Future Coaching?

[LynahFaithful]

I like Bennett.  I like his intensity, I like his style of play, I like his recruits, who have been great academically.  I love it that RPI foams at the mouth at the mere mention of his name.  He'd do fine here- and would come if the price was right because of the fan support, donor support, bigger rink, and better brand. I'd love  to see him here.  Don't know if he could live with Andy Noel, though.

As an eastern New York native with many college hockey fans back home, I hear close to nothing negative about Bennett.  I also like his intensity, his never-satisfied mindset, and his ability to produce such great teams for a ~2500 person college.  In his first three years as head coach he won three ECAC titles, goes to a couple of frozen fours, an NCAA regional final, wins a national championship, and has a 19-2 postseason record.  Last year was obviously the worst year in his career as head coach, but the recent success he's had as a coach surely isn't minimized.  My understanding is that he targets recruiting the guys that are not as highly sought out by other schools and emphasizes very sound/fundamental hockey.  RPI has truly had their hands full with him at the helm because of all of the success Union's had (especially in the "rivalry" among the two schools).  

I feel the same way as TimV - If the price was right and there was enough support, I would love to see him here at Cornell.  With a more historic program, being a better school, and with the ability to recruit better players, I feel as though he would thrive here.  Can someone fill me in with what the issue with Andy Noel might be?  I don't know much about him as an AD.

[Trotsky]

And when you say radical change, what do you have in mind?  Maybe give an example of a coach that would mean a radical change and explain how?

When I say radical change I mean an entirely new philosophy.  This also likely means bringing in someone from outside the program since Cornellians of the past 20 years both self-selected and then were trained in Mike's style.

I had nobody in particular in mind, but perhaps a Keith Allain type of coach.  Yale was firewagon when they won the title; now they have become a much more defensive-oriented team given their personnel. I would like to see that flexibility, where you go get the best players you can and then craft your system to their strengths, rather than having a set system and then looking for players who can plug in.

However, I love Mike (PBUH) and if he wants to stay 20 more years AFAIC we owe him that much.  He saved Cornell hockey and we should never forget that.

[TimV]

Andy- perhaps under pressure from above- fired the successful alumnus coach of his most successful men's sport.  I don't trust that Andy would handle a post-game altercation with opposing players and coaches  (short version) and (long version) as patiently as the Union AD.

And before one of you jokers suggests it, although Seth Appert may soon become available, he's not the offensive messiah we need.

[LynahFaithful]

And when you say radical change, what do you have in mind?  Maybe give an example of a coach that would mean a radical change and explain how?

When I say radical change I mean an entirely new philosophy.  This also likely means bringing in someone from outside the program since Cornellians of the past 20 years both self-selected and then were trained in Mike's style.

I had nobody in particular in mind, but perhaps a Keith Allain type of coach.  Yale was firewagon when they won the title; now they have become a much more defensive-oriented team given their personnel. I would like to see that flexibility, where you go get the best players you can and then craft your system to their strengths, rather than having a set system and then looking for players who can plug in.

However, I love Mike (PBUH) and if he wants to stay 20 more years AFAIC we owe him that much.  He saved Cornell hockey and we should never forget that.

Oh, I see.  I believe deep-down that Rick Bennett would be able to bring this "entirely new philosophy" you speak of to the rink.  Look at the guys he recruits and mediocre facilities/setup he's currently equipped with at Union and it's amazing (to me at least) all of the success on the national level he's had the last few years. He takes what he's got and turns it into something great.  

Andy- perhaps under pressure from above- fired the successful alumnus coach of his most successful men's sport.  I don't trust that Andy would handle a post-game altercation with opposing players and coaches  (short version) and (long version) as patiently as the Union AD.

And before one of you jokers suggests it, although Seth Appert may soon become available, he's not the offensive messiah we need.

Oh, yeah... I forgot about that.  I believe firing DeLuca (over hazing that was going on among the lacrosse team's players) was a LARGE mistake and many of us are beginning to realize that recently.  I believe that should have been handled more with the players than through the coach.  I also recognize that he might not tolerate post-game altercations well, but look at how he tolerated Schafer's not-so-nice comments regarding Quinnipiac last year.  I believe that if Noel wants to have a pretty successful hockey program and Bennett wants to be at the head of the Cornell team, the two will make it work.

