How good are the Patriots?

Red Man · January 26, 2005, 12:18:11 PM

I know this is off topic for this board but I just wanted to comment how impressed I am with what is going on in Foxborough. The team first attitude is a rarity in professional sports and a shining example to amateur athetics of all kinds. I am a NYC guy therefore this pains me to admit but they have become the mid 90s Yankees without the benefit of an outsized pay structure. This might be the most impressive professional sports team that I have ever watched. How can you not admire these guys?

Is there any doubt that they will dismantle the Eagles?

dsr11 · January 26, 2005, 12:42:37 PM

nope. eagles don't stand a chance, even if TO does play.

Nate 04 · January 26, 2005, 12:50:23 PM

[Q] nope. eagles don't stand a chance, even if TO does play.[/Q]

Funny thing that is what everyone said about the Pats three years ago. That's what everyone said about the Pats this year against the Colts and the Steelers. That's what everyone said about the Panthers last year and they made it a hell of a game. All I'm saying is that when everyone is going for one team, it might be better to go the other way (sorry, stole that from the playoff gambling manifesto by Bill Simmons). I don't think the Pats are unbeatable and I'm hoping that it shows next week.

That said: E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!

RichH · January 26, 2005, 01:00:53 PM

[Q]Is there any doubt that they will dismantle the Eagles? [/Q]

Pats vs. Rams, Super Bowl XXXVI
Douglas vs. Tyson, 1990
Dodgers vs. A's, 1988
Villanova vs. Georgetown, 1985
USA vs. USSR, 1980
Mets vs. Orioles, 1969
Jets vs. Colts, Super Bowl III
USA vs. USSR, 1960

Jordan 04 · January 26, 2005, 01:23:36 PM

To answer the post, IMO:

The Patriots are a very good team.

They do, however, have a great coach.

CowbellGuy · January 26, 2005, 01:40:09 PM

Dolphins 29 - Patriots 28
12/20/04
:-P

Red Man · January 26, 2005, 01:50:02 PM

You listed 8 epic upsets. For each of these there are about 800 in which the overwhelming favorite prevailed. There are your odds.

To be fair I don't think an eagles victory will qualify as an upset of the same kind of magitude as those.

I feel sorry for the Eagles and their fans....they are a lock to suffer from happy-to-be-there syndrome.

It will not be until after they lose that the realize that despite the euphoria of last week's win they will have accomplished nothing.

Nate 04 · January 26, 2005, 01:58:21 PM

Wait...isn't that what everyone said about the Red Sox. That beating the Yankees was their world series. Then they went out and beat the Cardinals to pulp. I'm not saying the Eagles will beat the Pats to pulp, just pointing out that this year (well the last 12 months) have been pretty crazy for sports.

Not to mention this could be destiny, check out the relationship of 4's

NFC Championship Games
'01 Eagles lose to Rams
'02 Eagles lose to Bucs
'03 Eagles lose to Panthers
'04 Eagles beat the Vikes

Philadelphia Championship Games
'93 Phillies lose to Blue Jays
'97 Flyers lose to Red Wings
'01 Sixers lose to Lakers
'04 Eagles _______ Patriots

So, after 4 tries, the Eagles win. After 4 tries, separated by 4 years, what does the 4th major sports team to get to the championship game do?

I really detest this 2 week layoff...I want the game this weekend!

RichH · January 26, 2005, 02:20:46 PM

[Q]Red Man Wrote:

You listed 8 epic upsets. For each of these there are about 800 in which the overwhelming favorite prevailed. There are your odds. [/q]
True, but I was just answering (in a round-about way) your question about if there were any doubt. The answer should be yes.

RichH · January 26, 2005, 02:27:07 PM

[Q]Nate 04 Wrote:

Wait...isn't that what everyone said about the Red Sox. That beating the Yankees was their world series. [/Q]

No, I think "everyone" said that the win vs. the Yankees wouldn't mean as much unless they went on to beat the Cardinals and finally ended their drought.

[Q]Not to mention this could be destiny, check out the relationship of 4's[/Q]
Now you have stretched the "destiny" cliche as far as anyone I've ever seen.

Personally, I have no real rooting interest. It's good for a change to have a major championship that I'm not rooting against anyone. The Pats are the clear favorite this year. As the Dolphins proved, it isn't a sure thing.

