Clarkson fight clip @ eLynah

[Admin]

The clip of the fight and the puck-at-Schafer-launching incident is up at eLynah. Click the Clarkson link in the schedule.

[Chris \'02]

I imagine the original video is much clearer than the quicktime video because it's really hard to tell where Schafer is and where the puck is for the most part.  There is definitely a pair of bare hands that shoot up in the air and it almost positively looks like the shot into the bench is intentional.

[Al DeFlorio]

Age, Mike mentioned on coaches corner that, because the "official" tape of the game ran out before the celebrated fight, he had gotten a tape from "a fan" to review.  Was that fan, by any chance, you?

It was clear on the live broadcast that Scuderi shot it intentionally into the bench area.  All he needed to do was keep it on his stick for two seconds and the game would have been over.

Tufford's comment about O'Flaherty "throwing butt-ends into Palahicky's jaw" is interesting.  Didn't hear about that from our on-the-scene un-biased observer buddy.  

[tml5]

Well, the big clip looked quite good.  A bit dark perhaps, but much much better than I'd expected it to be, and certainly clear enough to get an idea of what was going on.  

I should probably point out that this is the first time I've viewed a clip on ELynah in about 2 years.  Very impressive.

Well done, Age!  Thanks again!

[kaelistus]

Its pretty damn obvious that Scuderi shot that puck intentionally. Did cornell send that clip for review?

As I said before, I'd give him some serious penalty because of this. Intent to injure is a terrible, terrible thing. If I was in charge, all obvious intent to injure things would be automatic removal of the league for the full season. If its 'clear' intent to injure but there could be some wiggle room, then I'd do the DQs.

As for the fight. It seems that Palahicky just went nuts out there... And Poapst got away from him without fighting, then tried to hit Paolini instead. Given that the punching was fairly mild in return, I may consider the DQ to be too harsh.

So.. In summary if I was in charge:
Palahicky gets a game DQ for fighting like an octopus in heat.
Poapst gets a 10 minute Major for fighting*
O'Flagherty gets a 10 minute Major for fighting.
Scuderi gets kicked out of the league for the remainder of 2001-2002

* Does not include possible Colgate intent to injure hit. I didn't see it, so I can't really comment.

Now all I need is someone to appoint me ECAC president....

[Dart~Ben]

10 minute majors? or do you mean the NCAA's automatic 5 min major for fighting, game dq combo?

After the viewing the clip, I'm surprised any of that warrented fighting penalties. I never saw the gloves come off, and I've seen plenty of worse scrums in college hockey that ended in only roughing double minors/10 min misconducts as opposed to fighting majors/DQ's.

[CowbellGuy]

Could be :-D

[Ben Doyle 03]

Ben F - In the NCAA (all sports) Punches = Game DQ's, that's the strict interpretation of the rule, in hockey or lacrosse the gloves do not have to come off to be considered a punch that warrants a DQ. Generally hockey officials will take the liberty to relax this rule b/c the 5min mjr/Game DQ is quite harsh. . .this is why you will mostly see double minors for roughing and/or possible a 10 min misconduct.

The clip defiantly shows Palahicky giving quite a shot to one of the Clarkson players and then Sammy gets clocked pretty good by Poapst. . .both of which deserve a Game DQ. As for the other ejection, I couldn't really tell who it was on the clip but I think the calls were fair and punished those who needed to be.

[Dart~Ben]

that may be, but I'm still surprised that fighting majors were handed out for that - I've seen much worse get only matching minors and they're right back at it 2 minutes later.

[jtwcornell91]

I'm pretty sure the WCHA used to have a special penalty called "punching" which they could give out to avoid having to hand out fighting DQs.  And I'm pretty sure I've also seen incidents in college games where players punched each other without drawing fighting penalties.

[Ben Doyle 03]

As poor a job as he may have done during the previous fifty-some minutes, I think Kotyra was trying to avoid exactly that situation. The history with these teams is not exactly G rated. Last years game at Lynah ended with the same kind of scuffle, he may have know that and did not want it to happen again. Just my $.02.;-)

[RichS]

Ben,

If he was concerned about avoiding another such affair, he should have taken control...or at least NOT lost control of the game much earlier in the game.  He had ample opportunity to make calls on both sides and did not!  By getting tough when he did... he avoided little, if anything!  And the result is that 3 guys get DQ'd at a critical point in the season...for Clarkson anyway.  Yes, the players are still responsible, but the officials are responsible for maintaining control.  As I think I posted before, my brother officiated D1 and D3 lacrosse for years...a very similar game, incl many games at Schoelkopf (sp?), btw, and he commented from almost the beginning that the officials were letting too much go and that it would get out of control at some point.

As one who played the game, albeit too many years ago, I know that players, at every level, push the envelope with officials to get away with as much as they think a guy will allow.  And they have a "book" on the refs in their minds from past experience.

When a ref lets a lot of grabbing, stick work, (including e.g., the "stay down" stick checks as some have called what Murray got away with) go uncalled, it sends the message that it will be tolerated.  So, players continue to do it, until a call "encourages" them not to.  Now, of course they know logically that fighting, or "punching" will be called but what often happens is that because they are allowed to get away with the other crap all game long, the stuff escalates, emotions run higher, and then something happens to ignite the fire and they lose control as took place last Saturday.

I was at the opposite end ...standing on the floor in front of Section O.  I saw Cook swinging sticks in front of the net with a Clarkson player I could not see (I have read both O'Flaherty and Poapst here) but was obscured from seeing the actual punches thrown.  

Someone posted on the other thread that Palahicky was clearly the instigator.  Anyone know what caused that?  For some reason, I can't view the clips.  Does the NCAA have an "instigator" penalty?  It would have made no difference in the game of course, but it seems that since the penalties for a fighting DQ are so severe, there should be an additional price to pay for instigating.

Also Ben, I think you commented that you could not tell who the second Clarkson player was who was throwing punches, Poapst being the first.  And you added that the proper people were penalized.  That's not the exact quote but it sounds inconsistent if you could not tell who the second guy was deserving the fighting DQ...at least to me.  Also, I do know that one of the points of appeal by the Clakson coaches is that O'Flaherty was not throwing punches.  Not sure if they could tell from their vantage point but I agree with the comments of others here.  From what I did see, it seems like overkill to call DQs at that point.  Too late by Kotyra!

Yes, I also have seen a number of "punching" incidents that went unpunished by a major or DQ.  For example, two years ago, Stathos, the goalie for Princeton, landed a roundhouse on a Tech skater in front of the ref after the whistle...while his team was on a power play, no less!...He got off with a 2 min unsportsmanlike conduct call.  I'll just attribute that one to the special kinships refs have with us netminders!    
:-D

Sorry for the length...tried to cover a few points here.

[CowbellGuy]

As if it weren't plastered all over eLynah enough, you need Quicktime 5.0.2 to view the clips... ::rolleyes::

[RichS]

down boy! :-D

[Al DeFlorio]

Can't disagree with anything Rich said.  On the hockeycam, you really couldn't see clearly enough to tell just how it happened.  Only clue I can add was Tufford's comment (color guy on the radio and former Cornell forward from late '60s) that O'Flaherty was "throwing butt-ends into Palahicky's jaw."  But I sure couldn't see well enough to confirm or deny, and Rich was in the front row on the same side but opposite end of the rink--about the worst place from which to see it.

Whatever it was, it's now over, and I'm guessing Clarkson will still handle UVM pretty easily.