[ursusminor]

If we were to look laterally, who would we consider from other ECAC (or Hockey East) programs?  Is it critical that the coach is a Cornell alum?  If so, is Ken Dryden another option or is he invested enough in Canadian politics that he's out of the question?  I also mentioned Rick Bennett (Union HC) and I didn't get much of a reaction back...

I think Bennett's just fine where he is.  I don't know why he'd take the job.  (Much like Leaman at Providence).  Even though Union is more exclusive than most schools, it's still easier to get a guy in there than at an Ivy.

I like Bennett.  I like his intensity, I like his style of play, I like his recruits, who have been great academically.  I love it that RPI foams at the mouth at the mere mention of his name.  He'd do fine here- and would come if the price was right because of the fan support, donor support, bigger rink, and better brand. I'd love  to see him here.  Don't know if he could live with Andy Noel, though.

Where is the foams-at-the-mouth emoticon?

Personally, I am ashamed to live on the same planet as Bennett. I was also ashamed to be member of the same species as he, but I heard a DNA test proved he is a Neanderthal. :-D

[RichH]

In his first three years as head coach he won three ECAC titles, goes to a couple of frozen fours, an NCAA regional final, wins a national championship, and has a 19-2 postseason record.  Last year was obviously the worst year in his career as head coach

Right there. Let's think about that. His first three years, he wins ECAC titles. He was handed a team that had won 20 games each of the previous 2 seasons. Now his 4th year in, (cough cough a full 4-year recruiting cycle) Union barely finishes above .500. Leaman, the guy who had built up Union to that powerhouse level, then takes over an 8-18-8 team and in the same 4-year period turns them into National Champions. Who has the golden touch?

I'm not saying Bennett is a bad coach. I just think he was handed the keys to the kitchen when the pot was already boiling. (Good god, that's terrible. Is that even a real metaphor?)  Coaching is about on-ice performance AND recruiting. Let's see Bennett have success with his own recruits.

Contrast this with 1990s-era Schafer. He took a team that had won an aggregate total of 25 games over three seasons and immediately reeled off two league crowns. Really, it was out of nowhere. But then his first full recruiting cycle turned in a 12-15-4 season (this is where Bennett is now). That was his last losing season for 14 years. Bennett could do this too, and having a national title under your belt has to be a wonderful recruiting tool. I'm curious to see.

[TimV]

Hi Ralph!

(The rest of you guys see what I mean?)::banana::

[Jim Hyla]

If we were to look laterally, who would we consider from other ECAC (or Hockey East) programs?  Is it critical that the coach is a Cornell alum?  If so, is Ken Dryden another option or is he invested enough in Canadian politics that he's out of the question?  I also mentioned Rick Bennett (Union HC) and I didn't get much of a reaction back...

I think Bennett's just fine where he is.  I don't know why he'd take the job.  (Much like Leaman at Providence).  Even though Union is more exclusive than most schools, it's still easier to get a guy in there than at an Ivy.

I like Bennett.  I like his intensity, I like his style of play, I like his recruits, who have been great academically.  I love it that RPI foams at the mouth at the mere mention of his name.  He'd do fine here- and would come if the price was right because of the fan support, donor support, bigger rink, and better brand. I'd love  to see him here.  Don't know if he could live with Andy Noel, though.

Where is the foams-at-the-mouth emoticon?

Personally, I am ashamed to live on the same planet as Bennett. I was also ashamed to be member of the same species as he, but I heard a DNA test proved he is a Neanderthal. :-D

5/5 Stars for saying it.

I don't trust that Andy would handle a post-game altercation with opposing players and coaches (short version) and (long version) as patiently as the Union AD.

I totally disagree. What Bennett deserved much more than what he got. I mean, come on, going on the ice and punching a player. I would have had zero tolerance for that and fired him. I only hope that they told him that any further physical altercation, anywhere and any time, means he's automatically let go.

He'd do fine here- and would come if the price was right because of the fan support, donor support, bigger rink, and better brand.

Do you have some inside info that let's you know that he'd come here? Otherwise I take this with the "grain of salt" that it deserves.

