NCAA Tournament Expansion

Grady Whittenburg · April 30, 2002, 09:46:44 AM

Not unless they expanded it since my last visit there two weeks ago for a UHL playoff game. That 7,200 figure is what I assuming they squeeze in there for concerts.

There is talk of state money coming in with the new AHL team this year ('02-'03) and they are looking to expand hockey capacity to 6,000 with luxury boxes as well.

DeltaOne81 · April 30, 2002, 02:28:21 PM

New AHL team?! Where? Binghamton? That'd be nice for them, but the 90s killed that dream last time, so I'm slightly skeptical - then again, if places like St. John's, Hamilton, Hershey, etc can prove themselves, I wish Binghamton the best.

(I was a Hartford Wolf Pack diehard before I came to Cornell, so I still like to keep up 'my' old league)

-Fred, DeltaOne81 '03

(Edit: okay - I found it - http://theahl.com/AHLNews0202/14_bing.html
neat... 28 down, 2 to go I suppose :-) ).

Grady Whittenburg · April 30, 2002, 03:53:57 PM

The Hartford Wolfpack, huh??? Do you know their lineage??? They were the former Binghamton Rangers in the "A" before the local owners had much money dangled in front of their noses by MSG...locals take the money...MSG now has a team to move and fill 40+ dates at the newly vacated Hartford Civiic Center (Whalers to Carolina that spring)...many Binghamton fans heartbroken over loss of the second best hockey league in the land...forced to suffer with the low level UHL for the past 5 seasons...

Cannot wait for the Wolfpack to make their first visit to Binghamton this year. Their reception should be interesting to say the least!

DeltaOne81 · May 01, 2002, 12:40:41 AM

Yeah, yeah, I completely know their lineage. At the same time, the old Greensboro AHL team (the monarchs, I believe?) were forced out of there and moved to New Haven as the New Haven Beast, who folded a few years later after they couldn't find the required affiliate - Carolina dropped them, don't remember why.

I guess I was under the impression the team had been struggling in Bingo, as I've heard AHL fans call the city. Between that and the Binghamton Mets (I'm an NY Mets fans) I've always felt a connection to the city. Then I took Shortline through downtown... eeeww, and I thought Troy was bad :-P .

Oh, and just to prove that I really know the lineage... do you know what they were before the Binghamton Rangers (you very well might)? The Binghamton Whalers. Then Hartford moved their affiliation to neighboring Springfield and the Rangers stepped in and saved the team. So the Hartford Whalers leave and are replaced by another ex-Whalers. The circle of hockey, I suppose :-).

-Fred, DeltaOne81 '03

P.S. The biggest travesty in pro hockey was still the Minnesota North Stars, IMHO, but I guess that one's been atoned for.

Josh '99 · May 01, 2002, 10:30:00 AM

Actually, they aren't (weren't?) the New Haven Beast, they're the Beast of New Haven. It's kinda like the Mighty Ducks of Anaheim, only not as catchy. :-P

nshapiro · May 01, 2002, 02:57:04 PM

Actually, I don't know how you choose to trace lineage, but the Binghamton Rangers could be traced to the previous Rangers affiliate, the New Haven Nighthawks, rather than the Binghamton Whalers. This would bring in a Cornell connection, since both Darren Eliot and Duane Moeser played a few games for the Nighthawks

jeh25 · May 01, 2002, 05:00:18 PM

But can you link them back to Kevin Bacon? B-]

DeltaOne81 · May 01, 2002, 05:01:10 PM

QuoteActually, I don't know how you choose to trace lineage, but the Binghamton Rangers could be traced to the previous Rangers affiliate, the New Haven Nighthawks, rather than the Binghamton Whalers. This would bring in a Cornell connection, since both Darren Eliot and Duane Moeser played a few games for the Nighthawks

I was under the impression that the ownership in Binghamton, and hence the franchise itself, never changed during the Whalers/Rangers switch over. Many (though not all) AHL teams are independently owned, and can switch affiliations several times while still being the same team (take a look at the Springfield Falcons of a couple years ago who changed their secondary affiliate probably 3 times in 3 years).

Of course, then you have situations like Hershey who has always had a team named the Hershey Bears for, what, 50 years now? But, if I remember correctly, the franchise is not the same. A couple years ago the team moved to become the Philadelphia Phantoms. At the same time the Quebec Nordiques (sp?) moved to Colorado, so they transferred their franchise from Cornwall, Que to Hershey, keeping a team there.

-Fred, DeltaOne81 '03

jtwcornell91 · May 01, 2002, 05:17:45 PM

DeltaOne81 '03 wrote:

QuoteOf course, then you have situations like Hershey who has always had a team named the Hershey Bears for, what, 50 years now? But, if I remember correctly, the franchise is not the same.

Sorta like the Cleveland Browns?

nshapiro · May 01, 2002, 05:35:47 PM

NO PROBLEM...

Darren was a teammate of Luc Robitaille with the LA Kings in the mid 80's...

Luc was in D2: The Mighty Ducks with Emilio Estevez...

Emilio was in St. Elmos Fire with Demi Moore...

Demi Moore was in A Few Good Men with Kevin Bacon.

Ask me a hard one.

zg88 · May 01, 2002, 06:00:31 PM

::laugh::

DeltaOne81 · May 02, 2002, 12:46:51 AM

QuoteSorta like the Cleveland Browns?

Sorta, except there was never a year without a team - so if you looked back at standings or something through the years, you'd have no reason to think anything ever happened... pretty good timing, I'd say.

-Fred, DeltaOne81 '03

KeithK · May 02, 2002, 12:52:56 AM

No, not really like the Cleveland Browns, at least according to the offical NFL line. According to the league, the Cleveland Browns franchise never left for Baltimore. They just lost all of their players to a new Baltimore franchise, stopped playing for a couple seasons and had a replenishment draft when they began play again.

I'm not really joking here. This was part of the final agreement when Modell left town. The official NFL recordbooks list a single Browns franchise that stopped playing for a couple years but still has all-time records, etc. dating back to the early days of the league.

jtwcornell91 · May 02, 2002, 08:20:11 AM

So, Modell gave the franchise to the league in exchange for an expansion franchise in Baltimore with all his players and staff? That's frelled up.

So I guess it's more like the Dallas Texans or Washington Senators, a team that periodically forms and then moves someplace else and changes its name.

Greg Berge · May 02, 2002, 03:19:35 PM

I think the idea that the records belong to the city (and its fans) is a good one. Los Angeles has no call on the records of a certain team in Brooklyn, nor another in Minneapolis, nor another in Oakland (although that has been atoned for, if that's the right word for anything to do with Al Davis). For that matter, the Chicago Black Hawks shouldn't be able to take credit for the first US challenge for the Stanley Cup (the beloved Portland Rosebuds).

The Browns situation was weird -- franchise moves are almost always an a**f***ing, but rarely does the league admit it as honestly as the NFL did. Generally speaking, I believe records should rest in peace after the MBA's get done looting.