports Illustrated in 1971. Note simplicity
of the uniforms. At least Big Red hockey carries on the tradition.

[jkahn]

 [Q]Rich S Wrote: I have forgotten how close he came to winning the Heisman?[/Q]

Also, at that point all ballots had to be mailed before what was the final Saturday of the football season, with a few scheduled games, one of which was Auburn-Alabama.  Sullivan threw five interceptions on national TV, and there was a lot of conjecture that if ballots were due a week later, Marinaro would've won it.

[Hillel Hoffmann]

Yes, the Cornell uniforms from that era are the archetype.

Speaking of archetypes: Every time I see Harvard's khaki football pants, I laugh. What a perfect symbol.

[KeithK]

[Q]Speaking of archetypes: Every time I see Harvard's khaki football pants, I laugh. What a perfect symbol.[/q]OMG, please tell me you're joking about that.  Ack.

[Hillel Hoffmann]

[Q]KeithK Wrote:

 [Q2]Speaking of archetypes: Every time I see Harvard's khaki football pants, I laugh. What a perfect symbol.[/Q]
OMG, please tell me you're joking about that.  Ack.

[/q]
Yes, Harvard's laughable khaki football pants are a perfect symbol ... of hidebound, waspy lameness.

[Trotsky]

[Q]billhoward Wrote:
Marinaro on the cover of Sports Illustrated in 1971. Note simplicity
of the uniforms. At least Big Red hockey carries on the tradition.[/q]

Wow, that uniform is sharp, especially the C on the helmet!  It would be great if they returned to those.

[billhoward]

[Q]Trotsky Wrote:
 [Q2]billhoward Wrote: Marinaro on the cover of Sports Illustrated in 1971. Note simplicity of the uniforms. At least Big Red hockey carries on the tradition.[/Q]Wow, that uniform is sharp, especially the C on the helmet!  It would be great if they returned to those.[/q]What you don't see from the cover photo, my friend -- remember this was the '70s -- is the bell-bottom uniform pants and platform cleats.

It's not a big thing for most fans, but the jersey numbers were big and easy to for photographers to ID. Putting numbers on the helmet has helped in recent years. It's always scary when a team decides it wants jersey numbers only on the backs.

If you want to see what the hockey team's pants looked like in the 1970s, you can get a very, very good idea by looking at their current pants. I bet Coach Schafer's golden retriever can tell which pair Mike wore.

And to clear up an ugly rumor once and for all: The pictures I took for the Sun of streakers during that era never were turned over to the football coaches for examination and prosecution. Or Dick Bertrand. We were early believers in "what goes on here, stays here." It is true my girlfriend's sorority had proposed a charity event where they'd black out the faces and see how many guys the various sororities could identify ...

[Al DeFlorio]

[Q]Hillel Hoffmann Wrote:

 Yes, the Cornell uniforms from that era are the archetype.

Speaking of archetypes: Every time I see Harvard's khaki football pants, I laugh. What a perfect symbol.[/q]

Back in the day, neutral-colored football pants were not uncommon.  Yale wore gold pants at home in the 50s and Cornell wore grey pants at Schoellkopf during the Tom Harp era, 1961-1965.

[Scott Kominkiewicz]

> And that was pretty much the last gasp of Ivy League football greatness before the Ivies were demoted to Division IAA at the close of the decade. <

Bill, I enjoyed your post about the achievements of Marinaro and their place in NCAA football lore.  Small correction in that the Ivies were doomed to Division 1-AA in 1982.  I remember being a benchsitter on the 1981 team, the last year of 1-A for the Ivies, and an 8-0 Yale squad came to Ithaca for Homecoming.  I think they were ranked in the AP top 20 that week (1-A, mind you) and was one of only 2 or 3 undefeated teams in the country.  It snowed about 4 inches the night before, but we still had a big crowd.  An even bigger surprise was the fact that we went into halftime with the lead.  When we came out of the locker room for the second half, I was shocked to see a full Crescent.  I had the liberty of noticing these things since I knew that I had a better chance of being elected Pope that year than getting into the game.  Nonetheless, the official attendance showed a crowd of only 15,000 or so.  My guess is that a lot of people came into the stadium at halftime when tickets were no longer collected.  (One of my professors told me after the game that he had done so after listening to the first half on the radio.)  Unfortunately, we lost in the 4th quarter, and that was Cornell's last chance at making 1-A hay.  Perhaps the league's last 1-A gasp for greatness (or okay-ness) was that the Eli's Rich Diana was a finalist for the Heisman that year; something we will probably never see again.  It was also Derrick Harmon's first year of varsity ball, for which he received some kind of honors, and rightly so.

It kinda sticks in my craw the way that Ivy football has been relegated to the football third world (or the second, at least).  :-P   It seems to me that there can be some niche between the over-the-top Miami, Oklahoma, Florida St. style football programs and what we have now in the Ivy League.  What a shame.

[jtwcornell91]

[Q]Hillel Hoffmann Wrote:

 [Q2]KeithK Wrote:

 [Q2]Speaking of archetypes: Every time I see Harvard's khaki football pants, I laugh. What a perfect symbol.[/Q]
OMG, please tell me you're joking about that.  Ack.

[/Q]
Yes, Harvard's laughable khaki football pants are a perfect symbol ... of hidebound, waspy lameness.[/q]

Hey, there's nothing wrong with khakis! :-(

[RichH]

[Q]jtwcornell91 Wrote:

 [Q2]Hillel Hoffmann Wrote:

 [Q2]KeithK Wrote:

 [Q2]Speaking of archetypes: Every time I see Harvard's khaki football pants, I laugh. What a perfect symbol.[/Q]
OMG, please tell me you're joking about that.  Ack.

[/Q]
Yes, Harvard's laughable khaki football pants are a perfect symbol ... of hidebound, waspy lameness.[/Q]
Hey, there's nothing wrong with khakis![/q]

Or waspy lameness!!  

 ::worry::

[Rich S]

No, obviously I did not but I did listen to a few on radio from Brown and in the early 70s, they were, for the most part, not that well-attended.  This I learned not only form hearing Clarkson games there on the  radio but also from friends who attended Brown.

Satisfied now Beej?