If so, is Ken Dryden another option or is he invested enough in Canadian politics that he's out of the question?

The real thing is that he's so totally uninvested in Cornell hockey, that it's out of the question.

[TimV]

Wow.  I'm duly chastised.

Jim- please read back over the thread-  I didn't initiate the Bennett idea, and have absolutely no inside info.  I just commented on it when the original poster expressed that no one responded to him/her.  I did this based on Bennett's body of work aside from his incident with RPI, which I am willing to look at as an aberration unworthy of the vitriol the RPI fans heap on him in a monumental display of false sanctimony.  These are the same people (Not you, Ralph) who blame the victim or claim faking when one of their guys injures someone with a vicious boarding from behind.

And personally, I take EVERYTHING here with a grain of salt.  Maybe two grains. So should you.

[Towerroad]

Wow.  I'm duly chastised.

Jim- please read back over the thread-  I didn't initiate the Bennett idea, and have absolutely no inside info.  I just commented on it when the original poster expressed that no one responded to him/her.  I did this based on Bennett's body of work aside from his incident with RPI, which I am willing to look at as an aberration unworthy of the vitriol the RPI fans heap on him in a monumental display of false sanctimony.  These are the same people (Not you, Ralph) who blame the victim or claim faking when one of their guys injures someone with a vicious boarding from behind.

And personally, I take EVERYTHING here with a grain of salt.  Maybe two grains. So should you.

Maybe a truck load of salt. This is a forum for idle speculation and conjecture, that is what makes is so enjoyable.

[RichH]

Maybe a truck load of salt. This is a forum for idle speculation and conjecture, that is what makes is so enjoyable.

Nah. I'm here for the jokes.

[LynahFaithful]

If we were to look laterally, who would we consider from other ECAC (or Hockey East) programs?  Is it critical that the coach is a Cornell alum?  If so, is Ken Dryden another option or is he invested enough in Canadian politics that he's out of the question?  I also mentioned Rick Bennett (Union HC) and I didn't get much of a reaction back...

I think Bennett's just fine where he is.  I don't know why he'd take the job.  (Much like Leaman at Providence).  Even though Union is more exclusive than most schools, it's still easier to get a guy in there than at an Ivy.

I like Bennett.  I like his intensity, I like his style of play, I like his recruits, who have been great academically.  I love it that RPI foams at the mouth at the mere mention of his name.  He'd do fine here- and would come if the price was right because of the fan support, donor support, bigger rink, and better brand. I'd love  to see him here.  Don't know if he could live with Andy Noel, though.

Where is the foams-at-the-mouth emoticon?

Personally, I am ashamed to live on the same planet as Bennett. I was also ashamed to be member of the same species as he, but I heard a DNA test proved he is a Neanderthal. :-D

Why don't you like Bennett?  What's the strong dislike rooted in?  

In his first three years as head coach he won three ECAC titles, goes to a couple of frozen fours, an NCAA regional final, wins a national championship, and has a 19-2 postseason record.  Last year was obviously the worst year in his career as head coach

Right there. Let's think about that. His first three years, he wins ECAC titles. He was handed a team that had won 20 games each of the previous 2 seasons. Now his 4th year in, (cough cough a full 4-year recruiting cycle) Union barely finishes above .500. Leaman, the guy who had built up Union to that powerhouse level, then takes over an 8-18-8 team and in the same 4-year period turns them into National Champions. Who has the golden touch?

I'm not saying Bennett is a bad coach. I just think he was handed the keys to the kitchen when the pot was already boiling. (Good god, that's terrible. Is that even a real metaphor?)  Coaching is about on-ice performance AND recruiting. Let's see Bennett have success with his own recruits.

Contrast this with 1990s-era Schafer. He took a team that had won an aggregate total of 25 games over three seasons and immediately reeled off two league crowns. Really, it was out of nowhere. But then his first full recruiting cycle turned in a 12-15-4 season (this is where Bennett is now). That was his last losing season for 14 years. Bennett could do this too, and having a national title under your belt has to be a wonderful recruiting tool. I'm curious to see.

