[OT] Clemens to Astros

[Robin]

Pettite, Clemens...on the same team again......at least it's in the NL this time.
Although I do think it will be fun when he comes to town to play the Mets--they better let him play..... ::nut::

[Jim Hyla]

Is it not possible that he retired and then Pettitte, as he said he was going to try to do, convinced him to come and pitch? Granted that Pettitte was alot more open because he wanted to be traded closer to home, but frankly, I don't think Clemens would have pitched again unless a special situation like this arose.

It seems to me that there are alot of bitter people out there, and I have three words, get over it. This is professional sports, people move around all the time for many different reasons. Most of the time it's for money, like that certain other player from Texas, that Boston was trying to get. Since that was not his first team, would you also say those same things about him, if he were able to go to your beloved Red Soxs.

Frankly, I find it refreshing when someone chooses to go somewhere because they want to live there. Enough said ::yark:: .

[dss28]

Jim, I do agree with you, but it was Clemens's (is that the proper grammar?) complete disregard for his fans that ticked a lot of people off... he pitched for the Red Sox for 12 years and didn't so much as say, "Thanks for your support throughout the years."  Had he done that, it would have been a different story.

(see the Bill Simmons article I linked above -- it's a bit long, so if you don't want to sit through a lot of stuff, just scroll down until you see the numbered sections:  1. The Slap in the Face 2. The Kick in the Gonads 3.  The Revelation  4.  The Ultimate Violation  5.  The Final Straw.  That sums it all up quite nicely.)

[jtwcornell91]

I'm impressed: Clemens has actually managed to give Yankee and Red Sox fans something to agree on.  What a beautiful day. :`( B-]

[dss28]

 ::laugh::  His purpose in life is now revealed.

[marty]

Sully '00 wrote:

::stupid::

I just can't wait until he has to bat against the Mets... or anyone, for that matter.

So if anyone's scoring at home, he's now turned his back on the Red Sox, the Blue Jays, and the Yankees in his career.  I couldn't hate him any more if he'd played his undergrad ball at Harvard.



Post Edited (01-12-04 15:54)

How about if he played as a frosh for Cornell and then sat out a year so he could play for the Crimson.

[tolya \'04]

Hm... about that Simmons article (http://espn.go.com/page2/s/simmons/010531.html):

"As luck would have it, at the exact same time Clemens was sparkling for a sub-.500 team in a foreign country, Boston fans were falling for two new heroes: Pedro Martinez and Nomar Garciaparra. Both of them were blessed with an innate understanding about Boston fans  -- what baseball means to us, how we value players who play hard, how we revere players with a sense of The Moment, how we love when our heroes acknowledge us and say things like "The fans were great today" or "Nothing beats playing in Boston in front of these fans." Sounds stupid? It's not. That's Boston. We eat that stuff up. "  -Simmons

 ::laugh:: Pedro? Innate understanding of (and attention to) the needs of fans?  ::screwy::

Nearly every time a passionate Boston fans rails on what separates their team from the "evil Yankees," and even sometimes when they go on about how Clemens lacks every decent quality in the world, I feel like there's some sort of crazy alternate universe in which this sort of argument makes sense, and where somehow none of its terms apply to the current Sox (like...say...  Manny... or Lowe... or...)

I suppose all I'm saying is that Clemens is such an easy target, and partly it's because one can use him to deny that any of one's own team's players have anything in common with him.

[tolya \'04]

heh... I put the Neely comment as a new discussion since, well, it's a new discussion topic and all. ::rolleyes::

[gtsully]

tolya '04 wrote:

Nearly every time a passionate Boston fans rails on what separates their team from the "evil Yankees," and even sometimes when they go on about how Clemens lacks every decent quality in the world, I feel like there's some sort of crazy alternate universe in which this sort of argument makes sense, and where somehow none of its terms apply to the current Sox (like...say...  Manny... or Lowe... or...)

How the hell can you even mention Manny Ramirez and Derek Lowe in the same breath?  Manny's a headcase who got his money and now doesn't care about anything else, including running out ground balls, showing up for huge games in the middle of a playoff race, faking illness... etc.

I understand your larger point, but just because Miguel Tejada got miffed about Lowe's celebration after his team came back from being down 2-0 (after Tejada himself made a similar gesture in game 2) does not merit Lowe being cast as a degenerate.

[gtsully]

Rich H '96 wrote:
I said it before: the only reason Clemens said he was retiring was so he could pitch in the Olympics.  Team USA failed to qualify, so back he goes to his love-muffin Pettitte.  Maybe they can double date and be cowboys together, while talking about their 4+ ERAs in Minute Maid Park.

Interesting point about the Olympics.  With Roger, it's always about Roger.  And Pettitte's ERA in Minute Maid could be 5+...

[gtsully]

dss28 wrote:
I definitely agree.

I fully concede that it may just be a bitter and biased Sox fan speaking, but I see him as the Judas of Baseball.

I'll concede that I'm bitter, but I don't think I'm biased here.  Everyone who wasn't wearing pinstriped glasses could see before this happened that he was a scumbag... and now that he's turned his back on them, they can all see it too.  How long until Yankee fans start remembering the times when Clemens was a Blue Jay and threw at Jeter's head?  They were screaming about it at the time, but all was forgiven when he jumped to the Bronx.



Post Edited (01-13-04 11:22)

[dss28]

Did Yankee fans truly "accept" him?



Post Edited (01-13-04 11:56)

[KenP]

dss28 wrote:

Did Yankee fans truly "accept" him?

Personally, I did.  Great ball player, did his job day in and day out.  I certainly "accepted" him more than Weaver, Mondesi, or (going a few years back) Kenny Rogers.

I don't feel personally slighted by this move, although I hope it gives Steinbrenner ulcers.

[gtsully]

Sorry - last post on this thread for me, but I figured people might want to see a view from the other side instead of just from a Red Sox fan.  Naturally, I agree, but I do think that the author (and others) is making a little too big a deal out of this...

http://www.nypost.com/sports/yankees/44819.htm

[dss28]

Page 2 has something similar, written by Jim Caple: http://espn.go.com/page2/s/caple/040113.html