Cornell Hockey Sightings

ugarte · October 07, 2003, 06:05:08 PM

I read another interesting fact about the Varitek - Byrnes play that I didn't process at the time: Varitek tagged Byrnes with his glove while holding the ball in his throwing hand - the tag wasn't legal! Byrnes should have touched the plate and argued the point to the ump. Byrnes didn't, so the point is moot, but it is an additional layer of weirdness to a very weird play. (Not that I expect the ump would have given Byrnes any satisfaction.)

Justice requires that the Yankees beat the Red Sox again.

dsr11 · October 07, 2003, 06:34:02 PM

[Q]Justice requires that the Yankees beat the Red Sox again.[/Q]
Ahem.....you have that backwards, it should read

"Justice requires that the Red Sox kick some Yankee ass"

:-)

gtsully · October 07, 2003, 06:55:55 PM

QuoteDan '01 wrote:

[Q]Justice requires that the Yankees beat the Red Sox again.[/Q]
Ahem.....you have that backwards, it should read

"Justice requires that the Red Sox kick some Yankee ass"

:-)

Justice requires that the A's fans (and A's appologists) stop whining and that the Yanks and Sox just get ready to play ball. This is the freakin' tuck rule all over again, and while I love watching Oakland fans squirm, there's nothing more annoying than listening to people bitch about rules that were clearly enforced correctly.

For their sake, I hope the Yanks don't end up playing the role of the Steelers this year - the cocky favorites who underestimate their opponent and the complain that "the best team didn't really win." Although I would like it if that happened... :-D

Jordan 04 · October 07, 2003, 07:48:19 PM

[q]Classic? I don't know - maybe if you're a Sox fan. Dramatic - definitely. Another vote of confidence for the Wild Card system - absolutely, but now let's make it a 7 game series.[/q]

I could go into (more) length about this, but there's no need:

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

You can't beat the sense of urgency that comes with every game in a best of 5.

me · October 07, 2003, 10:10:07 PM

I think the only thing left to argue is what constitutes "blocking the plate"? It's not as if Varitek (or any other catcher on any similar play) was lying across the plate. Byrnes could have avoided Varitek's leg with a better slide or by stepping over it.

rhovorka · October 08, 2003, 01:15:30 AM

QuoteSully '00 wrote:
For their sake, I hope the Yanks don't end up playing the role of the Steelers this year - the cocky favorites who underestimate their opponent and the complain that "the best team didn't really win."

First, as far as "cocky" I think you've identified the wrong team. Or maybe you haven't really looked at ManRam's or Lowe's acts recently. Or read the Walker/Millar quotebook from an unbiased angle. And from the war that the Sox gave the Yanks this whole season, one thing is for sure: nobody in pinstripes is underestimating them.

Second, maybe you're too young to know, but I always identify the University of Michigan hockey team as being the team who whines "the best team didn't win." I believe it was Brendan Morrison who said that in '97. And I'm sure a lot of us felt that way after the 2002 ECAC Finals. (Hey! Actual college hockey content! Hooray!) :-)

Post Edited (10-08-03 01:18)

gtsully · October 08, 2003, 09:09:35 AM

QuoteRich H '96 wrote:

First, as far as "cocky" I think you've identified the wrong team. Or maybe you haven't really looked at ManRam's or Lowe's acts recently. Or read the Walker/Millar quotebook from an unbiased angle.

You're right - I was more referring to the Steelers and to Yankee fans, not the team. I know the teams respect each other. And yeah, the Sox are talking loud, but I don't think they'll break out the crying towel and make excuses if they lose.

As for Manny and Lowe... please. Ask Tejada exactly what he did with his hands when he caught the final out of game 2. I'll give you a hint: it involved his crotch. Keep whining, Oakland - I only wish Boston could beat you in the playoffs every year.

QuoteSecond, maybe you're too young to know, but I always identify the University of Michigan hockey team as being the team who whines "the best team didn't win." I believe it was Brendan Morrison who said that in '97. And I'm sure a lot of us felt that way after the 2002 ECAC Finals. (Hey! Actual college hockey content! Hooray!) :-)

Hooray! Along the same lines, I think there will be about 100 people at the Bruins/Devils game tonight while the rest of Boston watches Game 1...

ugarte · October 08, 2003, 11:14:14 AM

QuoteSully '00 wrote:
... A's appologists ... stop whining and that the Yanks and Sox just get ready to play ball. This is the freakin' tuck rule all over again, and while I love watching Oakland fans squirm, there's nothing more annoying than listening to people bitch about rules that were clearly enforced correctly.

To call me an "A's apologist" is to just miss the point. It isn't the A's I am arguing on behalf of, the A's just happen to be the beneficiaries. You may disagree with me, but of the two of us, trust me, I am the disinterested observer.

You want to disagree with me? Fine. (I've come around on the Chavez/Varitek and Mueller/Tejada interference calls.) But don't call people that disagree with you whiners. It makes clear that "rational" isn't where you want the argument to go. You just want to take your win, and don't want anyone ruining your party.

