Sun interview with Noel

[Tom Lento]

I think Chris has it right on with his comment about everyone here hating Noel.  Talk about a whole lot of uproar over nothing.

I have never been a big fan of Noel.  I had a run-in with him while he was assistant AD, and I thought he was over the top with me, although I have to admit he had a point.  We all know about the sports pass debacle, and based on my limited information I don't think they handled the hiring of the football coach as well as they could have.  I was really unhappy with the women's hockey coaching situation a few years back, but Noel made up for that with the hiring of Davidson, who certainly had all of the credentials and has done a nice job so far.  So it's not as if I love the guy, but I think the eLF regulars take this a bit too far.

Some comments:

1)  The article is intended to be a light interview.  Get off your high horse(s) about "good reporting" and think about this from the perspective of someone who isn't a huge hockey fan.  I know it's difficult, but apart from the hockey fans, nobody cares what Cornell does to Lynah Rink.  So maybe leaving that extra bit of info out *is* good reporting.

This piece is a replica of ESPN.com's "10 Burning Questions," which appears pretty regularly on Page 2.  The past articles in this series are the same way, and I think they're pretty good.  If you come expecting a serious interview, you'll be disappointed, but it's clear early on that this piece is not supposed to be serious.  Incidentally, the Page 2 interviewees that do the best are people like Ichiro Suzuki and Julie Foudy, who say silly things about mascots and have fun with the interview.  Someone like Pedro Martinez, who takes himself too seriously, is actually annoying in this context.  Kudos to Noel for having a little bit of fun without saying anything an AD shouldn't be saying (see the question about the hottest women's team for an example, and read the whole thing, not just his initial canned response).

2)  Noel is a huge fan of Cornell athletics.  In fact, he's a huge fan of a number of sports other than men's ice hockey, which few Cornellians can boast.  I think his choice of great sports moments is telling.  He doesn't mention last year's Frozen Four run, but he mentions men's and women's lacrosse, and wrestling.  I should add that as the assistant AD, he went to many of the women's hockey games, which, as a women's hockey fan, always impressed me.  

I would think being a Cornell sports fan would be a positive quality in our athletic director, but we can turn that into a cause for complaint.  He jumps into an area without proper ID, so he should get fired?  Riiiiight.  If Lee's roommate had done the same thing, you'd all be complaining about the unfairness of the system.  If the first person over the glass when the hockey team made it to Placid in 95 had been arrested, there'd be a huge uproar.  In fact, everyone would have called for the AD's head.  When the AD forgets himself in his excitement over an athletic achievement, he's a jerk who should lose his job.  Sound silly yet?

Oh yes, before the inevitable response - I realize an AD is held to a different standard of behavior than an average fan.  Even so, if it was an AD other than Noel everyone would think this was endearing and a clear illustration of his love for Cornell athletics.  In fact, if it was an AD at another school, we'd probably hear "Andy Noel could learn a thing or two from this guy."

3)  The free parking thing was something fun and silly in the interview, and it's not as if he's saying athletes should have free parking everywhere.  Just Teagle and the Crescent lot, which makes sense if you think about the locations of those lots and where the athletes spend most of their time.  This may be a violation of NCAA regulations, which may be one of many reasons why it hasn't happened yet.  Does it matter if he's saying he agrees with the athletes, when he *knows* the parking fee structure will not be changed on the whim of the athletic department?  You know it isn't going to change, I know it isn't going to change, and I promise you Andy Noel knows it isn't going to change.  So what's the harm in him having some fun with that part of the interview?

Most of the complaints about this article are simply ridiculous.  Seriously.  Even the complaints about the ugly huggy bear logo.  So Noel is proud of the new logo?  It's a lot better for him to be proud.  What would you all say if he was ashamed of the new logo?  And it's not as if it's the logo on all of the uniforms.  I haven't seen the men's hockey team exchanging their classic jerseys for an ECHL style huggy bear logo sweater.  Ugh.  Heaven forbid.  When the women's hockey team got new jerseys a couple of seasons ago, they went with the Red Wings style Cornell jerseys.  I didn't like the choice, but at least they're better than minor league hockey jerseys.  Heck, they're better than most NHL jerseys.