Nate 04 · January 26, 2005, 02:31:24 PM

All I've heard is the other D word "Dynasty" Since I'm as much an Eagles fan as a Pats hater (being a Bills fan), I like to put in a good word for them.

Also being a Syracuse fan, I'd love to see Donnie McNabb win the big one. The only other championship game he was in, was when he sat at the end of the SU basketball bench and loved every minute of it. Now he's the one in the driver's seat. (The drivers seat Tedy Bruschi intends to eject him from, I'm sure).

Greg Berge · January 26, 2005, 02:41:08 PM

I hate the Patriots, but they are the best-coached team and best-run organization since the Niners. I wouldn't put them in the class of the super teams of the 70's (e.g., Dolphins, Steelers) but that may be nostalgia triumphing over judgment. Clearly, if they win 3 SBs in 4 years, they will be worthy of consideration as a great team.

CUlater 89 · January 26, 2005, 03:15:02 PM

If there's any organization similar to the Patriots in the NFL, it's the Eagles. Like the Pats, their management is routinely praised for their savvy cap management and ability to identify key players to retain and key players to bring in. For similar reasons that Corey Dillon wanted to join the Pats, TO and Jevon Kearse wanted to join the Eagles. Both teams have well-regarded head coaches and coordinators at the top of their professions (and highly sought after as head coaches).

To say that the Eagles will definitely suffer from being just happy to be there is to buy into a cliche. What about the Eagles or their coaches make you think that will happen? Listen to what the players are saying in the media. And so many "experts" are expecting that to be the case that the players and coaches can't help but to guard against that happening. Not to mention that Andy Reid is something like 8-0 coming off bye weeks.

That's not to say the Pats won't win, or shouldn't be heavily favored. It's unlikely that the Eagles can win unless McNabb has an MVP-caliber game and is able to read the Pats defenses and make the right decisions of where to put the ball.

Also, regarding the mid-to-late-90s Yankees, I wouldn't say their pay structure was "outsized". In 1998, their best season, their payroll's standard deviation score was only about 1.25. In 2003, it was almost 2.50.
See: http://www.businessofbaseball.com/yankeespayroll.htm

In 1998, the Yankees didn't even have the highest payroll on Opening Day; that honor belonged to the Orioles and Atlanta and Cleveland were very close.

Red Man · January 26, 2005, 03:38:46 PM

To compare the Eagles to the Patriots on or off the field is blasphemy. The Eagles have players who devise end zone dances (not just TO) and their receivers, who shy from hits, were seen grabbing their package on nationalTV following their win on Sunday. They have 9 pro-bowlers to the Patriots 2 yet have a recent history of choking in big games. They might be trying to become the Patriots but they are not there. Not even close.

And as for the Yankees, their payroll even back them was more than 2x the league avarage (look it up). There may have been a few teams with similar payrolls (but not anymore). The Patriots are doing this with a payroll that is essentially identical to all of the other teams. Big difference.

CUlater 89 · January 26, 2005, 04:01:59 PM

[Q]Red Man Wrote:

To compare the Eagles to the Patriots on or off the field is blasphemy. The Eagles have players who devise end zone dances (not just TO) and their receivers, who shy from hits, were seen grabbing their package on nationalTV following their win on Sunday. They have 9 pro-bowlers to the Patriots 2 yet have a recent history of choking in big games. They might be trying to become the Patriots but they are not there. Not even close.

And as for the Yankees, their payroll even back them was more than 2x the league avarage (look it up). There may have been a few teams with similar payrolls (but not anymore). The Patriots are doing this with a payroll that is essentially identical to all of the other teams. Big difference. [/q]

End zone dances -- shocking! The nerve of some people. ::rolleyes::

The Eagles are known throughout the league as one of the classiest organizations in the NFL, whether you agree or not. As for "chokes", the Eagles were underdogs to the Rams when they lost at St. Louis, the Bucs should have been favored against the Eagles and only weren't because of the "cold weather" issue against them and the Panthers showed how good of a team they were last season by almost beating the Patriots (but for a lousy kickoff after their last score, the game might have turned out differently).

In 1998, the median team payroll in the league was about $40 million; the Yankees ended at $63 million, SECOND in the league. How can anyone say their payroll was "outsized" that year when there were other teams spending more or close to the same amount?