And, seriously, the tuck rule is bullshit.

ugarte · October 08, 2003, 11:16:27 AM

Quoteme wrote:

I think the only thing left to argue is what constitutes "blocking the plate"? It's not as if Varitek (or any other catcher on any similar play) was lying across the plate. Byrnes could have avoided Varitek's leg with a better slide or by stepping over it.

"Blocking the plate" is "obstructing the path to the base" not "foreclosing any possibility that a runner can get to the base." But I know (think? hope?) that you weren't being serious.

Al DeFlorio · October 08, 2003, 11:33:22 AM

Let's look at this realistically. The ball was being thrown to Varitek by the pitcher, who was 50 or so feet away. Even a 60mph throw goes 50 feet in a half-second. What was Varitek supposed to do? Stand two yards from the plate awaiting the throw and them move over to the plate to tag the runner after he got the ball? Use some common sense.

If the pitcher was still groping around on the ground for the ball when the runner reached the plate, Varitek would have been illegally blocking it. In fact, the ball was a small fraction of a second away when the runner got there. No one--neither Varitek nor the umpire--could have known which would get there first--or else umpires could make safe/out calls before either runner or ball arrived at first base on a ground ball.

In this case the umpire was right and the runner was a dope--as was the on-deck batter.

gtsully · October 08, 2003, 11:46:58 AM

Quotebig red apple wrote:

To call me an "A's apologist" is to just miss the point. It isn't the A's I am arguing on behalf of, the A's just happen to be the beneficiaries. You may disagree with me, but of the two of us, trust me, I am the disinterested observer.

You want to disagree with me? Fine. (I've come around on the Chavez/Varitek and Mueller/Tejada interference calls.) But don't call people that disagree with you whiners. It makes clear that "rational" isn't where you want the argument to go. You just want to take your win, and don't want anyone ruining your party.

Didn't mean to single anyone out, I was just making a broad generalization. From my experience in the last few days, there seems to be a clear correlation between Yankee fans and people who think the A's got screwed (as it would be for Sox fans if the shoe was on the other foot, BTW). Everyone's a little biased, but some people (like the A's themselves) do tend to "whine" about it ad nauseum.

Bottom line is that the A's couldn't seal the deal, the Sox were resiliant enough to came back from the brink - and no, I don't want anyone ruining my party. Happy now? :-P

QuoteAnd, seriously, the tuck rule is bullshit.

That made me laugh out loud. I agree the rule isn't a good one (as most Pats fans do, believe it or not), but the right call was made, by the book.

I'm obviously not making friends here, so maybe I'll just come back after the series and either take my medicine or try not to gloat... ;-)

jtwcornell91 · October 08, 2003, 11:57:08 AM

I didn't actually see the play, but it sounds like a situation where the runner could/should have bowled over the catcher, who would never have caught the ball. Or am I missing something?

Al DeFlorio · October 08, 2003, 12:04:31 PM

QuoteSully '00 wrote:

I'm obviously not making friends here, so maybe I'll just come back after the series and either take my medicine or try not to gloat... ;-)

I dunno. You've got a friend here on Cape Cod.:-P

rhovorka · October 08, 2003, 12:14:00 PM

QuoteSully '00 wrote:
You're right - I was more referring to the Steelers and to Yankee fans, not the team.

No doubt there will be whining from some Yankee fans if they lose. It happened in 2001, it happened in 2002. (But don't expect it from me.) Just like there will be whining from some sox fans if they lose. One pet peeve of mine is the lumping of a fan-base into one generalized entity: "All Yankee fans are cocky, arrogant, loudmouths" "All Red Sox fans are whiny losers." "All Dodger fans leave after the 7th innning." "All Colgate fans are drunken fratboys." "All Cornell fans swear every other word." I happen to be a Yankee fan who tries to be respectful when they win, and I'll take my lumps when they lose. And I promise not to gloat if my team wins, because really, losing to the Yankees is the ultimate punishment for Sox fans. :-D

QuoteI'm obviously not making friends here, so maybe I'll just come back after the series and either take my medicine or try not to gloat... ;-)

Well, personally, Sully, I'll complement you on your level of decorum and intelligence in this discussion. There are some Sox fans who just sit there and scream "Yankees Suck!" in my face whenever I try to get into a serious discussion about The Rivalry. Best of luck in not suffering a nervous breakdown this week to you, and if you'll excuse me, I have to find my heart medication myself. :-)

Post Edited (10-08-03 12:15)

ugarte · October 08, 2003, 12:33:38 PM

QuoteAl DeFlorio wrote:

Let's look at this realistically. The ball was being thrown to Varitek by the pitcher, who was 50 or so feet away. Even a 60mph throw goes 50 feet in a half-second. What was Varitek supposed to do? Stand two yards from the plate awaiting the throw and them move over to the plate to tag the runner after he got the ball? Use some common sense.

Come on Al, you can't mean this. Varitek didn't have to "stand two yards away" or even two feet away. He didn't have to stand two INCHES away. He could have straddled the plate until he had the ball and been in position to drop his leg to block the plate and to make the tag without obstructing the runner illegally.

Everytime I try to get out, THEY PULL ME BACK IN...