[Tom Lento]

[Q]Shorts Wrote:

Consider the Daily Show and Jon Stewart's method of interviewing, which has won him a lot of positive recognition.  When he interviews major public figures, the interviews are at times "flippant" and almost always lighthearted, but he almost always finds a way to squeeze in at least one tough, serious question.[/q]

Yikes.  I feel like a shill for the Daily Sun.

Anyway, Noel's comment about Lynah came from a serious question.

[q]5. What kinds of things can we expect from the Athletic Department in the near future?[/q]

Without that, we never would have heard about Lynah, and I doubt anyone would be complaining about it.  As I said, a significant percentage of the readership for this article couldn't care less about renovations to Lynah, just as most of us couldn't care less about the rehab and expansion of Schoellkopf Memorial Hall.

[CUlater 89]

The problem with this interview, as with other things that have appeared in the Sun sports section, is that it is "derivative" of an idea used at another media outlet (in this case, Page 2 at espn.com, where they run half-serious, half-fun "10 Questions with..." interviews from time to time, which include such questions as who would you have dinner with, from anyone in history and which superpower would you like to have and why).

The difference is that those interviewees are often interviewed seriously elsewhere, so we generally know their opinions on the serious issues;  Andy Noel is not often interviewed by the Sun and so on the rare occasion that he sits with a Sun reporter, many readers would prefer to have him address serious stuff.

The larger issue for me is how unoriginal the Sun has been of late, what with this type of interview and the very-poorly-executed version of "The Writer's Bloc" that they "borrowed" from Page 2.  Too many columnists use the paper as an opportunity to mention their friends or otherwise regale us with their personal adventures, mistaking the Sun for their personal diary.  In addition, although some of the sports stories are well-written, many show a lack of interviewing or reporting skills.  Interviews with opposing coaches or players during the week before a game are noticeably few and far between.

[KeithK]

Yes, some of us are taking this too seriously.  For reasons stated in other posts.  But I have to comment on one thing:
[q]Seriously. Even the complaints about the ugly huggy bear logo. So Noel is proud of the new logo? It's a lot better for him to be proud. [/q]Yes, it would be better if he learned to be ashamed of the new logo.  'Cuz then he might get rid of it :-P

[billhoward]

[Q]CUlater 89 Wrote:

 The problem with this interview, as with other things that have appeared in the Sun sports section, is that it is "derivative" of an idea used at another media outlet (in this case, Page 2 at espn.com, where they run half-serious, half-fun "10 Questions with..." interviews from time to time, which include such questions as who would you have dinner with, from anyone in history and which superpower would you like to have and why).

The difference is that those interviewees are often interviewed seriously elsewhere, so we generally know their opinions on the serious issues;  Andy Noel is not often interviewed by the Sun and so on the rare occasion that he sits with a Sun reporter, many readers would prefer to have him address serious stuff.

The larger issue for me is how unoriginal the Sun has been of late, what with this type of interview and the very-poorly-executed version of "The Writer's Bloc" that they "borrowed" from Page 2.  Too many columnists use the paper as an opportunity to mention their friends or otherwise regale us with their personal adventures, mistaking the Sun for their personal diary.  In addition, although some of the sports stories are well-written, many show a lack of interviewing or reporting skills.  Interviews with opposing coaches or players during the week before a game are noticeably few and far between.[/q]

Such-and-such is derived from ESPN.com or ESPN the magazine? Virtually everything there derives from somewhere else, too. SI does a quick five-questions column. Lots of magazines do Twenty Questions interview (Playboy has for years.) Even Dorothy Parker's flip writing ("Hepburn's emotions ran the gamut from A to B.") had antecedents.

The Cornell Sun remains the finest undergraduate college journalism program in New York. (Columbia has a good academic program, but it's a grad school. Syracuse/Newhouse is a decent trade school but if you need to take a semester understanding the who why what when where how mantra, that's a semester you could have spent taking real academic courses.) The Sun operates at no cost to Cornell University other than the psychic cost to Cornell when someone in Day Hall gets caught doing or not doing something. And like the athletics program, there are rough edges; these are students doing, learning, and learning from their mistakes.

