Fencing

[Weder]

I know nothing about fencing but just noticed that the team is 19-0 and ranked No. 9 in the country. Cornell only has women's fencing and NCAA fencing is a coed sport, so does that mean that Cornell's best hopes are to compete for individual national championships but it isn't in the picture in the team competition?

https://cornellbigred.com/news/2022/1/23/-9-fencing-improves-to-18-0-after-seven-wins-in-philadelphia.aspx

[Robb]

I know nothing about fencing but just noticed that the team is 19-0 and ranked No. 9 in the country. Cornell only has women's fencing and NCAA fencing is a coed sport, so does that mean that Cornell's best hopes are to compete for individual national championships but it isn't in the picture in the team competition?

https://cornellbigred.com/news/2022/1/23/-9-fencing-improves-to-18-0-after-seven-wins-in-philadelphia.aspx

No, even though the men and women typically travel together (when a U has both, grumble, grumble), they qualify separately as men's and women's teams, and then individuals can qualify as well.

(I would have been the #1 epee fencer my senior year....had the team not ben cut the summer before).

[Swampy]

I know nothing about fencing but just noticed that the team is 19-0 and ranked No. 9 in the country. Cornell only has women's fencing and NCAA fencing is a coed sport, so does that mean that Cornell's best hopes are to compete for individual national championships but it isn't in the picture in the team competition?

https://cornellbigred.com/news/2022/1/23/-9-fencing-improves-to-18-0-after-seven-wins-in-philadelphia.aspx

No, even though the men and women typically travel together (when a U has both, grumble, grumble), they qualify separately as men's and women's teams, and then individuals can qualify as well.

(I would have been the #1 epee fencer my senior year....had the team not ben cut the summer before).

That sucks!

Why did they cut it? I remember when the men's fencing coach was a celebrity on campus.

[billhoward]

Men's fencing and men's gymnastics got the axe after 1992-1993, I believe it was.

[David Harding]

I know nothing about fencing but just noticed that the team is 19-0 and ranked No. 9 in the country. Cornell only has women's fencing and NCAA fencing is a coed sport, so does that mean that Cornell's best hopes are to compete for individual national championships but it isn't in the picture in the team competition?

https://cornellbigred.com/news/2022/1/23/-9-fencing-improves-to-18-0-after-seven-wins-in-philadelphia.aspx

No, even though the men and women typically travel together (when a U has both, grumble, grumble), they qualify separately as men's and women's teams, and then individuals can qualify as well.

(I would have been the #1 epee fencer my senior year....had the team not ben cut the summer before).

That sucks!

Why did they cut it? I remember when the men's fencing coach was a celebrity on campus.

They could cut men's football and free up resources to fund men's and women's sports in a more balanced way.

[Robb]

I know nothing about fencing but just noticed that the team is 19-0 and ranked No. 9 in the country. Cornell only has women's fencing and NCAA fencing is a coed sport, so does that mean that Cornell's best hopes are to compete for individual national championships but it isn't in the picture in the team competition?

https://cornellbigred.com/news/2022/1/23/-9-fencing-improves-to-18-0-after-seven-wins-in-philadelphia.aspx

No, even though the men and women typically travel together (when a U has both, grumble, grumble), they qualify separately as men's and women's teams, and then individuals can qualify as well.

(I would have been the #1 epee fencer my senior year....had the team not ben cut the summer before).

That sucks!

Why did they cut it? I remember when the men's fencing coach was a celebrity on campus.

Budget.  Though IIRC, it got out that the decisions were made at an athletic dept off-site meeting that cost as much as supporting the fencing team for a year.  Ick.

They tried to cut men's and women's gymnastics and fencing, but the women got together and were putting together a Title IX suit and the university caved and reinstated the women's teams.  Which meant that they still had to maintain a fencing salle and have a full-time coach, so they probably only saved ~20% of what they had planned.  Oh, and they added softball at the same time, so in the end, I'm skeptical that the dept budget was actually reduced at all.

[billhoward]

They tried to cut men's and women's gymnastics and fencing, but the women got together and were putting together a Title IX suit and the university caved and reinstated the women's teams.  Which meant that they still had to maintain a fencing salle and have a full-time coach, so they probably only saved ~20% of what they had planned.  Oh, and they added softball at the same time, so in the end, I'm skeptical that the dept budget was actually reduced at all.

If you want equal participation between men and women in sports, football throws off the numbers by about 100. Men's fencing and gymnastics may have been sacrificed to get closer to equal, and adding softball offset baseball. Big schools say football brings in lots of money, so please exempt us, but the money argument probably doesn't work in the Ivies. I believe wrestling has been dropped at a lot of schools where it wasn't a priority and it helped parity.

[marty]

I believe wrestling has been dropped at a lot of schools where it wasn't a priority and it helped parity.

At the time that those schools dropped wrestling it was thought that it would help the schools that remained,  like Cornell

[Weder]

IIRC, a lot of big football schools added women's rowing in the late 1990s and early 2000s in part because it was a way to even out participation. Some of those schools have since added men's rowing as well.

[billhoward]

To even out with football, you'd need eighty-eights with cox.

[Robb]

To even out with football, you'd need eighty-eights with cox.

lol.  With a boat that big, maybe 5 or 6 coxes!

[nshapiro]

You would never have open water between boats.  If you are trailing by a length, you are out of it.

[billhoward]

Yeesh, this thread is getting so long, maybe it should've been named Fencing 2021-22 and then another next fall. It could also be called Memory Lane.

[Weder]

Cornell went 13-0 this weekend, including wins over No. 2 Notre Dame and several other ranked teams, and is 32-0 heading into the Ivy championships. Cornell is ranked No. 4, but Princeton is No. 1 and Columbia is No. 3.

https://cornellbigred.com/news/2022/2/6/fencing-completes-perfect-run-at-northwestern-duals-improves-to-32-0.aspx

[Swampy]

Cornell went 13-0 this weekend, including wins over No. 2 Notre Dame and several other ranked teams, and is 32-0 heading into the Ivy championships. Cornell is ranked No. 4, but Princeton is No. 1 and Columbia is No. 3.

https://cornellbigred.com/news/2022/2/6/fencing-completes-perfect-run-at-northwestern-duals-improves-to-32-0.aspx

This is hardly a fair comparison:

That victory, and the two it would add later in the day, surpassed the 1970 unbeaten, untied NCAA championship men's ice hockey team that finished 29-0-0 for the most consecutive wins to begin a season by a Big Red varsity team.

If a team runs the table, it's still doing the best it can. If another sport has more contests, then to my mind it can only match an earlier unbeaten, untied team; it can't outdo the earlier team, simply because it's in a different sport with more contests.

This being said, kudos to the Fencing team -- Good luck at the Ivy's next weekend!