Valid point, however going by the 4-year recruiting cycle theory you brought up, technically the first season of having ALL his own recruits will be this season.  At the end of this season, I think then we can analyze his recruiting capability under the 4-year cycle  concept.  Also, i would like to reiterate that despite having mediocre recruiting classes, Bennett has done very well with the guys he's received, which impresses me a lot.  Taking that with "a truck load of salt", the next few years will be very telling of his ability to produce results with guys that (solely) he has recruited and brought in and I personally believe that he will have continued and sustained sucess.  

I sense people going both ways on considering Bennett and people leaning more towards no regarding Nieuwendyk... but who else would be the answer?

[TimV]

If we were to look laterally, who would we consider from other ECAC (or Hockey East) programs?  Is it critical that the coach is a Cornell alum?  If so, is Ken Dryden another option or is he invested enough in Canadian politics that he's out of the question?  I also mentioned Rick Bennett (Union HC) and I didn't get much of a reaction back...

I think Bennett's just fine where he is.  I don't know why he'd take the job.  (Much like Leaman at Providence).  Even though Union is more exclusive than most schools, it's still easier to get a guy in there than at an Ivy.

I like Bennett.  I like his intensity, I like his style of play, I like his recruits, who have been great academically.  I love it that RPI foams at the mouth at the mere mention of his name.  He'd do fine here- and would come if the price was right because of the fan support, donor support, bigger rink, and better brand. I'd love  to see him here.  Don't know if he could live with Andy Noel, though.

Where is the foams-at-the-mouth emoticon?

Personally, I am ashamed to live on the same planet as Bennett. I was also ashamed to be member of the same species as he, but I heard a DNA test proved he is a Neanderthal. :-D

Why don't you like Bennett?  What's the strong dislike rooted in?

Top three reasons for SOME RPI fans:

1. He has RPI's number;
2. He has RPI's number;
3. He has RPI's number.

Although many blame The Altercation  to avoid dealing with the actual reasons.::screwy::;-)

[ursusminor]

If we were to look laterally, who would we consider from other ECAC (or Hockey East) programs?  Is it critical that the coach is a Cornell alum?  If so, is Ken Dryden another option or is he invested enough in Canadian politics that he's out of the question?  I also mentioned Rick Bennett (Union HC) and I didn't get much of a reaction back...

I think Bennett's just fine where he is.  I don't know why he'd take the job.  (Much like Leaman at Providence).  Even though Union is more exclusive than most schools, it's still easier to get a guy in there than at an Ivy.

I like Bennett.  I like his intensity, I like his style of play, I like his recruits, who have been great academically.  I love it that RPI foams at the mouth at the mere mention of his name.  He'd do fine here- and would come if the price was right because of the fan support, donor support, bigger rink, and better brand. I'd love  to see him here.  Don't know if he could live with Andy Noel, though.

Where is the foams-at-the-mouth emoticon?

Personally, I am ashamed to live on the same planet as Bennett. I was also ashamed to be member of the same species as he, but I heard a DNA test proved he is a Neanderthal. :-D

Why don't you like Bennett?  What's the strong dislike rooted in?

Top three reasons for SOME RPI fans:

1. He has RPI's number;
2. He has RPI's number;
3. He has RPI's number.

Although many blame The Altercation  to avoid dealing with the actual reasons.::screwy::;-)

RPI did defeat Union in both ECAC contests last season.

[TimV]

Why don't you like Bennett?  What's the strong dislike rooted in?

Top three reasons for SOME RPI fans:

1. He has RPI's number;
2. He has RPI's number;
3. He has RPI's number.

Although many blame The Altercation  to avoid dealing with the actual reasons.::screwy::;-)

RPI did defeat Union in both ECAC contests last season.

Yep. Last year was a relatively good year for the Tute v. Union.  Not as good as implied in your well-worded post, since the record for all games vs. Union was 2-1, with one of those W's coming in overtime and total goals being 11-10 your favor.

Ralph- I can't match up with your knowledge of RPI and college hockey in general - but correct me if I'm wrong:

Bennett's record as head coach for ALL GAMES v RPI:  11-3.  Total goals: Union 55 RPI 32.

If you include his years as assistant coach (2005-6 to 2010-11) you can add 10 wins, 3 losses and 3 ties to his record v RPI.

Looks like Bennett has your number to me.

I wish we  had that record - against both of you.:-/