Of interest is that the Sun has become a bit more mainstream of late. By that I mean the least represented minority at the Sun was not blacks or Hispanics, but Greeks. Other than the sports department, in decades past, if you were in a fraternity or sorority, you weren't working for the Sun. That's changing. I think that means more mainstream points of view will be represented across the board.

The Sun also runs way more sports than in previous decades. When I was an undergrad, I wrote sports not news because I believe real news is Dear Abby, the crossword, and sports. Most students didn't and still don't give a rap about the "real" news on Page 1, stuff like "Student Assembly Discusses Dorm Advisory Council Participation." The Sun also has a way better weekend/entertainment section. That's not important to campus radicals; it is important to everyone else trying to figure out where to go on a date. Assuming one has a date.

A light-hearted interview with Andy Noel is fine. A follow-up about what's really going to happen at Lynah would be better. One out of two is better than none out of two.

I met with some of the current Sun people last week at a NYC reception. They said Jeff Lehman a) seems like a regular guy and b) really likes sports. Compared to Cornell's previous half century of tallish presidents, one said, he seems like a munchkin and bears a slight passing resemblance to Bill Gates.

[ninian '72]

[Q]KeithK Wrote:

 Yes, some of us are taking this too seriously.  For reasons stated in other posts.  But I have to comment on one thing:
[Q2]Seriously. Even the complaints about the ugly huggy bear logo. So Noel is proud of the new logo? It's a lot better for him to be proud. [/Q]
Yes, it would be better if he learned to be ashamed of the new logo.  'Cuz then he might get rid of it  [/q]

Could be worse, guys:

[Al DeFlorio]

[Q]Tom Lento Wrote:
Without that, we never would have heard about Lynah, and I doubt anyone would be complaining about it [Al's italics].  As I said, a significant percentage of the readership for this article couldn't care less about renovations to Lynah, just as most of us couldn't care less about the rehab and expansion of Schoellkopf Memorial Hall.
[/q]
Exactly right [the italicized clause, that is].  That's my only complaint about the article--the lack of follow-up to Noel's "renovation" comment.   Saying the article was "rather flippantly-written" was simply an accurate description, so that people linking to it wouldn't be expecting an in-depth analysis.  No reason for the whining and overreaction from the author and others.

There is a big difference between Lynah and "Schoellkopf Memorial Hall," Tom.  The former is either #1 or #2 (behind Yost) on everyone's list of "best places to watch a college hockey game."  Schoellkopf--expecially the Hall--is on nobody's radar screen.  When the AD tells the student newspaper they're gonna change Lynah, that just begs a follow-up.  If the Duke AD said there were plans for a Cameron make-over, I suspect the student newspaper would want to know more about it.

It will be interesting to see if the staff of "the finest undergraduate college journalism program in New York" will give us a follow-up article.

[CowbellGuy]

[Q]Tom Lento Wrote:
He jumps into an area without proper ID, so he should get fired?  Riiiiight.[/q]
Jesus, Tom. Humor much?

[Greg]

The Sun has some problems, but to rap it for being unoriginal is really reaching.  It's a school paper -- the average age of those writing and making editorial decisions is about 20.  Where exactly are these people supposed to come up with earth-shaking, original ideas -- their vast life experience?  The lessons learned from getting a C in Chem 207?  Cut them some slack, they're kids doing a decent job with limited resources, limited time, and a tyro's knowledge of the craft.

The Sun is no more derivative than Newsweek or McPaper, and at least the Sun staff has a good excuse.

[Jimbo]

you guys really have little to no lives, coming on this website and criticizing an article that is clearly supposed to be funny. every week per interviews a new athlete. it isnt supposed to be serious. you guys sit here and jerk off to anything you can on this website. maybe i'm part of the problem because i actually checked the forum yesterday. go out and get laid instead of focusing on shit that doesnt matter.

[billhoward]

[Q]Greg Wrote:

 The Sun has some problems, but to rap it for being unoriginal is really reaching.  It's a school paper -- the average age of those writing and making editorial decisions is about 20.  Where exactly are these people supposed to come up with earth-shaking, original ideas -- their vast life experience?  The lessons learned from getting a C in Chem 207?  Cut them some slack, they're kids doing a decent job with limited resources, limited time, and a tyro's knowledge of the craft.

The Sun is no more derivative than Newsweek or McPaper, and at least the Sun staff has a good excuse.[/q]

Regarding the Sun and their being "just kids": One of the very dumbest things said by Bob Kane, Cornell's athletic director for the middle part of the 20th century, was his lament at a time when the Student Assembly, or whatever its name circa 1970, had some ability to make the budget tighter or looser for the athletics department. Kane said (actually wrote, meaning he gave it some advance thought) and I'm paraphrasing: "It's a shame something as important as Cornell athletics has to operate at the mercy of 19- and 20-year-olds."  

In that moment of anger, Kane lost sight that the athletic department was also at the mercy of other 19-year-olds -- the ones maybe throwing TD passes, maybe throwing interceptions, and those 19-year-olds could cost the coach his job just as much as the SA's underfunding could cost jobs, or the Sun's writing about the alcoholic who got hired as basketball coach when the athletic department failed to do due diligence ultimately helped cost some jobs.

Most all of Cornell [except for the giant maw of research and the professional grad schools] is about 18- to 22-year-olds learning and improving: the athletes, the students, the Sun, the band. The fact that some of the kids provide entertainment for the alumni (possibly wearing uniforms with a dopier looking bear) is a nice bonus. But we're not the reason Cornell exists.

BTW the Sun is more than just a school paper. It's one of a handful of real papers, meaning it's independent of the college it shares the name with. It doesn't ask the college for a stipend. It has to sell ads, sell subscriptions (well, not after this year - it's going free on campus), it has to attract readers and make money or it's gone. And it's done that now for nearly 125 years. That is not an insignificant difference.

[CUlater 89]

As Bill Howard said, it's not a "school paper", although it is staffed with students.  And being 18-22 is not an excuse for blatantly ripping off a major media outlet.  It isn't necessary to do that to put out a quality (or award-winning) newspaper now, just as it wasn't back in the late '80s, early '90s when I worked there/had input into content.  Mostly, I'm talking about the Bloc, which is just a waste of space.  I actually think it's a good idea to run an informal interview piece; it would be nicer if they didn't use some of the exact same questions that others do.

[billhoward]

[Q]CUlater 89 Wrote:

 As Bill Howard said, it's not a "school paper", although it is staffed with students.  And being 18-22 is not an excuse for blatantly ripping off a major media outlet.  It isn't necessary to do that to put out a quality (or award-winning) newspaper now, just as it wasn't back in the late '80s, early '90s when I worked there/had input into content.  Mostly, I'm talking about the Bloc, which is just a waste of space.  I actually think it's a good idea to run an informal interview piece; it would be nicer if they didn't use some of the exact same questions that others do.[/q]

One of the purposes of the off-the-wall questions is sometimes you get a revealing and unexpected answer. Or you follow up with a normal question and the person eases up on what seems a softball question.

Sometimes Connie Chung leans over real close and whispers in your ear, "Just between you and me ... " and the dolt really believes there is no camera running and spills his heart.

But, yes, it would be good to have someone ask Andy Noel about what's going to happen at Lynah in the way of remodeling. Just not in that story.

[Tom Lento]

Not today, sorry.  :-/

I think my post can be summarized as follows:

1)  I saw nothing wrong with the Sun article.  Maybe there should be a follow-up article about the Lynah restoration, but how do we know it isn't in the works?

2)  Noel gets all the blame and none of the credit for everything associated with Cornell athletics.  Goes with the territory - Charlie Moore said as much in a conversation with a young CHDF denizen after the uproar over the 97-98 crackdown on language in Lynah - but it can be tiresome to read it every offseason.

3)  I miss watching hockey, and I haven't been in the best mood lately.  Maybe I should buy a TV and stop taking it out on all of you people.  ;-)

[CowbellGuy]

[Q]Tom Lento Wrote:
Maybe I should buy a TV and stop taking it out on all of you people.[/q]
Maybe this is all a ploy to get us all to chip in and get you one until hockey starts again. Is that it? That's it, isn't it. ::twak::